Cost of housing in Canada

[IKnowNothing]

Looser zoning laws to build coach homes on larger properties is a good solution too that would avoid tiny homes ghettos.

Fun fact- Ontario's blanket allowance of ADU's does not apply to rural properties.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I like the concept of tiny homes (I’m pretty minimalist) but I’m not sure how the majority of North Americans would agree with me. I also really like condos and townhouses, but the main argument I hear is that it’s not enough space for a family (despite Asians and Europeans doing just that) or their stuff. Also, there is a (probably untrue) connotation with those tiny homes and trailer parks, and its social undertone.

There are companies that already build them, so why aren’t there entire subdivisions of tiny homes in Canada? They can work, but there would need to be a culture shift regarding housing, not just the amount of it.

Part of the reason condo/apartment and possibly tiny home living is suitable in Europe/Asian is because they have (rightfully) protected the Third Space in their societies; especially from gentrification or commodification.

North Americans entertain in their homes, are entertained in their homes, access their greenspaces from their homes, and any number of other activities because it's cheaper than going to a Third Space (restaurant, pub, ski resort, campsite, etc.) to do it.

Conversely, free use Third Spaces (commons, community gardens, libraries, churches and parish centres) are funded in a more egalitarian manner and are not grouped by their income demographic or area (even in Kingston, my kids know the Good Library (Pittsburgh Branch) from the Sketch Library (Rideau Heights).

Europeans/Asians get by on needing less space because culturally its not a thing to have it. My great-uncle mockingly called my grandfather "Il Conte di Rosso-Dale" (the Count of Rosedale) because he had a separate dining room from his kitchen. No one back home had that kind of living space because "who the hell are you? Royalty?"

Until we rejuvenate our Third Spaces, we are going to pad our First Spaces. That "padding" is also a multi-billion dollar industry that we the taxpayer pay into. Having free or cheap spaces to hang out?!

That sounds like Communism to me....

Third Space Theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

EDIT TO ADD:

This is why I am an active user of my Mess and encourage everyone to be active in theirs.

 

[AmmoTech90]

And Jane Jacobs and her front step.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Part of the reason condo/apartment and possibly tiny home living is suitable in Europe/Asian is because they have (rightfully) protected the Third Space in their societies; especially from gentrification or commodification.

North Americans entertain in their homes, are entertained in their homes, access their greenspaces from their homes, and any number of other activities because it's cheaper than going to a Third Space (restaurant, pub, ski resort, campsite, etc.) to do it.

Conversely, free use Third Spaces (commons, community gardens, libraries, churches and parish centres) are funded in a more egalitarian manner and are not grouped by their income demographic or area (even in Kingston, my kids know the Good Library (Pittsburgh Branch) from the Sketch Library (Rideau Heights).

Europeans/Asians get by on needing less space because culturally its not a thing to have it. My great-uncle mockingly called my grandfather "Il Conte di Rosso-Dale" (the Count of Rosedale) because he had a separate dining room from his kitchen. No one back home had that kind of living space because "who the hell are you? Royalty?"

Until we rejuvenate our Third Spaces, we are going to pad our First Spaces. That "padding" is also a multi-billion dollar industry that we the taxpayer pay into. Having free or cheap spaces to hang out?!

That sounds like Communism to me....

Third Space Theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some third spaces have become outside the reach of the middle class. My wife, a VP, and my self, a CPO2, are actively looking for a cottage/camp.

Let me tell you, our budget is severely limiting us. I am pretty sure we are going to end up with a camper on some land at this point.

 

[YZT580]

Some third spaces have become outside the reach of the middle class. My wife, a VP, and my self, a CPO2, are actively looking for a cottage/camp.

Let me tell you, our budget is severely limiting us. I am pretty sure we are going to end up with a camper on some land at this point.

or really? Try finding the land. Lots of jurisdictions are banning the use of a camper except as a temporary shelter during construction. We've been looking since Covid

 

[Halifax Tar]

or really? Try finding the land. Lots of jurisdictions are banning the use of a camper except as a temporary shelter during construction. We've been looking since Covid

Oh really?

I haven't heard that yet in NS, but I stand to be corrected.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Oh really?

I haven't heard that yet in NS, but I stand to be corrected.

Huge issue in rural Ontario. Nimbys controlling others. The rural communities around me don’t allow it anymore except for the unorganized one. It is a shame provided they aren’t dumping their sewage.

 

[lenaitch]

Huge issue in rural Ontario. Nimbys controlling others. The rural communities around me don’t allow it anymore except for the unorganized one. It is a shame provided they aren’t dumping their sewage.

