Commissioner Wants TTC Cops Armed [ And What About Private Security?]

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Actually, since this thread has swerved all over, I think I will just rename it and we can carry on with both topics as they seem to intertwine.....

 

[Slim]

Back to the original scheduled thread....there is no doubt TTC Cops need to be armed. It amazes me how these politicians make these judgements when they themselves will not venture out without their armed escorts.

Very perceptive...perhaps a bit of insider trading? :

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Now, I don't know about you... but if I see an armed gunman trying to pull ANYTHING while I'm on duty, I am not just going to turn tail and run the other way.... I just couldnt live with myself if I did such a thing. Namely because we are Security and LIFE SAFETY officers, I am there to protect people not run and leave them to the fates. And talking to a few of the people who I secure, they basically say the same thing... In my opinion people see body armour, they know the person means business. NOT only that, but we also have a large safe that all the deposits go into at the end of the night. On a good night we are probably well over $10,000 at least. Christmas time closer to 50 if not more. For myself (1 guard at night) to stand beside this safe, I feel we should be properly protected. I guess I am just venting here, as I know there will be nothing done about it.

Okay, this is why we have to take a protective stance towards those who would not use discretion themselves.  These are the guards that will end up a headline.  And in a box.

Zipperhead I will tell you a little story; It seems one day that an old retiree working as a security guard alone in a medium size mall received a call for a medical emergency. He showed up to the tenant space ensured the patient was receiving proper first-aid and was off to meet the ambulance. He directed paramedics into the store and showed them the way back out all saving valuable time, as he had done dozens of times before. About a week later our hero shows-up for work feeling quite ill, but being the only security he can't call in sick because that means there will be no one available to do his work. A little later that morning the old guard drops to the floor clutching his chest. Without security to direct emergency services in a timely fashion, to the scene inside the mall, he died. True Story.

And the moral of the story?  If you are such a "dedicated professional" that you ignore your own personal health in order to show up for a security job, don't be surprised when you calf out.  If he was such an EMS whizz and was a great medical facilitator, he should have recognized the early signs of a heart attack.  If buddy went to the hospital like it sounds like he should have, he may still be around.  What would happen if he didn't show up?  Some supervisor or management type has to pull a midnight shift.  I'm sure his family would have rather he called in sick instead of burying him.  No one thanks a police officer who shows up sick.  They just tell you you're a retard and "you better not make me sick".
 

Don't tell me that you don't need the assistance of security when it comes to the huge private properties that have sprung up in every urban centre in this country. Security directs police, fire and ambulance to the scene and you should know that. Also when you bring in a Form 1 S.17 MHA who takes over custody, that right the loley security guards. When you pick-up an overdose or drunk and drop them off at an emergency room, because you can't take them to cells anymore for liability issues, who takes over security. 9 times out of 10 who gives police the authority to issue tresspass to property tickets, yet again security. Need I go on?

Most officers know their areas and don't need to be told where to go to get to a call.  And for medical stuff the paramedics will beat us there every time.  I believe the Scarborough Town Center, Yorkdale Town Center, Eaton's Center and Square One all have police sub stations, do they not?  As for the MHA's, I don't know what other cities do, but until the nut is admitted to the hospital, they are the responsibility of the apprehending officer.  Once they are admitted, then the retention of that party is the responsibility of the hospital.  If your job description included being physical with patients, then I guess that is what you signed on for, right?  We don't pawn off our drunks, so again I don't know what other areas do.  As for trespassing tickets, we do that FOR you because you are the aggrieved unit.  Do you really think we could care less about wheeling out a $55.00 ticket?  Careers don't exactly turn on that sort of stuff.
But, yes, go on.  I love self aggrandizing. 

Just because you acting irresponsibly in security does not automatically mean that all security are ramboes like you apparently were. The wannabe uniforms and cars (as you so respectfully put it) are not a good idea exactly for the reason you mentioned but the amount of time police lobby groups spend on the issue is stupid. Do you really think that people looking for help are going to go running up to a security guard by mistake and when they get there go "damn" and keep running and looking for a cop, not likely. Maybe a better way of doing things is to sit down and say police look like this and security looks like this. Instead of stomping around saying "no bad security, I'm taking away your cargo pants until you think about what you have done!"

