Ex Vigilant Guardian

[Forgotten_Hero]

I hope so. I'd hate for it to be a repeat of Vigilant Thrust. Aside from OBUA, this whole 3 block war stuff is not nearly as fun as the old cold war doctrine Gotta be done though... and thats why I hope that on VG they stick to worst case scenarios to prepare us for actually surviving, rather than simply searching a car as fast as possible, or "experiencing" walking through a house taking a glance here and there while the occupants make us tea.

Please, PLEASE someone tell me theres actually going to be IEDs we have to react to, and high threat levels during the urban patrols... hard targets for cordon and searches, and some OBUA... you know, the kind of situations where our life is in danger and we have to properly handle the situation and learn to survive!

 

[Loachman]

I am reluctant to give away too much, and I am not involved in the detailed planning of the MEL anyway, however your concerns are recognized by the planners. As participation is, of course, voluntary exercises must be interesting and valuable from the troops' point of view or they are not completely successful. That does have its challenges in this summer's scenario.

There are some real-world issues too, like the stand-up of CSOR, a couple of hundred guys gone to one or more TFs, ARC overlapping this year so courses don't have to be compressed, many new guys not being properly qualified to participate etcetera. TF manning and ARC will have a detrimental effect on the availability of critical junior leaders.

The final planning conference (where all planners come together to sort out the big picture stuff) was a couple of months ago so some of my info may well be dated, but nobody then could pin down how many pers would be available to participate even.

There has been a considerable risk taken on all of these exercises - SG and now VG - to provide interesting and valuable training. Not physical risk, as safety is of course hugely important, but in challenging troops and leaders beyond what has previously been expected of reservists and milcons, in fully funding peripheral aspects (like the PAff programme) that added a lot of flavour besides providing useful info to troops and generating media interest, and convincing very senior leadership that it could be done. Three percent of the Army's ammo budget for 2003 was spent on SG that year. I think that I got one box of blanks for my one mag for my first milcon in 1973. Many of us bought our own badly-worn combat clothing (one set) in Novack's in London that year as we were issued black coveralls for the summer course (and ankle boots, WWII heavy ponchos, and two grey blankets to sleep in). Fortunately, we didn't know any better. You guys are spoiled...

New ground has been broken with each SG, and this year's VG is no exception.

I'm not going to shoot my typing fingers off too much more at this point as I'm on the sidelines for a bit until everybody is ready to discuss helicopter support in detail.

It's certainly been fascinating and rewarding (and frustrating at times) to see this process (which occasionally has ressembled sausage-making in its lack of elegance) from the inside and participate in it.

Anyway, y'all are going to have to be patient and wait to see how this all unfolds. There are still tons of details to be worked out over the next few months.

I'll be trapped in Excon HQ, so I'll be relying on reviews here to gauge how successful we were. At least on SG 03 I got out to most of the PZs during the airmobiles and had a chance to chat with some of the troops.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

Alright, thanks for the input.

 

[jerrythunder]

so if there is no simunition, and no miles gear, are we going to do it the old fashioned way?

 

[JBP]

I am reluctant to give away too much, and I am not involved in the detailed planning of the MEL anyway, however your concerns are recognized by the planners. As participation is, of course, voluntary exercises must be interesting and valuable from the troops' point of view or they are not completely successful. That does have its challenges in this summer's scenario.

There are some real-world issues too, like the stand-up of CSOR, a couple of hundred guys gone to one or more TFs, ARC overlapping this year so courses don't have to be compressed, many new guys not being properly qualified to participate etcetera. TF manning and ARC will have a detrimental effect on the availability of critical junior leaders.

The final planning conference (where all planners come together to sort out the big picture stuff) was a couple of months ago so some of my info may well be dated, but nobody then could pin down how many pers would be available to participate even.

There has been a considerable risk taken on all of these exercises - SG and now VG - to provide interesting and valuable training. Not physical risk, as safety is of course hugely important, but in challenging troops and leaders beyond what has previously been expected of reservists and milcons, in fully funding peripheral aspects (like the PAff programme) that added a lot of flavour besides providing useful info to troops and generating media interest, and convincing very senior leadership that it could be done. Three percent of the Army's ammo budget for 2003 was spent on SG that year. I think that I got one box of blanks for my one mag for my first milcon in 1973. Many of us bought our own badly-worn combat clothing (one set) in Novack's in London that year as we were issued black coveralls for the summer course (and ankle boots, WWII heavy ponchos, and two grey blankets to sleep in). Fortunately, we didn't know any better. You guys are spoiled...

New ground has been broken with each SG, and this year's VG is no exception.

I'm not going to shoot my typing fingers off too much more at this point as I'm on the sidelines for a bit until everybody is ready to discuss helicopter support in detail.

It's certainly been fascinating and rewarding (and frustrating at times) to see this process (which occasionally has ressembled sausage-making in its lack of elegance) from the inside and participate in it.

Anyway, y'all are going to have to be patient and wait to see how this all unfolds. There are still tons of details to be worked out over the next few months.

I'll be trapped in Excon HQ, so I'll be relying on reviews here to gauge how successful we were. At least on SG 03 I got out to most of the PZs during the airmobiles and had a chance to chat with some of the troops.

