Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[FJAG]

With the guns currently self-divesting, LUSAR is going to the artillery, mortars to the Infantry, and blackness to my soul.

Please tell me that this is just an attempt at humour. I really don't want to hate the Reg F artillery leadership more than I already do.

:brickwall:

 

[OldSolduer]

The Canadian Government  ;D

The Canadian Federal Public Service is like the French Colonial Army, Operationally Optimistic.

There’s too damn many good idea fairies infecting DND and the CAF.

 

[mariomike]

Here is the kind of civilian volunteer Civil Defense LUSAR unit that was kicking around in the 1950s (see attachment)

Metropolitan Toronto established the Department of Emergency Services ( D.E.S.) under Commissioner John H. Pollard.

It was responsible for the operation of the Emergency Measures Civil Defense division known as, Emergency Measures Organization ( EMO ).

EMO was responsible for training and setting up a Heavy Urban Rescue Service ( now known as HUSAR ).
http://maps.library.utoronto.ca/datapub/digital/metro_1963/metro_1963_046.jpg

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

There’s too damn many good idea fairies infecting DND and the CAF.

yes, it seems they want us to do everything but actually be a military

 

[OldSolduer]

yes, it seems they want us to do everything but actually be a military

How True. It seems charity work, dressing in civvies on Fridays etc is far more important than operations, training and mundane stuff like making sure boots are available for soldiers to wear......

 

[FJAG]

How True. It seems charity work, dressing in civvies on Fridays etc is far more important than operations, training and mundane stuff like making sure boots are available for soldiers to wear......

True enough but the stupid thing is that the two do not need to be mutually exclusive. I do wonder how it has gotten this way.

:cheers:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I heard the Reserves will be doing civil defence and nuclear fallout surveys.

(some may be too young to get the inference)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

How True. It seems charity work, dressing in civvies on Fridays etc is far more important than operations, training and mundane stuff like making sure boots are available for soldiers to wear......

.....or sleeping bags. I wonder if they'll have to hot bag it in Mali?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

.....or sleeping bags. I wonder if they'll have to hot bag it in Mali?

We can start referring to TF Mali as the Sahel Submariners  8)

 

[daftandbarmy]

Metropolitan Toronto established the Department of Emergency Services ( D.E.S.) under Commissioner John H. Pollard.

It was responsible for the operation of the Emergency Measures Civil Defense division known as, Emergency Measures Organization ( EMO ).

EMO was responsible for training and setting up a Heavy Urban Rescue Service ( now known as HUSAR ).
http://maps.library.utoronto.ca/datapub/digital/metro_1963/metro_1963_046.jpg

We had the HUSAR folks in Vancouver in for a weekend of 'getting to know you' type activities. My take away was that we, the Reserves especially, are currently a moon shot away from being able to integrate with, or otherwise support without getting in the way, of the activities of organizations like this.

Confined/ semi-confined space entries and any kind of rescue in any kind of built up area? NBC decontamination? Anything that requires to be done in a fire/flood/chemical toxic environment? No way, uh uh...

Unless you need us to fill and carry body bags... which was something I mentioned we could probably do with our current levels of training and support.

 

[OldSolduer]

True enough but the stupid thing is that the two do not need to be mutually exclusive. I do wonder how it has gotten this way.

:cheers:

I think it’s simple yet complex. Politicians that think they know everything about the military and messing things up. Military members who are outside their element and haven’t got the sense to realize it.
The CAF has a plethora of GIF (Good Idea Fairies) who have not been told to “sit down and STFU”.

 

[mariomike]

We had the HUSAR folks in Vancouver in for a weekend of 'getting to know you' type activities. My take away was that we, the Reserves especially, are currently a moon shot away from being able to integrate with, or otherwise support without getting in the way, of the activities of organizations like this.

Confined/ semi-confined space entries and any kind of rescue in any kind of built up area? NBC decontamination? Anything that requires to be done in a fire/flood/chemical toxic environment? No way, uh uh...

Unless you need us to fill and carry body bags... which was something I mentioned we could probably do with our current levels of training and support.

Everything is so specialized now.

Apart from the Emergency Support Unit ( ESU ) I was a member of, there was HUSAR, and separate from ESU and HUSAR, there was the Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Response Team (CBRN).

Not to mention Marine, ETF, PSU etc...

I do not recall much interest for that sort of training when I was in the Reserves.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Everything is so specialized now.

Apart from the Emergency Support Unit ( ESU ) I was a member of, there was HUSAR, and separate from ESU and HUSAR, there was the Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Response Team (CBRN).

Not to mention Marine, ETF, PSU etc...

I do not recall much interest for that sort of training when I was in the Reserves.

Civil Defence was the Reservists raison d'etre in the 60's and early 70's Radiac meters https://www.orau.org/PTP/collection/radiac/IM174B.htm and personal dosimeters https://www.orau.org/PTP/collection/radiac/IM9.htm for everyone :rofl:

 

[daftandbarmy]

Everything is so specialized now.

Apart from the Emergency Support Unit ( ESU ) I was a member of, there was HUSAR, and separate from ESU and HUSAR, there was the Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Response Team (CBRN).

Not to mention Marine, ETF, PSU etc...

I do not recall much interest for that sort of training when I was in the Reserves.

One area where we COULD focus, and where it makes sense IMHO, is the CBRN stuff. It's a skill and capability that we don't really maintain effectively throughout the CF, I don't think, and it's a good match with the potential needs of municipalities.

