Drug use/drug testing in the CF (merged)

[SFontaine]

Living in Victoria, BC you can imagine that a lot of kids around here do weed and other such drugs. Ever since Grade 8 I've known at least two dozen people who have begun smoking weed and becoming total braindead morons. They start suffering in school, then you just stop seeing them there, then when you see them again they're either going to some sort of part-time moron school or dropped out entirely and they're complete dirtbags, long greasy hair, dirty smelly clothes etc. Hell I know a girl who in Grade 7 was really smart and was going on to the challenge program at a High School around here.. She did that for a bit, then fell into drugs and transferred to the school I go to, having utterly failed at the other school. After a while you just stopped seeing her there but whenever you do she's visibly screwed up and is failing her classes.  Not exactly a shining endorsement for weed.

Then again, to be fair and balanced, I'm friends with a few guys who do smoke weed once every month or two and they're generally smart guys who know what they're doing in life and haven't fallen into the rut that I've seen a lot of potheads fall into. Oh well who knows. All I know is I'm staying away from that trash because I don't wanna take any chances with my future in the military, and with my future in general.

 

[gate_guard]

I've made my own personal opinion about pot well known in the past. But just to rehash, I could care less if people smoke it, just don't do it around me, especially when I put the uniform on. As far as geting rid of the criminal element by legalizing pot, I don't buy it, they'll just find something else to push. Eliminating prohibition didn't put the bootleggers out of business, they just switched industries. As for marginalizing young people by giving them records, too bad, ignorance of the law is not an excuse (it's in the crim code, look it up) so don't whine when you get charged and screw up any chance of a decent career, you knew it was illegal. And yes it's bad for you, just because we can smoke and drink, doesn't mean we need another useless mind numbing intoxicant added to the mix. Call me old fashioned, but pot is for losers.

 

[BuzzzWorthy]

Sorry if I pissed on your shoes Boy's but at least I did'nt tell you it was rainin.

Opinions vary, like assholes, everybody has one.
Buzz

 

[SFontaine]

Go post your druggy bullshit somewhere else.

 

[Slim]

Sorry if I pissed on your shoes Boy's but at least I didn't tell you it was rainin.

Opinions vary, like assholes, everybody has one.
Buzz

I don't know if you being on this site is quite appropriate, in view of your past and the fact that you seem to be rather proud of it.

I'm sure there are other places that would be more in keeping with your personal objectives and values, and others who share your outlook on the world.

This forum is for soldiers and those who are interested in the military. I don't think that describes you at all now does it.

 

[nbk]

I was a mar eng tech 312  and got kicked out in 77 for smoking some hash I bought in Albourg Denmark.

Maybe in a few more years, when we do away with the facist leaders we have in Ottawa now, you will be pardoned for that gross injustice. 

And to all the people who say "I had some friend who smoked weed once and now he is an idiot" realize that your friends would be idiots no matter what they decided to get involved with. If they had access to alcohol instead of marijuana, they would all be drunkards. If they didn't have access to anything of that sort, then they would eat too much food and get big and fat.

FACT: Marijuana is in no way physically addictive. Marijuana is not heroin, it is not crack.There is not one single chemical in it that science has found that makes it addictive. No nicotine in marijuana.

The problem arises with weak people, who can't control themselves, and over indulge and can't stop themselves. Just because they choose marijuana doesn't mean that marijuana is the problem. Look at fat people, they over indulge in food. Using your logic, food should be banned because a very small minority of people who use food, over use it.

I can think of one person who I knew who was smoking and drinking by grade 6, smoking weed by grade 9 and dropped out of school after grade 10. Did any of the drugs do this to him? No. Its his own dumbass fault for not dealing with his problems and turning to drugs to escape them. So don't blame drugs for your own personal problems. If everyone who ever smoked a joint, dropped some acid or munched on some shrooms turned into some drug addicted burnout then everybody in the world would be that way.

Drugs are powerful substances that demand respect. If you don't respect them you will fuck yourself up, but if you do respect them they can teach you much about yourself, about life and about the universe. Drugs are like a knife. If you are careful and use it properly, it can aid your life, cut up your food, whatever. If you don't use it properly you will cut yourself, and if you really don't know what you are doing you can kill yourself quite easy.