Well, I'm using 1 of my 2 weeks vacation in the year from my full-time job so I hope it's at least got good training value even if there isn't SIMunition or MILES gear, really I just want to be able to perform what I'm expected of and get some good training out of this. I'm one of those guys that believes 1 week a night isn't enough and 1 weekend a month isn't quite enough either.... But hey, who am I right?

PS> You Tac Hel guys kick ASS! That was an amazing ride I had on SG 05, you guys sure know how to make some sharp turns in those things!!! I had no idea a helicopter was that manueverable! Can't wait for another spin up!!!

See you all then!

 

[civvy3840]

so if there is no simunition, and no miles gear, are we going to do it the old fashioned way?

Yep that means your getting blanks.

 

[Sig_Des]

Yep that means your getting blanks.

Thank you for that deep-ingrained sudden flash of knowledge  :

 

[civvy3840]

Thank you for that deep-ingrained sudden flash of knowledge  :

Try reading jerrythunders question, and your welcome. :

 

[Sig_Des]

Try reading jerrythunders question, and your welcome. :

Don't talk down to me, son. Standard Military Exercise practice. You use blanks. Stalwart Guardians of the past which we've been on, and the Vigilant Guardians that are coming up all have blanks. They're multi-million exercises.

How about coming back once you've been on one. Tell you what, maybe in a couple of years we'll see you on VG III, eh?

 

[Haggis]

Play nice, troops.  No sense getting this one locked.  The ex isn't for another 3 1/2 months.

I hope so. I'd hate for it to be a repeat of Vigilant Thrust. Aside from OBUA, this whole 3 block war stuff is not nearly as fun as the old cold war doctrine Gotta be done though... and thats why I hope that on VG they stick to worst case scenarios to prepare us for actually surviving, rather than simply searching a car as fast as possible, or "experiencing" walking through a house taking a glance here and there while the occupants make us tea.

Please, PLEASE someone tell me theres actually going to be IEDs we have to react to, and high threat levels during the urban patrols... hard targets for cordon and searches, and some OBUA... you know, the kind of situations where our life is in danger and we have to properly handle the situation and learn to survive!

Having just finished Vigilant Thrust last week, I'd say VG has the potential to be quite slick, even if it is only blank.  The problem with VT (and potentially VG) is that for the ex to work, troops gotta show up!  Having an FSG of 40 odd soldiers, most of whom are Sgts and higher, isn't too productive.  Nor is having major units field platoons of under 20 members.

It'll most be interesting to try to integrate new troops fresh from summer training into 3 block war mode... which is something that is not taught in SQ/DP1. (Unless I'm missing some info)

True.  But also consider that 90% of the "seasoned" troops and leaders have never done an FSO op or exercise.   The learning curve will be pretty steep for all ranks. It may not be a physical bag-drive like the last two, but it'll be challenging nonetheless.

 

[Adrenaline]

Wow...that looks like it would be a great ex.  I would love to be apart of that....IF im finished my training by then. 

That site looks pretty slick by the way.  Must be one hell of an operation to put together a site like that.  How many soldiers does this kind of thing draw out?


-Adrenaline

 

[Haggis]

How many soldiers does this kind of thing draw out?

Initial guesstimate would be 2000+.

 

[Adrenaline]

2000+ eh?  Dang.  Guess it would be a popular party.

 

[Loachman]

Thank-you Pte Joe. We do what we can.

They're Griffons, though.

I'm a Kiowa guy, but, unfortunately, we retired those ten years ago. They were much more fun.

We have vacancies...

 

[civvy3840]

Don't talk down to me, son. Standard Military Exercise practice. You use blanks. Stalwart Guardians of the past which we've been on, and the Vigilant Guardians that are coming up all have blanks. They're multi-million exercises.

How about coming back once you've been on one. Tell you what, maybe in a couple of years we'll see you on VG III, eh?

hey, didn't mean to offend or start some type of flame war. Actually with any luck I will be on VGIII.

 

[SuperTrooper]

So who is building this "fire base"
and is the arty shooting out of it as I want some sleep!

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

and is the arty shooting out of it as I want some sleep!

Actually I dont... I want to push myself and force myself to do my job with little sleep. Then I wont come back saying "that was easy"

 

[Sig_Des]

Actually with any luck I will be on VGIII.

Try to get the time off to go on any of the large LFCA MilCons. They're a great experience, and you get a chance to work with people outside your unit. Usually a lot of fun, and nobody'll turn down 2 weeks of pay.

I unfortunately won't be attending, as I'm drifting further away and away from the Res world.

 

[civvy3840]

Try to get the time off to go on any of the large LFCA MilCons. They're a great experience, and you get a chance to work with people outside your unit. Usually a lot of fun, and nobody'll turn down 2 weeks of pay.

I unfortunately won't be attending, as I'm drifting further away and away from the Res world.

I am either on BMQ this summer, or next october so I will be on VGIII, hopefully. I think it would be pretty cool to be able to train with other units/brigades.

By drifting away from the res world do you mean thinking about going regs, or leaving the CF?

 

[Sig_Des]

I'm working full-time class B, and my team is probably headed to Afghanistan in August. Transfer to the Regs comes in a year.