It's the displaced (even temporarily) urbanites. They spent a lot of money for their little slice of rural heaven but want it to feel and operate like what they are used (a line about the British Empire: 'make the whole world England'). I remember the battles over cel-phone towers in cottage country because folks felt the lights spoiled their view. It's why Ontario had to enact 'right to farm' legislation because deep pocketed and well-connected cidiots were pestering local councils to control stinky farms and get slow moving equipment out of the way of their Bimmers.

I used to live in Muskoka back in the early '70s. Back then, it was mostly 'old money' in big places and 'blue collars' in small places. Most cottages were built cheaply and fairly basic and old money knew how to behave (often, their kids, not so much). Now it's a lot of 'new money' and people mortgaged to hilt. New money is entrepreneurs, people active in the financial world, etc. and good for them for being successful, but many of them are entitled dicks. Towns that used to be hardware, dry goods, grocery or a marina are now full of bistros and boutiques. Maybe good for the tourist; little use to the locals who now have to schlep to a larger town to buy basics. Those people will pester local councils to ban lawnmowers and leaf blowers before noon (abominations in cottage country to start with).

Where I am now, it is very blue collar. Not so many cottages (camp, cabin, depending on where you are) but lots of motorhomes and trailers. Every weekend, people bug out to a private lot they own, provincial park, private campground or maybe just a bush road towing their worldlies with them.

 

[mariomike]

It's the displaced (even temporarily) urbanites. They spent a lot of money for their little slice of rural heaven but want it to feel and operate like what they are used

They want the same level of municipal service they left behind.

Only 50% of that funding came from the Province of Ontario.

The other 50% from the municipal tax base ( census population, not business day population ).

"Displaced urbanites" can ante up on their rural property tax, or play it cheap.

Depends on how long they are willing to wait for service.

 

[mariomike]

Regarding finding a family doctor in rural Ontario.

Ontario: Hundreds in this town line up for a chance at a family doctor​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/family-doctor-walkerton-hundreds-line-up-1.7431902

‘Sad state of affairs’: Family doctor’s arrival in Walkerton leads hundreds to line up in snow to sign up

Hundreds of people lined up outside the Canadian Legion in Walkerton, Ontario, braving frigid temperatures for the chance to sign up for a family doctor.

www.thestar.com

 

[Eaglelord17]

It's the displaced (even temporarily) urbanites. They spent a lot of money for their little slice of rural heaven but want it to feel and operate like what they are used (a line about the British Empire: 'make the whole world England'). I remember the battles over cel-phone towers in cottage country because folks felt the lights spoiled their view. It's why Ontario had to enact 'right to farm' legislation because deep pocketed and well-connected cidiots were pestering local councils to control stinky farms and get slow moving equipment out of the way of their Bimmers.

I used to live in Muskoka back in the early '70s. Back then, it was mostly 'old money' in big places and 'blue collars' in small places. Most cottages were built cheaply and fairly basic and old money knew how to behave (often, their kids, not so much). Now it's a lot of 'new money' and people mortgaged to hilt. New money is entrepreneurs, people active in the financial world, etc. and good for them for being successful, but many of them are entitled dicks. Towns that used to be hardware, dry goods, grocery or a marina are now full of bistros and boutiques. Maybe good for the tourist; little use to the locals who now have to schlep to a larger town to buy basics. Those people will pester local councils to ban lawnmowers and leaf blowers before noon (abominations in cottage country to start with).

Where I am now, it is very blue collar. Not so many cottages (camp, cabin, depending on where you are) but lots of motorhomes and trailers. Every weekend, people bug out to a private lot they own, provincial park, private campground or maybe just a bush road towing their worldlies with them.

Where I am it is mostly the locals enacting those laws to prevent others from moving in. They want to keep it the old boys club and screw anyone else who wants to join. You buy a acre on a lake and want to put a camper on it to hang out there for the summer? Not allowed. Have to build a full house with the building permits and requirements that go into all that.

Want to live in a trailer well building your house one 160 acres? Can’t despite many of their families having done that themselves in the past. They won’t even let people park trailers on the property without a house on it.

 

[mariomike]

I like the concept of tiny homes (I’m pretty minimalist) but I’m not sure how the majority of North Americans would agree with me. I also really like condos and townhouses, but the main argument I hear is that it’s not enough space for a family (despite Asians and Europeans doing just that) or their stuff. Also, there is a (probably untrue) connotation with those tiny homes and trailer parks, and its social undertone.

There are companies that already build them, so why aren’t there entire subdivisions of tiny homes in Canada? They can work, but there would need to be a culture shift regarding housing, not just the amount of it.