Weak people will use whatever they can to deal with their inadequacy, but equally weak are those who revel in their ignorance, choose to remain uneducated about drugs, and dismiss the benefits that using these substances in moderation can have on one.

 

[nbk]

Actually I just thought of something...were you on duty when you were smoking that hash? Or was it just leisure time as I originally assumed.

 

[stukirkpatrick]

speaking of FACTS...

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg9-10.html

=======================================================

Q: What are the long-term effects of marijuana use?
A: Findings so far show that regular use of marijuana or THC may play a role in some kinds of cancer and in problems with the respiratory and immune systems.


Cancer
It's hard to know for sure whether regular marijuana use causes cancer. But it is known that marijuana contains some of the same, and sometimes even more, of the cancer-causing chemicals found in tobacco smoke. Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day (15) .


Lungs and airways
Lungs and airwaysâ ”People who smoke marijuana often develop the same kinds of breathing problems that cigarette smokers have: coughing and wheezing. They tend to have more chest colds than nonusers. They are also at greater risk of getting lung infections like pneumonia.


Immune system
Animal studies have found that THC can damage the cells and tissues in the body that help protect against disease. When the immune cells are weakened you are more likely to get sick.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: What if a person wants to quit using the drug?
A: In 2001, over 255,000 people entering drug treatment programs reported marijuana as their primary drug of abuse. However, up until a few years ago, it was hard to find treatment programs specifically for marijuana users.

Now researchers are testing different ways to help marijuana users abstain from drug use. There are currently no medications for treating marijuana addiction. Treatment programs focus on counseling and group support systems. There are also a number of programs designed especially to help teenagers who are abusers. Family doctors can be a good source for information and help in dealing with adolescent marijuana problems.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: What does marijuana do to the brain?
A: Some studies show that when people have smoked large amounts of marijuana for years, the drug takes its toll on mental functions (4). Heavy or daily use of marijuana affects the parts of the brain that control memory, attention, and learning. A working short-term memory is needed to learn and perform tasks that call for more than one or two steps.

Smoking marijuana causes some changes in the brain that are like those caused by cocaine, heroin, and alcohol. Scientists are still learning about the many ways that marijuana can affect the brain.



=====================================================================================

sounds pretty addictive to me and damaging to me...

 

[Pieman]

I am certainly no expert, but I believe Pot taken in moderation is not a big deal, you are just as likely to do as much damage to your lungs inhaling car fumes walking down a busy street. Smoke a lot, and you are going to pay. The same goes for drinking and just about any other kind of habit.

I am not opposed to legalization, as I have seen the upside/downside of that situation in other countries first hand, and I think it is better to go in the legalization direction.

Personally, I never used it, as I never understood the appeal of it. I find it makes people docile and boring. Especially at parties. Drinking is much for sociable and you can meet hot girls easier. People I know and seen using pot on a regular basis tend to sit around, watch TV, munch on chips, and do basically nothing. For a heavy pot smoker, a night out turns into them sitting on the couch smoking.   In countries where this is legal, they go to a shop that sells pot and they sit on the couch there. Wow, wild and crazy nights!!! Those guys are super cool, eh?

I'll stick to my pint of Guinness.

 

[Infanteer]

Let's clear something up here.  Casual marijuana will not turn people into raving crackfiends.  Please don't imply that this is my position.  I know plenty of people who do use it casually and they are quite competent and successful at what they do in life.  However, using an illicit drug implies a certain lack of any sense of social responsibility.  Just remember that next time you toke up you are breaking the law and partaking in an activity much involved with violent crime and organized racketeering.

Maybe in a few more years, when we do away with the fascist leaders we have in Ottawa now, you will be pardoned for that gross injustice.

There is a little thing in the military we call obeying orders.  Regardless of the fact that it may or may not be illegal for civilians to indulge in marijuana use down the road, the zero tolerance policy is in effect in the CF; you sign a form when you join saying you will adhere to such.  We can't pick and choose the orders we obey, nbk.

but if you do respect them they can teach you much about yourself, about life and about the universe.

