CFRG and the broken recruiting system-Split

[KerryBlue]

I think I can speak for myself and a few other applicants when I say its fairly off putting to hear, "Oh we'll get back to you within a month or so to schedule x appointment" "we don't have an estimated date, but don't worry you're still being processed."

This is all you get from recruiters now a day. I was told 2 weeks in October, came back and was told whoops we forgot to do you background check come back in a month. A month later, whoops new process we'll call you. Granted I lost most of January waiting for ROTP. But still I'm goingon 3-5 months  of waiting for an interview and medical, and no I did not require PERSEC or anything else. I'm coming up on one year now, with another 4-5 months at least of waiting.

 

[x-grunt]

Ach, it wasn't until I read this article and this thread that I realized how bitterly disappointed I still am about my own experience. 
I have to say the reporter was *far* more gentle then I would be.

I was in the recruiting stream for nearly 3 years, then I was mistakenly turned down a few days - days! - before the Basic Officer training I was *already* loaded on. The decision was reversed but no one told me for over a year, after which my file was already closed and my life had taken a different turn. That was 7 years ago now, and at my current age enrolling, while technically possible, would be a joke (I'm 54 now. Who needs a 54 year old officer cadet or private?).

I hope the system has improved, or will be.

edit to add: Sorry, I realize this was a bit of a rant. I feel better now and feel free to ignore it.

 

[DAA]

I hope the system has improved, or will be.

I'm sure they're working on it right now.    :facepalm:

fiddle while Rome burns
Fig. to do nothing or something trivial while knowing that something disastrous is happening. (From a legend that the Roman emperor Nero played the lyre while Rome was burning.)

fiddle while Rome burns
to spend time enjoying yourself or doing things that are not important when you should be dealing with a serious problem
Usage notes: This phrase comes from a story about the Roman emperor Nero, who fiddled (= played the violin) while the city of Rome was burning.

 

[MacIssac]

When I applied in January - a month had passed and still did not hear back for a CFAT booking, so I decided to email my first contact and within a day, a Cpl had called me and sched. a CFAT booking, another month went by and I had walked into my recruitment center and asked to make sure my trade choices were correct, turns out they had totally different trades down (only because I had made the mistakes of applying as an officer online) instead of NCM. When I called my file manager (which I do not do often) I had told him that I don't want to be "that guy" calling in every week to see an update even though it was my second time contacting him, and we both had a good laugh that there are people far worst then myself calling in everyday asking for an update which makes me feel for what some recruiters or file managers have to go through on a daily basis - he was kind enough to tell me that I was on the list for medical and interview after april 1st (new fiscal year) but to come back in April as he is leaving and his files handed off to someone else. Every situation is different but I think some file managers like to see that applicants take charge when needed to make sure everything is in good shape on their application. Even tho the desk attendant had sched. me an interview and medical that week and it was cancelled the next day, I will wait patiently for April to call back or even go in to see if there is anything I can do to get an interview and medical booked. 

DISCLAIMER
(What I write should not be taken as advise, just stating my own personal experience)

 

[i_want_a_pmq]

That was 7 years ago now, and at my current age enrolling, while technically possible, would be a joke (I'm 54 now. Who needs a 54 year old officer cadet or private?).

It's never too late to try, unless you actually reach retirement age (60). I definitely saw a few older folks in Saint-Jean. In the Basic Up: Reloaded series, there was a guy in his 50s going through BMQ.

 

[ballz]

Couple the terrible recruiting system with the inability to get recruits through their initial MOC training... and it would make a great case study for a Master's level Human Resources class.

 

[DAA]

Couple the terrible recruiting system with the inability to get recruits through their initial MOC training... and it would make a great case study for a Master's level Human Resources class.

It's not exactly rocket science but more like "reverse engineering".

The occupational MA identifies the intake requirements, the TA (ie; trg schools) receive those numbers, plans crses accordingly and then notifies recruiting of the QL3 crse start dates.  Recruiting then enrols by occupation based on TA schedules and BMOQ/BMQ dates.