When Elite Security first got their Crown Vic security cruisers, they were white with red and blue lettering.  There were actual guards that were doing vehicle stops after observing traffic violations and approaching cars and demanding documentation.  Over 90% of police are killed during "routine" traffic stops, so how is Skippy going to make out?  They denied it to death until they stopped an off duty police officer on her way home from an afternoon shift.  That clown narrowly skated on a impersonate charge, and was lucky to only be fired.
And no one wants your pants.  How much demand for size 26 and 48 waist pants do you think there is?

There problem solved no one will mistake police and security again now the OACP can get back to demanding raises from their boards, while private industry eats their lunch. Oh and by the way I am not a security guard nor is any member of my family but I care about those who are.

Nice.  So as a final bitter note you throw out that you think we are over paid.  Make sure you share your views the next time you are pulled over for a traffic offence.

 

[little ruddiger]

Zipperhead my gentle, learned little buddy, I know you are still upset with me for body-slamming you on that other thread but we can still be friends. A good way to start the flow of warm and fuzzies between us is for you to stop putting words in people mouths. You can follow that up by actually posting an intelligent opinion of your own instead of misinterpreting what others say and attacking them.

Shh shh I know your tantrums are hard sometimes they worry me too. Maybe you should sit down, wipe the froth from the corners of your mouth, get a cold glass of milk and do a little reading. A great place for you to start is here http://chrisbraiden.com/. I will, as an olive branch, be happy to help out with any big words that give you trouble 'cause you know ruddiger loves ya baby.

Another thing that would really help us out is to stop saying “you” to me when referring to security guards because I told you I am not one, but if I were I would be proud in spite of people like you. I have already mentioned some of what I do on this site. Maybe if you work on your attention to detail you could make detective some day. “Whose my big detective, whose my big detective” That’s right it’s you. You’re adorable :-*.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Okay, if you want to go with condescending/homo-erotic instead of reasonable argument, thats fine.  I grew up in the GTA and can handle it. 
You want to post-spoon, then go ahead.  I will choose to withdraw any further direct response, since I don't think it would be fair for us to get a thread locked that isn't ours, and I don't need to be introduced to the warning system.
If anybody wants my opinion on career moves, feel free to PM me.  I actually have a job.

 

[big bad john]

Okay, if you want to go with condescending/homo-erotic instead of reasonable argument, thats fine.  I grew up in the GTA and can handle it. 
You want to post-spoon, then go ahead.  I will choose to withdraw any further direct response, since I don't think it would be fair for us to get a thread locked that isn't ours, and I don't need to be introduced to the warning system.
If anybody wants my opinion on career moves, feel free to PM me.  I actually have a job.

point and match!

 

[little ruddiger]

There you go with your attention to detail defecate and assumption about other people posts again, zippy. I have not indicated anywhere on this site that I am either male or female. I also was treating you like a child not a lover because I think you have been throwing childish tantrums in your posts and hijacking any real discussion here. Also I have three occupations one of them is in law enforcement, one of them is military and one of them is academic. You probably didn't look at the site I had put in my last post but it is a former cop who truly thinks progressively about policing issues instead of spouting off the party line like you seem to do.

What hope does the TTC have in convincing the public they should be issue side-arms when our regular police officers go on the internet with statement like "Some people are like slinkies:  They don't really serve any purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs". Very tactful. It is obvious from what I have read from you that, as you say, you love self aggrandizing you also seem to be a  big fan of self delusion and a robo-cop 1st class. Being called conceded is an honour coming from the grand marshall of the concede parade that are your posts here. As for your little buddy big bad john are you going to say something usefull? This is a thread about special constables and security not cheerleading or tennis.

Anyway the solution to me would seem that Special Constable be armed and there must be more of them. Fundamental changes should be made in the law that would compel private and public properties to take proper security measures. We have fire codes and building codes to keep people safe why not security codes as well. It never seizes to amaze me how fundamental this seems. A property is required by law to be built a certain way, with certain materials and the owner must install and maintain fire alarm and suppression equipment or face fines or being shut down. On the other hand people can be beaten, raped and victimize on a property and there is no effective law that compells the owner to act. The only reason for security is insurance it is rarely a case where public safety is the real purpose for security measures.

