Flashbang question

[Deleted member 6930]

Ummm... Well anything is possible.

^-^

 

[sheikyerbouti]

Having taken the CHAP program at one point in time (had to to teach) I will defer to your correction on the appropriate spelling of the acronym but all the kids I worked with called it "CHAPS".

I hate to bring up the bad news but when was cadets considered safe? It is only in recent times that we have been subject to the vagaries of a fully 'litigious' society which has prompted us to re-examine our responsibilities and change our perspectives. The Cadet system was introduced as a means to produce high quality trade ready recruits for the Canadian forces, it is only in the last decade or so that we have seen a complete denial of the original roles of the Cadet system.

Having experienced both the good and the bad of the transition phase, I can honestly relate that the old standards were not only higher but more driven to produce results that were advantageous to both the CF and the young they took under their guidance. Sure it might have been mildly dangerous to expose us to potential hazards but how does this conflict with the aim of producing  a high calibre recruit that is well grounded in the history and traditions of the forces.

Now before anyone brings up the Child soldier issue, why is it that our allies still conduct enhanced training with their Cadets? Unless of course you mean to imply that our young are not up to the standards of their British counterparts.
 
I very much disagree with your assertion (shadow) that all of the training we Cadets used to receive was cancelled due to safety issues. The fact of the matter is that the CF went through a period of extreme budgetary pressures (post-Conservatives and during the Liberal tenure) which forced it to make many decisions that are only now being fully realized.


P.S. Did the procedures change with respect to a cadet reporting potential misdoings by their colleagues or their superiors? My understanding was that a cadet was now encouraged to speak up as opposed to the old way of beating the rat into submission or quietly asking the malfeasant to resign before holy hell broke loose, or even better, letting it lie for decades only to reappear in the form of some kiddy fiddling lawsuit.

 

[Old Ranger]

Its a youth organisation, why should it not be safe? Agreed!

The current cadet system was NEVER designed to form new recruits. The old Boys Brigades and whatnot were, but cadets as we know it (from after WW2 on) was never designed with that as the primary idea.
Again, wrong. Cadets does not produce recruits for the CF. Yes, they do. It's in their primary roles/purpose.

Cadets should NEVER be issued pyro, ever. The idea scares me.   Agreed, but not to many things scare me

Ben

 

[sheikyerbouti]

hey Piper,

check out www.armycadethistory.com/Main_page.htm

or www.cadets.ca/about-nous/vision/vision_e.asp

for two credible sources which contradict your assertion.

As a long time side drummer I suggest you save the hot air for your pipe bag (pipe band crack) ;D.

I don't disagree with the assertion that cadets should be safe but it must be recognized that people don't join to learn how to polish boots or how to shoot a daisy air rifle. Alot has changed due to budgetary pressures, some of it good, most of it bad especially when it comes to relevant training.

My 2 cents, not trying to start something here.

 

[Trinity]

OldRanger

Are you saying that cadets is used to produce soldiers?

I would at one time agree with you, but after getting berated
at the highest level of officers once at Blackdown for referring to
the cadets as "soldiers".. I was quickly informed of their new doctrine.

It is a youth organsation designed to produced leadership skills in
todays youth.  They help shape the youth of tomorrow into something
positive.. (apparently)

So I was informed (very promptly... almost while standing at attention!)

And the rate of cadets that cross into regs or res I heard was very small,
definitely NOT worth the funding we put into it. 

But ... I still love you.. 

 

[Pea]

Trinity,

I am guessing it was CIC officers at blackdown that told you this.

I can't help but wonder why the 3 aims of the cadet program are:

Develop leadership and good citizenship
Promote physical fitness
Stimulate an interest in the three elements of the Canadian Forces

I understand that this is a small part of cadets, so in turn does not constitute "recruiting for the forces, or training them to join the Military." However, I do think that cadets does boost recruiting into the forces. Sure it may not be a huge number of people, but every little can help. So, I think it is worth the funding they are given.

 

[MJP]

And the rate of cadets that cross into regs or res I heard was very small,
definitely NOT worth the funding we put into it.  

I think the crossover is better than just small, exact numbers are hard to pin down though.  Most people don't talk about their cadet experiences (usually) and its not like they fill out a form or have some kind of special ID.  Most people I know with cadet experience have said it has done nothing but help them in their military careers.



BTW sorry Card no LAVs downtown today or tomorrow we took that out of the training for us.  Get back to work.

 

[Pea]

I think the crossover is better than just small, exact numbers are hard to pin down though.   Most people don't talk about their cadet experiences (usually) and its not like they fill out a form or have some kind of special ID.   Most people I know with cadet experience have said it has done nothing but help them in their military careers.



BTW sorry Card no LAVs downtown today or tomorrow we took that out of the training for us.   Get back to work.

Thanks for backing me up on that one MJP. I am not sure of the numbers either. However, I have met many reg force and reservists that were once a cadet. They all say the same thing, cadets has helped them.