Offr Occ Trg/QL3 Crse Start Date - Duration of BMOQ/BMQ - 60 days (give or take) = Date of Employment Offer with enrolment a week or two prior to BMOQ/BMQ start.  Atleast that is the way it worked "circa 1980's", before computers and planning that all on paper.

I think this kind of thing is probably taught at the undergrad level as a "basic" HR competency.

 

[d_edwards]

It appears to me that part of the problem is bottlenecks at the medical file reveiw, and security/background checks.    I just did my file update and now have to provide another list of references.  They will get the same list as before with a similar result, but will still take time to process.  My medical update worries me because I am on the Reserve Supp list.  For some reason the CFRC det has to have my medical done at the base hospital and the wait for an appointment there can, and has been months. 

I am sure things can be done more efficiently but there does not seem to be any incentive or drive to do so. 

 

[TCM621]

The single easiest thing they could do to speed times up would be to have the candidate hand in his application, walk over to a computer, and do the CFAT. Just like at the DMV. Put the two together and the file moves forward. Not only would it cut down waits by a few weeks to a month, it would give the initial reviewer a way to prioritize cases. If you need a bunch of AVS or Naval electronic techs, you can focus on the applicants with high aptitudes in the required areas.

 

[DAA]

The single easiest thing they could do to speed times up would be to have the candidate hand in his application, walk over to a computer, and do the CFAT. Just like at the DMV. Put the two together and the file moves forward. Not only would it cut down waits by a few weeks to a month, it would give the initial reviewer a way to prioritize cases. If you need a bunch of AVS or Naval electronic techs, you can focus on the applicants with high aptitudes in the required areas.

Ummmmm, that's pretty much what the process is already.

 

[Nemo888]

It's always been like this as far back as I can remember. Generation before sounds a little easier.  Signed a contract, got a wad of cash and just enough time to blow it before you had to show up for basic. Back then you could still ask the judge to sign up instead of jail time. Most of those guys must be 70 at least now. Is it just me or has the military become less fun? My God those guys had stories.

 

[George Wallace]

It's always been like this as far back as I can remember. Generation before sounds a little easier.  Signed a contract, got a wad of cash and just enough time to blow it before you had to show up for basic. Back then you could still ask the judge to sign up instead of jail time. Most of those guys must be 70 at least now. Is it just me or has the military become less fun? My God those guys had stories.

:

Back then we did not have The "Igor Gouzenko Affair", nor 911, nor the requirement that all members hold a Level II Security Clearance to operate highly technical weapons, communication and electronic systems.  Back in the day, you only had to have one heart, two lungs, two arms, two legs, two eyes and ears, and be able to follow orders.  Back in the day we did not have sophisticated computers tracking our everyday lives.  People actually did outdoor activities.  People actually wanted to work and prove that they could, not just feel that they should be entitled to work.  A high level of education was not required in those simpler times.  Yes, back in the day recruiting was much simpler.  Sorry, but times have changed.  If you don't have the capability to learn, are not in the best of health, and can not attain a Security Clearance, you are not likely to get into the Canadian Armed Forces of today.........And guess what?  It takes time to verify that you are what you claim to be.

 

[The_Falcon]

If you don't have the capability to learn, are not in the best of health, and can not attain a Security Clearance, you are not likely to get into the Canadian Armed Forces of today.........And guess what?  It takes time to verify that you are what you claim to be.

:goodpost:

 

[Goose15]

:

Back then we did not have The "Igor Gouzenko Affair", nor 911, nor the requirement that all members hold a Level II Security Clearance to operate highly technical weapons, communication and electronic systems.  Back in the day, you only had to have one heart, two lungs, two arms, two legs, two eyes and ears, and be able to follow orders.  Back in the day we did not have sophisticated computers tracking our everyday lives.  People actually did outdoor activities.  People actually wanted to work and prove that they could, ]not just feel that they should be entitled to work. A high level of education was not required in those simpler times.  Yes, back in the day recruiting was much simpler.  Sorry, but times have changed.  If you don't have the capability to learn, are not in the best of health, and can not attain a Security Clearance, you are not likely to get into the Canadian Armed Forces of today.........And guess what?  It takes time to verify that you are what you claim to be.