Security Guards should have proper equipment to ensure there safety and training that is commensurate to their level of responsibility. The new Ontario act and the one in BC attempts to do this but stronger enforcement and real teeth are needed to make change. As mentioned before Quebec has mandated a decent living wage for security staff and obviously if this were done in the other provinces it would go a long way to attracting the right people and retaining them. It is a simple approach tougher regulations and more resources equal greater public safety.

 

[big bad john]

There you go with your attention to detail defecate and assumption about other people posts again, zippy. I have not indicated anywhere on this site that I am either male or female. I also was treating you like a child not a lover because I think you have been throwing childish tantrums in your posts and hijacking any real discussion here. Also I have three occupations one of them is in law enforcement, one of them is military and one of them is academic. You probably didn't look at the site I had put in my last post but it is a former cop who truly thinks progressively about policing issues instead of spouting off the party line like you seem to do.

What hope does the TTC have in convincing the public they should be issue side-arms when our regular police officers go on the internet with statement like "Some people are like slinkies:  They don't really serve any purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs". Very tactful. It is obvious from what I have read from you that, as you say, you love self aggrandizing you also seem to be a  big fan of self delusion and a robo-cop 1st class. Being called conceded is an honour coming from the grand marshall of the concede parade that are your posts here. As for your little buddy big bad john are you going to say something usefull? This is a thread about special constables and security not cheerleading or tennis.

Anyway the solution to me would seem that Special Constable be armed and there must be more of them. Fundamental changes should be made in the law that would compel private and public properties to take proper security measures. We have fire codes and building codes to keep people safe why not security codes as well. It never seizes to amaze me how fundamental this seems. A property is required by law to be built a certain way, with certain materials and the owner must install and maintain fire alarm and suppression equipment or face fines or being shut down. On the other hand people can be beaten, raped and victimize on a property and there is no effective law that compells the owner to act. The only reason for security is insurance it is rarely a case where public safety is the real purpose for security measures.

Security Guards should have proper equipment to ensure there safety and training that is commensurate to their level of responsibility. The new Ontario act and the one in BC attempts to do this but stronger enforcement and real teeth are needed to make change. As mentioned before Quebec has mandated a decent living wage for security staff and obviously if this were done in the other provinces it would go a long way to attracting the right people and retaining them. It is a simple approach tougher regulations and more resources equal greater public safety.

It might be helpful if you filled out your profile more.  Just a helpful suggestion.

 

[Sappo]

Wow..... just wow... where to begin.


I can see this has gotten a tad wee bit... teensy even... out of hand.

To zipperhead:  On the comment about protective stances? Seriously speaking... when I take a job I take it seriously, If I am hired to protect someone/something I am going to protect it... otherwise I wouldnt have applied for that job in the first place. If you are implying that I turn tail and sprint down the hall, for whatever reason... then I guess we just have different outlooks on obligation and commitment.

To WR: I can agree with you to some respect that yes security officers do try and paint themselves in the same light as police officers, and puff out their chests etc. That is a generalization unfortunatly. As I have worked with many who simply do a great job. I really dont see the problem with what we wear for uniform... I have had 15 year old stoned kids say "Shit its a cop", and then their 5 year old brother points out "No its a security guard". If a 5 year old can tell the difference, than I should hope you can too

Ruddiger: That story was a good one, and Zipperhead anyone who has worked security can atest to the fact that you simply DONT take days off... at my current job I was told that if I try to take a day off without DAYS notice, my phone will ring every 5 minutes until I show up to work. No joking. It is fine and dandy to say he could have taken the day off work, but lord knows he probably had bills to pay, food to buy, and if he didnt show up faced being dismissed. The fact of the matter, and the reason ruddiger posted the story is to show that security guards actually do a service to society, even if you are past the security guard stage now and just look down on us from above


Now uhh, what was this thread about again?

Oh ya... lets arm em!

 

[Thompson_JM]

Yes.... lets try not to let this spiral too much here.....

bottom line TTC Transit Police are just that, Police. so lets give em the tools to do there damned job!

Id love to hear how Howards Moscoe can prove that Arming less then 100 staff turns the TTC into an armed camp...

sounds like hes been hanging out at York U.


Cheers
    Josh

 

[S1]

I have been following this thread with much interest and feel the need to reply.