Japanese suburbs were an eye opener for me.

Very clean and quiet.

No street parking.

Convenient amentities and rail transportation within walking distance.

Houses were customized to the owner's preference. No "cookie-cutters".

 

[dimsum]

Japanese suburbs were an eye opener for me.

Very clean and quiet.

No street parking.

Convenient amentities and rail transportation within walking distance.

Sounds like a 15-minute city to me!!!!!!

 

[lenaitch]

Where I am it is mostly the locals enacting those laws to prevent others from moving in. They want to keep it the old boys club and screw anyone else who wants to join. You buy a acre on a lake and want to put a camper on it to hang out there for the summer? Not allowed. Have to build a full house with the building permits and requirements that go into all that.

Want to live in a trailer well building your house one 160 acres? Can’t despite many of their families having done that themselves in the past. They won’t even let people park trailers on the property without a house on it.

Regions differ. Where we used to be in Simcoe County, setting up a trailer/RV while having your house built is accepted and quite common.

In my experience, if it's locals pushing for restrictive law, those locals probably originally came from away. Closing the barn door behind them type of thing.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Sounds like a 15-minute city to me!!!!!!

Highest population density in Canada (Windsor-Qubec City Corridor):

18,898,000 pers
÷230,000 km²
= 82 pers/km²

Highest population density in Japan (Honshu Island [including Tokyo]) -

104,000,000 pers
÷ 227,960 km²
= 429 pers/km²

We chose not to make 15 minute cities because we have the space to expand, fuel to burn, and roads to drive.

 

[Good2Golf]

Highest population density in Canada (Windsor-Qubec City Corridor):

18,898,000 pers
÷230,000 km²
= 82 pers/km²

Highest population density in Japan (Honshu Island [including Tokyo]) -

104,000,000 pers
÷ 227,960 km²
= 429 pers/km²

We chose not to make 15 minute cities because we have the space to expand, fuel to burn, and roads to drive.

Things would be so much better if all of Canada moved into the GTA.

 

[mariomike]

Sounds like a 15-minute city to me!!!!!!

Things would be so much better if all of Canada moved into the GTA.

It's not cheap.

Royal LePage 2025 Market Forecast for single-family detached median price,
https://marketing.rlpnetwork.com/Communications/2025_Royal_LePage_Market_Survey_Forecast_Chart.pdf

Greater Vancouver $1,766,334

Greater Toronto Area $1,523,466

Greater Montreal Area $750,780

Ottawa $935,340

Quebec City $476,896

Calgary $836,000

Edmonton $554.288

Halifax $605,745

Winnipeg $461,685

Regina $468,930

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Things would be so much better if all of Canada moved into the GTA.

50% of Canada lives in the Corridor, 12 of it's major urban centres located within it.

My point was merely that we could have spent blood and treasure on networking this geographical reality to our benefit, rather than being a "F@#% Toronto" bunch of nobs.

 

[Good2Golf]

50 of Canada lives in the Corridor, 12 of it's major urban centres located within it.

My point was metely that we could have spent blood and treasure on networking this geographical reality to our benefit, rather than being a "F@#% Toronto" bunch of nobs.

Fully agree, RMC. Was just adding a bombastic pinnacle of ‘15-minute villages are the solution’…I have no ill will against T.O. at all, I grew up there, but as you correctly note, there’s a huge chunk of population already in the Windsor-Quebec corridor.

A valid question to ask proponents of the 15-minute city is: “How much of Canada’s population should live in a 15-minute city?”

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Fully agree, RMC. Was just adding a bombastic pinnacle of ‘15-minute villages are the solution’…I have no ill will against T.O. at all, I grew up there, but as you correctly note, there’s a huge chunk of population already in the Windsor-Quebec corridor.

Gotcha. No ill will received or transmitted on this end.

A valid question to ask proponents of the 15-minute city is: “How much of Canada’s population should live in a 15-minute city?”

This is the larger question. We have the 2nd largest country by area and rank twelfth for lowest population density in the world. It's laughable to think we can have every town and village from Comox to Cape Spear in the 15 minute realm. It should be entirely within the realm of normal in the area I mentioned.

That said, the fact that I routinely aee folks hem and haw about IR or Cost Move when posted from Trenton to Kingston, to Ottawa and back; it highlights how much we designed the world around cheap cars and cheaper gas that will not be returning in my lifetime.

My wife would give Zero fucks about me taking a posting to Ottawa if I could grab an affordable commuter train and be home for supper every night. As our options are, 4 hours of driving (gas, wear and tear as well), or a $200 Via ticket round trip, I guess the Crown pays upwards of $30K for IR or a cost move....