I would almost be inclined to agree with you GW if not for two things in your post. I completely submit to the fact things are more intricate nowadays and this requires applicants to be stronger, more educated and more competitive overall. Also, with the necessity of certain levels if Security Clearance in places which were not (or rarely?) required in previous years, it makes good sense things would take longer.

This is where I have an issue though:

You are taking the bad eggs who seem to feel entitled and putting a blanket over all of us. Frankly, I know full well (as well as many others including personal friends who are applying/have already applied) the CAF owes me nothing. In fact I should be the one owing the CAF as they are a key factor in my everyday freedom.

Secondly (and more about this particular thread): the fact things take time is understandable, completely 100%. I have worked in jobs where things take time, that is just how it is sometimes. The issue arises when it's not just a time consuming item such as a background check but recruiters and/or file managers losing key information or not contacting you to inform you of a new process or required change in your application. I know that many recruiters like an applicant to take charge so (especially during my ROTP app) with my background checks I would call in every 3-4 weeks to be sure everything was going smoothly with my background checks as I had spent time in the US for college. My file manager appreciating the attentiveness said they were just awaiting a response from the QR&O but everything was just fine. I now have a new file manager and my new file manager informed me no one ever submitted my checks despite having been told they were just waiting to receive word. That is of course ignoring the fact I had to drive an hour to my CFRC multiple times because they lost the BG check multiple times. That is why I became frustrated; not because things were slow as in many other application processes but due to the errors that I believe would be considered intolerable in any workplace. I have full respect for all serving members including those who have operated my file but to say that what occurred is just "a time-consuming process" would be a poor description.

 

[Emilio]

You are taking the bad eggs who seem to feel entitled and putting a blanket over all of us. Frankly, I know full well (as well as many others including personal friends who are applying/have already applied) the CAF owes me nothing. In fact I should be the one owing the CAF as they are a key factor in my everyday freedom.

Thank you. 

 

[The_Falcon]

I would almost be inclined to agree with you GW if not for two things in your post. I completely submit to the fact things are more intricate nowadays and this requires applicants to be stronger, more educated and more competitive overall. Also, with the necessity of certain levels if Security Clearance in places which were not (or rarely?) required in previous years, it makes good sense things would take longer.

This is where I have an issue though:

You are taking the bad eggs who seem to feel entitled and putting a blanket over all of us. Frankly, I know full well (as well as many others including personal friends who are applying/have already applied) the CAF owes me nothing. In fact I should be the one owing the CAF as they are a key factor in my everyday freedom.

Secondly (and more about this particular thread): the fact things take time is understandable, completely 100%. I have worked in jobs where things take time, that is just how it is sometimes. The issue arises when it's not just a time consuming item such as a background check but recruiters and/or file managers losing key information or not contacting you to inform you of a new process or required change in your application. I know that many recruiters like an applicant to take charge so (especially during my ROTP app) with my background checks I would call in every 3-4 weeks to be sure everything was going smoothly with my background checks as I had spent time in the US for college. My file manager appreciating the attentiveness said they were just awaiting a response from the QR&O but everything was just fine. I now have a new file manager and my new file manager informed me no one ever submitted my checks despite having been told they were just waiting to receive word. That is of course ignoring the fact I had to drive an hour to my CFRC multiple times because they lost the BG check multiple times. That is why I became frustrated; not because things were slow as in many other application processes but due to the errors that I believe would be considered intolerable in any workplace. I have full respect for all serving members including those who have operated my file but to say that what occurred is just "a time-consuming process" would be a poor description.