And that's ok about the LAV. I have been nuts at work today anyways. Which reminds me, I must get back to the craziness I call work now.  ;D

 

[Deleted member 6930]

Having taken the CHAP program at one point in time (had to to teach) I will defer to your correction on the appropriate spelling of the acronym but all the kids I worked with called it "CHAPS".

Agreed but it still is not correct ... (thats what I said ... I think) (BTW Also UHRA qualified)

I very much disagree with your assertion (shadow) that all of the training we Cadets used to receive was cancelled due to safety issues.

I will have to re-read my original post but I don't believe I ever said that all the training cadet use to receive was cancelled. I know for a fact that pyros was discontinued because it was/it unsafe. Most CIC instructors are not qualified to use them so how can they be expected to teach people use?

In the Atlantic region ... Down hill ski trips were cancelled because someone was injured on a cadet ski trip. again ... Safety issue. I'm sure there are other things as well (indoor ranges for one)

P.S. Did the procedures change with respect to a cadet reporting potential misdoings by their colleagues or their superiors? My understanding was that a cadet was now encouraged to speak up as opposed to the old way of beating the rat into submission or quietly asking the malfeasant to resign before holy hell broke loose, or even better, letting it lie for decades only to reappear in the form of some kiddy fiddling lawsuit.

You are correct. If a cadet believes something/anything is not "right" they are encouraged to "tell someone"

 

[Old Ranger]

OldRanger

Are you saying that cadets is used to produce soldiers?Yes, we need little people too!

I would at one time agree with you, but after getting berated
at the highest level of officers once at Blackdown for referring to
the cadets as "soldiers".. I was quickly informed of their new doctrine.I'll remember that for next year, and see if I get corrected...LOL

And the rate of cadets that cross into regs or res I heard was very small, Actually , I was 6', 240lbs at 12yrs
definitely NOT worth the funding we put into it.   But all the Army guy stuff is cool when your 12!

But ... I still love you..   Red light....you!  I told you I would hook you up with some Nurses if you need. ;D

Cheers,

Ben

 

[sheikyerbouti]

I feel I should clarify my position with respect to safety and its' role in changing Cadet training.

I was a Seaforth cadet for a few years and the differences in training from my first year in, to my last year in, were  a night and day comparison. The first day I walked into the armouries to get a feel of the place I was escorted to the indoor range and given a weapon familiarization. My second day there I got to shoot some rounds on the .22 and got to watch the Res guys work with something bigger.

We had 2 annual shoots on the FN plus twice a week on the .22's, 5 or 6 full weekend outdoor exercises (some with pyro),at least 2 indoor ex's, band practice, drill team, rappelling on our own tower, cooperation with the Regiment and at least 2 field trips a year to Vancouver Island. There were also other goodies that can't be divulged but suffice to say there were no locks on the liquor cabinets.

On my last year in there were no outdoor exercises, the Pat bay band camp was done with, we had no drivers from the Res, our number of officers was cut, we had 3 or 4 indoor exercises, did no parades, didn't shoot anything, no drill comp, no more kilts issued except to the band and very senior NCO's and to top it all off there was no more hot food because the only thing we were allowed to eat was old IMP's.

I personally feel it was budgetary pressures which resulted in most of these changes.
BTW Apologies for  my contribution to this thread getting off course but at least it has aroused some good discussion.

 

[Burrows]

I was wondering something....I was on a FTX to Borden...and while sleeping we were all given 1 flashbang......One of the recruits that was with us decided to try his flashbang out in our hoochie(tent).....i was on night supervision and i heard the flashbang go off....me and the acting WO ran to check what happened....and when we got there the entire tent had burns on their faces.....and the thing that puzzles me is that....I've been hit with a flashbang...and never got any burns......was there something defective with them?


If someone could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated ???

Your officers are total idiots if they gave cadets pyrotechnics.  If you're making this up you're an idiot.  Either way, someone is at fault.

If it was your officers they should be charged.

Locked.

 

[Burrows]

Also change your profile IAW Cadet regulations.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I shouldn't be reading threads this late at night. But, since I happen to be familiar with the Training Safety manual I just wanted to clarify some incorrect data issued in the early postings of this thread regarding Thunderflashes and safe distances:

Safety distance is 5 feet.

4 feet.

OPERATIONAL TRAINING - TRAINING SAFETY
B-GL-381-001/TS-000 - Training Safety
Issued on the Authority of the chief of Land Staff
OPI: DAT 3-6-3 2003-01-15
CH 6 2003-08 -28

137. Thunderflashes. Thunderflashes shall
NOT be thrown within 5 m of personnel, and 25 m
of volatile material, equipment and vehicles.

Link to Army Electronic Library source for this publication: http://armyapp.dnd.ca/ael/publications_ns.asp?series=380_e


(Edited to add publication number and link.)

 

[Spr.Earl]

T-Flash's will take your hand off believe it or not.
But again what were cadets doing with Pyro?