But even that one capability would consume all of our training time to keep up the courses, skills and training required, and the infrastructure/ kit demands would be daunting.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I think it’s simple yet complex. Politicians that think they know everything about the military and messing things up. Military members who are outside their element and haven’t got the sense to realize it.
The CAF has a plethora of GIF (Good Idea Fairies) who have not been told to “sit down and STFU”.

This made me think of something I saw on Reddit yesterday:

Yes Retired General Cox, I'm certain you were able to provide very sound advice about "Winning the War in Aghanistan" and "Solving the Insurgency" to the man that commanded maybe 1% of total NATO Forces at the time in Afghanistan. 

I'm certain he has had some good ideas, but 'Winning the War" was probably a little outside of Canada's scope  :dunno:

 

[ArmyRick]

Sad. I am in the release procedures now (in the P Res, its taking awhile) and I am not impressed with the Good idea fairyism going on.

I will speak for infantry P Res (if I may after 27.5 years), focus on individual skills at a HIGH standard, focus on Section and platoon level training during the "school year" and then have a kick ass coy+ FTX in the summer concentration period. Fall arrives, re-start, hopefully some have moved up one on the totem pole.

For infantry, keep it basic. Focus on good solid soldiering skills and you can still pull off some high speed stuff with minimal training/rehearsals

Skills that are vital
-Small arms handling (know the drills cold for every company weapon)
-basic comms
-CRBN and combat ish first aid (not boring refresher crap that most troops practically sleep through)
-NAV (many soldiers suck at it and don't do enough instead they get to know their local bases and training areas)
-PW drills, casualty evacuation, resupply, vehicle searches, person searches, etc
-Section Hasty attacks
-Platoon hasty and deliberate attacks (day and night)
-platoon defensive occupations and withdrawals
-Urban ops (breaching, room clearing, building searches, etc)
-Keep winter warfare skills going

ALL of the above mentioned skills can easily gobble up all the training time September through June. It may not be sexy for some senior officers but at the end, the most important asset is there, a well trained and prepared infantry soldier

 

[MJP]

Sad. I am in the release procedures now (in the P Res, its taking awhile) and I am not impressed with the Good idea fairyism going on.

I will speak for infantry P Res (if I may after 27.5 years), focus on individual skills at a HIGH standard, focus on Section and platoon level training during the "school year" and then have a kick *** coy+ FTX in the summer concentration period. Fall arrives, re-start, hopefully some have moved up one on the totem pole.

For infantry, keep it basic. Focus on good solid soldiering skills and you can still pull off some high speed stuff with minimal training/rehearsals

Skills that are vital
-Small arms handling (know the drills cold for every company weapon)
-basic comms
-CRBN and combat ish first aid (not boring refresher crap that most troops practically sleep through)
-NAV (many soldiers suck at it and don't do enough instead they get to know their local bases and training areas)
-PW drills, casualty evacuation, resupply, vehicle searches, person searches, etc
-Section Hasty attacks
-Platoon hasty and deliberate attacks (day and night)
-platoon defensive occupations and withdrawals
-Urban ops (breaching, room clearing, building searches, etc)
-Keep winter warfare skills going

ALL of the above mentioned skills can easily gobble up all the training time September through June. It may not be sexy for some senior officers but at the end, the most important asset is there, a well trained and prepared infantry soldier

Nah brah, that is too well thought out and makes sense.  We will carry on down a path that has failed before because....well Canadian Army of course!

 

[Haggis]

But even that one capability would consume all of our training time to keep up the courses, skills and training required, and the infrastructure/ kit demands would be daunting.

A few years ago my unit, located in an area known as "Smuggler's Alley"  was tasked to train and equip a boat platoon to provide non-engineer marine mobility to the Territorial Battalion Group.  The plan was to do dry shore based training from September to November then on-water training from December to March and then contribute our developed capability to a TBG exercise. Our "training area" was generally frozen solid from December to March and overrun with cigarette boats and freighter traffic the rest of the time.  I'm sure those boat operators would have been less than thrilled to find the Army playing in their pool.

Thankfully the equipment, training and tasking never actually made it to the Armouy floor.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Unfortunately a lot of truth in that self divestment (I'm doubtful you'll give into the dark side of the force though Dave)

South Korea still has about 1500 105mm M101A1 in reserve, they are also adapting a number of them to be truck mounted, so lower half of the guns might be available as well. http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19711/South_Korea_To_Begin_Mass_Production_Of_Upgraded_105mm_Howitzer_In_2018

 

[FJAG]

South Korea still has about 1500 105mm M101A1 in reserve, they are also adapting a number of them to be truck mounted, so lower half of the guns might be available as well. http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19711/South_Korea_To_Begin_Mass_Production_Of_Upgraded_105mm_Howitzer_In_2018

It's not that there aren't reasonably priced guns available. That's never been the problem.

The problem is that the Reg F arty leadership has never taken its head out of it's butt to properly treat the reserve side of the branch seriously. It's always been an inconvenience as can be seen from the fact that some 50 years ago we took the diversity and capability out of the reserve artillery (locating, field, medium, even self propelled) and made them a vanilla brand of 105mm C1 towed which really had no war role at all. We've had a half century of basically the same gun (upgunned slightly to C3 and we now how well that worked out) with minor tweaks for gun tractors, radios and fire direction computers. The 105's are a dead end training aid and nothing more.

The fact is our leadership has never properly advocated or explored ways to improve the arty reserve capability. We should be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves.

[cheers]