:

 

[Scott]

I was a mar eng tech 312  and got kicked out in 77 for smoking some hash I bought in Albourg Denmark.

Maybe in a few more years, when we do away with the facist leaders we have in Ottawa now, you will be pardoned for that gross injustice. 

.

I don't know what the recruiting process was like in the 70's. Here is what happened during my interview in 1996, please forgive the fact that it is not verbatim:

I was given a list with the street names and Latin names of some drugs such as pot, LSD, heroin, cocaine, etc. I was asked to point to the ones which I had used in the past and had to recall the last time that I may have used these substances. It was then made abundantly clear to me that using any of the highlighted substances while engaged in a contract with the Military was WRONG. End of story.

If you are in the CF and you are caught using drugs you deserve everything you get and you should be released 5F (Do they still have that classification?)

In my job they make it very clear that they don't give a damn about what I do when I am away from work, hippies rejoice. But they also make very clear the consequences if I ever fail a drug test. There are rules, you break 'em, you pay, it's a concept older than anyone here. Not all occupations have to have standards like the CF does, so, if you do not like the standards you may feel free to PFO to somewhere else.

Cheers!

 

[nbk]

speaking of FACTS...

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg9-10.html

You go to a site called "National Institute for Drug Abuse" to get "facts"? Are you kidding me? Next you will be quoting Pravda and telling me the Soviets won the cold war.

Let's clear something up here.  Casual marijuana will not turn people into raving crackfiends.  Please don't imply that this is my position.  I know plenty of people who do use it casually and they are quite competent and successful at what they do in life. 

Fair enough I misunderstood your position. I was also responding to the other people on this thread too.

There is a little thing in the military we call obeying orders.  Regardless of the fact that it may or may not be illegal for civilians to indulge in marijuana use down the road, the zero tolerance policy is in effect in the CF; you sign a form when you join saying you will adhere to such.  We can't pick and choose the orders we obey, nbk.

I was honest when I told them about drugs I had used. They told me about the policies in the CF and why they need troops to follow them. I honestly told them that I would have no problem following their terms, and they accepted it, because of my honesty and professionalism in speaking about it, as well my extremely appealing charisma, that you are no doubt accustomed to by now. My experimentation has gone down a lot over the past few years due to the fact that I started working out a lot in preperation for my joining the CF and didn't want to waste a day's training just for relaxation's sake. I can make the distinction between my military life and civilian life, and realzie that I have certain responsibilities as a soldier, that I don't have as a civilian. I have to make sacrifices to get the job that I want, sacrifice my privacy, my freetime, and even my mental/spiritual health. There are good sides and bad sides to everything, and I took all things into account when making the informed decision to join the CF.

And although it is an undebatable fact that the Liberal government is an incredibly right wing totalitarian institution, it is maybe a good idea to assume people who use the word "facist" to describe the government of Canada are edging in on being sarcastic.

 

[Scott]

I was honest when I told them about drugs I had used. They told me about the policies in the CF and why they need troops to follow them. I honestly told them that I would have no problem following their terms, and they accepted it, because of my honesty and professionalism in speaking about it, as well my extremely appealing charisma, that you are no doubt accustomed to by now. My experimentation has gone down a lot over the past few years due to the fact that I started working out a lot in preperation for my joining the CF and didn't want to waste a day's training just for relaxation's sake. I can make the distinction between my military life and civilian life, and realzie that I have certain responsibilities as a soldier, that I don't have as a civilian. I have to make sacrifices to get the job that I want, sacrifice my privacy, my freetime, and even my mental/spiritual health. There are good sides and bad sides to everything, and I took all things into account when making the informed decision to join the CF.

And although it is an undebatable fact that the Liberal government is an incredibly right wing totalitarian institution, it is maybe a good idea to assume people who use the word "facist" to describe the government of Canada are edging in on being sarcastic.

nbk, pardon me for being confused, but if you understand the policies and why the CF needs troops to follow them and you go further to say that you are willing to follow them then why do you think someone who broke the rules would be pardoned and why would you defend them? I applaud anyone for taking a stand in their beliefs but it seems a tad bit contradictory on your part.