Sorry  it cuts both ways.  Do people in recruiting make mistakes and misplace stuff, yes.  They are human not robots.  But I see the same constant griping from each and every applicant on this site, it's ALWAYS recruiting's fault something went astray.  Everyone of you is perfect I guess, and didn't provide incorrect contact information, made sure everything was neat and legible, filled in all applicable boxes on every form etc.

BULL****

If that were the case, why is it in Toronto for example, every single CFAT, either myself or one of the other invigilators had to call 3-5 people aside before EVERY single  test and have them either re-fill out forms, or fill in spots that they missed.

Or have GARDA contact me at least once a day regarding an applicant because they couldn't get a hold of any of the listed references, or they just plain couldn't read the craptacular handwriting of some people.

Does the system have issues, yes it does.  But like I said before, sometimes the delays are self-inflicted on the applicants part.  And I guarantee, there are plenty of applicants on this site who share responsibility for their process taking a long time, but they are incapable of actually admitting it.

So now that you are all going to be butt-hurt by my comments, here is checklist for you to make sure you aren't the problem

1) Have you followed what ever instructions you were given to the letter?
2) Did you fill out any forms you were given COMPLETELY and LEGIBLY using correct sentence and grammar structure for either English or French?
3) Did you submit ALL your paperwork in whatever time frame you were given?
4) Did you research to make sure you have the proper credentials?
4a) Did you submit those credentials?
5) Did you provide correct and current contact information?
5a) Do you actually check that contact information regularly?
5b) Did you provide correct and current contact information for references?
6) Have you abstained from excessive drug/alcohol use?
7) Have you kept yourself out of legal issues?
8) Have you kept yourself out of credit issues?
9) Are you a healthy and fit person with no underlying medical issues?
10) Did you pick a trade that is currently OPEN?
11) Have you spent your ENTIRE life in Canada?
11a) Has your immediate family spent their ENTIRE life in Canada?
12) When leaving voicemails, or emails can you be understood clearly?

Most of you think that 166 days is not feasible, well it is.  Most of the files I dealt with were in fact processed in about that time frame.  Improvements can definately be made to shorten that gap, but I will say it again, if you are outside that time frame, you need to take a good long honest look in the mirror and that list above, cause I will bet good money, the issue isn't the system it's you.

 

[KerryBlue]

So now that you are all going to be butt-hurt by my comments, here is checklist for you to make sure you aren't the problem

1) Have you followed what ever instructions you were given to the letter?
2) Did you fill out any forms you were given COMPLETELY and LEGIBLY using correct sentence and grammar structure for either English or French?
3) Did you submit ALL your paperwork in whatever time frame you were given?
4) Did you research to make sure you have the proper credentials?
4a) Did you submit those credentials?
5) Did you provide correct and current contact information?
5a) Do you actually check that contact information regularly?
5b) Did you provide correct and current contact information for references?
6) Have you abstained from excessive drug/alcohol use?
7) Have you kept yourself out of legal issues?
8) Have you kept yourself out of credit issues?
9) Are you a healthy and fit person with no underlying medical issues?
10) Did you pick a trade that is currently OPEN?
11) Have you spent your ENTIRE life in Canada?
11a) Has your immediate family spent their ENTIRE life in Canada?
12) When leaving voicemails, or emails can you be understood clearly?

Well what about those people who can answer yes to all the above questions. Granted I lost some time in between January and February for ROTP application and transferring my file, but I'm still closing in on a year or 10 months if you subtract the ROTP time and I have yet to be contacted for a medical or interview.

 

[The_Falcon]

You may not be as competitive as you think you are, and people with higher scores, better grades, etc. could have been prioritized ahead of you.  When I was working at Toronto, the Det Commander personally wanted to all the ROTP applicants.  The current one may well be the same.  As such there were limited slots for interviews, and he screened the files himself.

 

[Goose15]

....

PM inbound.

 

[Goose15]

Misposted.