I've been working as a security professional for many years now (probably too many). I got into the field, like many others, with the intention of moving on to a policing career. After working in the security field, I have changed my mind. Part of the reason is a severe disillusionment with the police "institution" and their practices.

I've had the pleasure of interacting with many members of various police services, some were pleasant, others not so much. For example, I read earlier about police having to stay with S. 17 patients until accepted by the hospital. This is true, however apparenty members of the Ottawa, Toronto, O.P.P., R.C.M.P., York, and Durham regions were not made aware of this, because in my years I have had several issues with all of these services leaving Sec. 17 patients unattended, often in the waiting room, often without notifying medical personnel

Also, I can come up with numerous other occassions were the police have not only not assisted security, but have actually done their best to discredit or work against them. Is this the way to make our communities safer.

The other reason I decided against becoming a police officer is I actually care about the safety and well being of my community, and unfortunately most police services I have dealt with, despite their lip service, don't seem to feel the same.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Why did you feel the need to make a new "identity" just to tell us that?

You have 5 minutes to PM me before the ban hammer comes out....

 

[little ruddiger]

I am not S1 he is my roomate and he used my laptop to view the posts I had been ranting about and felt he had to respond himself. I can understand why there is confusion but I am not the author of that post.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So "S1" is your roommate who just happens to share the same thoughts about the police and private security..............must have been good luck that two people with the same thinking ended up together.

 

[The_Falcon]

I smell a troll 

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Okay. For the record
1.  I am fully supportive of private security and their pursuit of whatever mandate they are hired for.
2.  Police services get nervous around security "zealots" because they don't have our training, legal support or job descriptions that we do and when they try to, that's when things get screwed up. 
3.  I have seen all of the non-police posters talk about policing as a job, work, intitution, maybe a career, or something distasteful that they chose not to pursue, etc.  They speak in defeatist language like "I chose to do something better" and "I tried and they didn't want me".  The only person who took you out of the competition was you.
When you have a badge, you are part of a family.  The same as a Regimental family.  You go to the wall for your brothers and sisters in every situation, because it is usually us against the world.  We only have each other.  When you apply for the job, and you get accepted, that is one police officer saying to all other police officers "I would work with this person.  I would go through a door with them in a gun call.  I would trust them to get me home to my family.  I see this person as so filled with potential that they are deserving of the Public Trust.  I believe they can be a Police Officer".   That is a pretty awesome thing and it takes a lot of demonstration of worthiness to get to that point.

To say that

unfortunately most police services I have dealt with, despite their lip service, don't seem to feel the same.

police are disinterested in the well being of their communities is at best wrong, and at worst painfully ignorant of what we actually do. 
If private security is your thing, please enjoy your career and do the best you can at it. 
The TTC are not security guards.  They are sworn officers and uphold the public trust in Toronto's transit system.  If they are sworn to put themselves in harms way, they should have the tools they need.

 

[Old Ranger]

And for medical stuff the paramedics will beat us there every time. 

There has always been speculation for the above happening?

Maybe the Medics will take this one for us...?

Cheers

Armeveryuniformouthere Ben

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I smell a troll 

I think the troll has been cut off.  Darn.  8)

 

[Thompson_JM]

Meh, I dont miss him....

besides... you can only say "youre wrong, and while im on the subject youre also a complete F@#$ing MORON too!" so many times before you just hit the person for not listening... or since thats technically wrong, you either remove yourself, or him from the situation... in this case our Mods saw fit to remove him.... because he's a tool....

and bitter....

and zipperhead,

...When you have a badge, you are part of a family.  The same as a Regimental family.  You go to the wall for your brothers and sisters in every situation, because it is usually us against the world.  We only have each other.  When you apply for the job, and you get accepted, that is one police officer saying to all other police officers "I would work with this person.  I would go through a door with them in a gun call.  I would trust them to get me home to my family.  I see this person as so filled with potential that they are deserving of the Public Trust.  I believe they can be a Police Officer".  That is a pretty awesome thing and it takes a lot of demonstration of worthiness to get to that point...

thats what im hopeing the boys in recruiting will see in me.

but thats about the best way to put what it really feels like to want to be a cop. when youre applying and working towards it, all youre thinking is, "I hope they think im good enough to join their ranks. I hope they can see the potential."

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Then you will be in someday.  Stay the course.