Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[Jacky Tar]

CF members should get absolutely nothing for passing the FORCE test.

Ditto. It's a requirement of service, not an extra pat on the back. What you 'get' is not being released for inability to meet universality of service.

 

[Nemo888]

There should be more than minimum standard. ie Marksman badge and pay.

This everyone gets the same prize shite is counterproductive.

 

[ekpiper]

CF members should get absolutely nothing for passing the FORCE test.

IIRC, it was for a potential increased level, not a base pass. It was also mentioned that the times would very likely be tightened after the first year and the opportunity to evaluate results, taking into account gender, age, weight, etc. to determine a true minimum standard.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Did the FORCE test. Nothing amazingly hard and I felt it was a much better indicator of actual tasks CAF personnel could/would be expected to do.  There were two female PSP staff, about 110lbs each, and they demonstrated all of the tasks without issue. That helped morale.

As well, anyone who fails the sprints, loaded walk/unloaded run, or casualty drag is given a second attempt to complete that task without penalty.  (Failing the sandbag lift, however, is an instant fail.) This policy will be permanently in place for the FORCE test, which is a welcome surprise.

Flamboyantly throwing your arms up during the sprints and touching the line then getting down behind it were stressed time and time again.

So in all, don't sweat it, prepare for it, ask questions, and pay attention to the demonstrations to avoid mistakes.

'Flamboyant' eh? Sounds suspiciously like 'Prancercize' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjJJs-sFAqU

 

[upandatom]

And I agree.

Thats not what I meant, not a reward for doing the minimum, as this new test is very minimalistic. The old system, you recieved a pat on the back, some recognition, the PER point, and a year exempt from it.

Thats all I was saying, a way to promote physical fitness through a standard test, that if you excel on that test.
All aspects of military have that set up, Top Candidate, best shot, marksman awards, etc.

Im not combat arms, I understand that combat arms require top physical shape, but I am sigs, and I have seen some very low end fitness levels, (ie one particular tech falling out of a COs run not even 500m in, but he could "pass" a BFT, and I have never seen him complete an express, or for that fact, keep up with a very easy pt session)

Dont get me wrong, I like the fact that, "we have this standard now, everyone must accomplish it, regardless of age, sex, trade, element" Especially with the, "no pass, no merit board for you"

 

[McG]

I am not opposed to a higher incentive standard that rewards pers who go well beyond the minimum, but that reward should not be an exception from doing the test the next year.

 

[upandatom]

I am not opposed to a higher incentive standard that rewards pers who go well beyond the minimum, but that reward should not be an exception from doing the test the next year.

Easy enough, the PER point worked for most, and it is pretty rare that someone that gets an exempt fails the year after unless for medical reasons

 

[Tank Troll]

Passing the BFT did the same thing with the PER except there was no exempt................unless you were a support trade and went base side the next year. Which comes back to the original point about not needing to be in great shape to pass the BFT every year and get that extra point.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Did the FORCE test and I'm surprised at how long it took to administer start to finish. It took over an hour and a half for 8 of us to get through the test with 3 PSP staff conducting it.

The test seems decent considering what it's target audience and goal is.  The worst part of the test for me was doing the warmup (pulled something doing stupid lunges) and going full retard to try to get the best times. 

I've seen some soldiers pass the BFT who I'm quite sure would not be able to pass the FORCE test.  Of course some people I'm sure would do good on the FORCE test but bomb the BFT..

One of the PSP demonstrators looked really fit but she started struggling with the sandbag lift after the second lift- I can see it being tricker for someone shorter/smaller.

The 287lb sandbag contraption we had to drag seemed like a safer and more realistic test then the firemans carry.

 

[armyvern]

Did the FORCE test and I'm surprised at how long it took to administer start to finish. It took over an hour and a half for 8 of us to get through the test with 3 PSP staff conducting it.

The test seems decent considering what it's target audience and goal is.  The worst part of the test for me was doing the warmup (pulled something doing stupid lunges) and going full retard to try to get the best times. 