As far as the leadership in Ottawa, I don't think that you will see the laws change so far as the Military is concerned for quite some time to come.

You also state that your experimentation has gone down quite a bit in the last few years. nbk, according to your profile you are 19 years old. Just how long have you been experimenting? That is just my curiosity asking.

Furthermore, if you are truly interested in a career with the CF, as you state that you are, then you will have no problem giving up your "recreational" habits if they are the type that conflict with the rules that everyone else must follow. I say to you "Good Luck"

I'm not here to debate what pot does to kids, society or wether or not it should become legal. I have no use for it, I like beer much better. If they start selling it in every 7-11 nationwide this probably won't change. The rules, pertaining to drugs and the CF, are very cut and dried and I don't think it's possible for anyone to plead ignorance as the CF is very good in letting you know exactly what these rules are.

Cheers

 

[Pieman]

....as well my extremely appealing charisma, that you are no doubt accustomed to by now.

Ah man, that made me laugh nbk.  ;D :dontpanic:

 

[SFontaine]

speaking of FACTS...

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg9-10.html

You go to a site called "National Institute for Drug Abuse" to get "facts"? Are you kidding me? Next you will be quoting Pravda and telling me the Soviets won the cold war.

Rather get it from an actual institute that studies this sort of thing than from some guy who claims the Liberals are right wing and totalatarian.

 

[gnplummer421]

Funny, but in my case Alcohol and drug use was not an issue until I joined the army. It was after my arrival in Petawawa that I started to drink heavily, mostly because my supervisors and co-workers encouraged it. In those days, if you didn't go drinkin with the boys you didn't fit in and were considered a candy-ass. This changed toward the end of my time in the Forces when the so called "pepsi generation" were coming in and the pressure to drink diminished. As far as drugs are concerned, the 35% mentioned by another author actually sounds light to me. It just seemed that everyone was doing it around me, and lots of people were getting busted for it. A comprehensive drug screening program would certainly discourage use and possession, but I don't think it is possible to completely get rid of it. The Americans test regularly, and I don't believe they have as much of a problem with it. As a society, we seem to be more and more tolerant towards soft-drug use, and although not desirable or legal, serving members are affected by this trend.

 

[kruger]

If the numbers are true I am very embarassed for this nation.

 

[FastEddy]

And taking drugs because of stress is a really weak reason. It's like saying, "I shot the guy cause he wanted to knife me!". There are hundreds of other ways of releiving stress. Yes smoking pot is a good one but it's illegal and you aren't allowed to take any because of good reasons. Yes if someone smokes a joint here and there isn't bad. But if people start accepting that, they will take more and abuse it. We give an inch, they take a mile. And it's just plain wrong. If you take drugs and don't respect your role as a soldier, then you don't deserve to get my respect. Plain and simple.

Thank God for the voices of the Members logical and sound reasoning out there regarding,  prohibiting the use of Illegal Drugs by the Public or our Armed Forces.

As for stress "If you can't stand the heat, Get out of the Kitchen".

The road to becoming a Junky is usually that first toke.

Drugs are an all consuming blight and cancer on our society today.

Zero tolorance is the only way to begin to combat this problem._

 

[BuzzzWorthy]

Let's clear something up here.   Casual marijuana will not turn people into raving crackfiends.   Please don't imply that this is my position.   I know plenty of people who do use it casually and they are quite competent and successful at what they do in life.   However, using an illicit drug implies a certain lack of any sense of social responsibility.   Just remember that next time you toke up you are breaking the law and partaking in an activity much involved with violent crime and organized racketeering.

There is a little thing in the military we call obeying orders.   Regardless of the fact that it may or may not be illegal for civilians to indulge in marijuana use down the road, the zero tolerance policy is in effect in the CF; you sign a form when you join saying you will adhere to such.   We can't pick and choose the orders we obey, nbk.

:

All apologies for the intrusion. I guess I'd have to agree that I lost the right to post on this site when I made the choice to smoke cannabis and or hashish instead of drinking alcohol (something I have done three times in my 51 yrs of life). I would request the opportunity to respond in defence of my position which I will briefly outline below and depending on the subsequent posts thereafter will judge myself accordingly. Once again, All apologies.