I've seen some soldiers pass the BFT who I'm quite sure would not be able to pass the FORCE test.  Of course some people I'm sure would do good on the FORCE test but bomb the BFT..

One of the PSP demonstrators looked really fit but she started struggling with the sandbag lift after the second lift- I can see it being tricker for someone shorter/smaller.

The 287lb sandbag contraption we had to drag seemed like a safer and more realistic test then the firemans carry.

All of our pers have now done the FORCE test. No fails.  Our 104 lb female also managed to pass.  The hardest issue for her was actually getting the sandbags to initially budge, but once she got them moving, she had no issues completing.

 

[armyvern]

Passing the BFT did the same thing with the PER except there was no exempt................unless you were a support trade and went base side the next year. Which comes back to the original point about not needing to be in great shape to pass the BFT every year and get that extra point.

All MPRRs read as "Pass - LFCPFS". Same for us support trades. Even at "Base Side" we are were required to do the BFT every year just as every other soldier serving in a LFC (now Cdn Army) posn was required to do. Zero difference there.

In my current unit (not Cdn Army), we do (and have always done) both the BFT and the EXPress as the annual requirement.  This year we have already completed our FORCE testing and many have their BFTs done too; the rest of us begin work-ups shortly.

Which brings me to the yellowed bit of your comment:  I have seen pers who exempted their EXpress Test (who also get an extra point) fail their BFT a couple weeks later and vice versa; so, apparently one didn't have to be very fit obtain an exempt and thus the extra point with that little now-gone test either. It is a two-way street.  Some people can hump a ruck forever and some can run like the wind; some can do both and some can not.

 

[upandatom]

All of our pers have now done the FORCE test. No fails.  Our 104 lb female also managed to pass.  The hardest issue for her was actually getting the sandbags to initially budge, but once she got them moving, she had no issues completing.

Possibly due to one member being posted to 1 Can Div.......otherwise I am certain JSR would of had at least the one fail

 

[Halifax Tar]

Possibly due to one member being posted to 1 Can Div.......otherwise I am certain JSR would of had at least the one fail

I believe Armyvern was referring to her RQ staff not JSR as a whole.

 

[Jarnhamar]

All of our pers have now done the FORCE test. No fails.  Our 104 lb female also managed to pass.  The hardest issue for her was actually getting the sandbags to initially budge, but once she got them moving, she had no issues completing.

Did the 104lb soldier need to use her body to lever the sandbags up above the line?


I learned it's better to crouch/squat down grab the sandbag then lift with your legs and press it against the wall  instead of standing bending at the waist picking the sandbag up off the ground with just arm muscles then powering it into the wall  ;D

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

...and going full retard to try to get the best times. 

Everyone knows you never go full retard.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Did the 104lb soldier need to use her body to lever the sandbags up above the line?


I learned it's better to crouch/squat down grab the sandbag then lift with your legs and press it against the wall  instead of standing bending at the waist picking the sandbag up off the ground with just arm muscles then powering it into the wall  ;D

You mean using a proper ergonomic lifting technique as opposed to a proven way to screw up your back?

 

[GnyHwy]

Proper technique is for sissies!  It is a fact of life - real men have bad backs.  ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

You mean using a proper ergonomic lifting technique as opposed to a proven way to screw up your back?

Yessir!

Worst of all it cost me two drinks because I challenged troops from my platoon that for every test they got a better time than me I'd owe them a drink.

 

[armyvern]

Did the 104lb soldier need to use her body to lever the sandbags up above the line?


I learned it's better to crouch/squat down grab the sandbag then lift with your legs and press it against the wall  instead of standing bending at the waist picking the sandbag up off the ground with just arm muscles then powering it into the wall  ;D

Although she is not a Sup Tech, those who are indeed briefed her on proper lifting techniques.  Our 110lb female suppie already knew those techniques and experienced no issues at all.

 

[caocao]

My boss is a 95 lbs female and i think that she may have a hard time with the sand bag drag.  The fireman's carry was done using someone of your own size so why not do the same for that part of the test?  Proportional to one's weight.