I've had thirty yrs to contemplate the ramifications of my actions and speaking as a still PROUD Canadian I have nothing to repent. I now work with numerous Compassion Clubs to supply Quality, Chemical Free, Organically Grown, Strain Specific Medical Marijuana to our fellow Canadians who are termanally ill and or suffering from chronic pain for which main stream highly addictive narcotics offer no relief. To be more specific, I (due in llarge largeo my trades training) now act as a Medical Marijuana Production Facility Safety Consultant. I offer free services to Federal Exemptee's who are but the chosen few to be blessed with the sacred licence to grow and possess. Yes these terminally ill and chronic sufferers do have some rights even with you who opposes them pissing down there throat.. There is absolutely no connection to organized crime with these individuals cases
so let's not try to go there OK?

I was proud to wear my uniform and even though I'd be given some of the dirtiest jobs aboard ship on my way home by way of duty boat or public transit my appearance was as close to regulation as possible at all times. I tolerated the drunken stupor's my shipmates seemed to find enjoyable and on that note I'd ask you all to go through this thread and simply switch each instance of the words marijuana and alcohol so you get a clearer picture of just how much of a Red Neck attitude you've got.

I never smoked ON DUTY. How many of you can say the same about drinking? Laws? Are you sure you know the current state of our Canadian laws? Do you know that Supreme Court of Canada struck marijuana from the CDSA in 2001? Do you know that the decision of the Ontario Court of Appeals on Oct 07 2003 was invalid leaving Canada, a democracy with no laws governing the consumption, possession or sale of marijuana??

When they order you to DISPERSE THE CROWDS make sure you know who the real enemy is. Canada just put the famous five on the back of the new fifty dollar bills. To get a history lesson on Emily Murphy (Judge) just go to the link http://www.cannabiscanada.ca

It seems that time goes by so quickly when your an old burnout but I'll somehow find the time to help organize the upcoming Hwy 420 Cannabis Forum on April 16 in Niagara Falls and if there are those of you who have an opinion and would like to speak on behalf of whatever we welcome the opportunity to debate.

I really miss working on the Bailey 750 Sequencing System aboard the Triball   Class Destroyers as it was state of the art pneumatic sequencing that helped me with my civilian career. No grudges, shit happens.

 

[dutchie]

First of all, I don't think you should have any posting rights, as you are soliciting participation from CF members in an event that advocates drug use, which is still a violation of the Criminal Code, not to mention the National Defence Act.

Second, I, and others, view the recent struggle for mainstream acceptance of 'Medicinal Marijuana' as a complete farce. Many, including I, feel that this is merely an excuse for druggies like you to justify their ADDICTION. Does marijuana releive pain? Sure it does, but so does heroin. You don't see people advocating legalization of heroin do you? No. Also, why legalize it? Don't we have enough legal narcotic pain killers (Percodan, morphine, etc) that can alleviate pain? The answer is simple (to me): a)-there is no shortage of effective pain killers and b)- people that smoke marijuana are not credible advocates for the medicinal use of marijuana as they invariably have a bias (that has nothing to do with the medical qualities of then drug).

I don't care if you were proud of your service or not, you knew what you were doing was wrong (or at least illegal), and you did it anyway. Your pride in your service is grossly overshadowed by your violation of the law, and worse, your continued involvement in the drug world.

When they order you to DISPERSE THE CROWDS make sure you know who the real enemy is. Canada just put the famous five on the back of the new fifty dollar bills. To get a history lesson on Emily Murphy (Judge) just go to the link http://www.cannabiscanada.ca

Yeah, ok, I'm going to go to 'cannabiscanada.ca' to get truthful, objective, and accurate information on marijuana. Do you think we're retarded? Also, who is the real enemy? 'The Man'? Or is this just a delusion in your paranoid mind caused by years of marijauna (ab)use?

Are you sure you know the current state of our Canadian laws?

It is still illegal as per the Canadian Criminal Code. And should remain so, IMHO.