CFRG and the broken recruiting system-Split
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The only "complaint" I can think of, in regards to my recruiting process so far with CFRC Halifax, is the lack of communication not only between them and myself but between themselves as well.
My example:
I call about my file and am told by Cpl XXXX that it is still open. I thank her and hang up.
5 minutes later I get a call from Capt XXXX saying that no, it is closed. I have to retake my PT test first and then resubmit everything over again. I call the booking line and book my retest.
I call up a week later to confirm my appt time and date and get forwarded to Cpl XXXX. She says my file is still open.
Even today, when I called again to confirm everything for my retest earlier this evening, she said it is still open and that I do not have to resubmit anything.
One more thing. When someone leaves a message for the CFRC, it is usually a good thing for them to return the call. I almost had to pay for my first PT test because they said they never received my messages to reschedule it. I had left three messages over a week and not one of them was ever returned.
Now, where is that thread where I can post the awesome stuff because my file manager right now is absolutely awesome and she deserves some sort of recognition.
My example:
I call about my file and am told by Cpl XXXX that it is still open. I thank her and hang up.
5 minutes later I get a call from Capt XXXX saying that no, it is closed. I have to retake my PT test first and then resubmit everything over again. I call the booking line and book my retest.
I call up a week later to confirm my appt time and date and get forwarded to Cpl XXXX. She says my file is still open.
Even today, when I called again to confirm everything for my retest earlier this evening, she said it is still open and that I do not have to resubmit anything.
One more thing. When someone leaves a message for the CFRC, it is usually a good thing for them to return the call. I almost had to pay for my first PT test because they said they never received my messages to reschedule it. I had left three messages over a week and not one of them was ever returned.
Now, where is that thread where I can post the awesome stuff because my file manager right now is absolutely awesome and she deserves some sort of recognition.
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If this is every CFRC then I suppose its fine, it seems CFRC Winnipeg closes at 3 o clock, which is mildly inconvenient for those going to school in the day without spares. The Master Corporal scheduling clerk does give next day service and is very efficient however, so that does make up for it, but a late shift would be alot more convenient for students.
K
Kunu
Guest
Here we go...
I first applied Feb 2003, and everything went rather well and reasonably quick (first visit to the unit, board, CFAT, PT test, second interview, and medical in about <3 months). However, I had a medical issue which required a year and a half on the waiting list to get an appointment with the right specialist. During this time, I even tried to get in touch with the RMO to ask if paying for a prompt appointment down south would be acceptable. I left N messages, and never got a single reply. The appointment date eventually came up, and the specialist signed off that I was able to meet the standard.
Taking this to the CFRC, I was told that since it had been so long, I had to hold on to my medical letter and start a fresh application. After going through all the steps again and submitting the letter during the medical stage, I received another form letter from the RMO stating I did not meet the enrolment standard. Upon enquiring, I was told that unless the medical evaluation was current, meaning within the last three months, it was not valid. This apparently important detail was never mentioned until after the fact, and even then it was only verbal. As a point of constructive criticism, I believe that such crucial details as this be clearly indicated on letters from the RMO, as "current" does not have any specific meaning. In addition, my reapplication process taking longer than these three months put me in a bit of a catch-22 situation.
So I was forced to get another appointment, which only took 4 months this time since the specialist knew I was fine and wouldn't take long. Anyways, things finally did work out this time, and as a matter of fact I got sworn in just a few weeks ago.;D
The way I see it, of the three years it took to get accepted, one was entirely due to bureaucratic problems. I realize that truly motivated people will stick it out, but at the same time, delays can wreak havoc with scheduling training, etc. For instance, I'm nearing the tail end of my university program, and it will obviously require greater sacrifices to get in summer courses when I'm done school.
Kilo Mike
P.S. I know I'm rambling on, but the story above also involved a standard case of lost paperwork, etc., which has been mentioned by others in these forums. One particular incident at the CFRC which POed me a bit (no, I didn't show it) occured when I had set up an appointment with Cpl. A. After heading down and informing Sgt. B at the front desk about it, I was told that Cpl. A was sick and not there that day. Not five seconds later does Cpl. A come walking out of the room right next to Sgt. B, at which time Sgt. B made an embarrassed retraction of his lie. I felt quite respected and appreciated at that time. :
I first applied Feb 2003, and everything went rather well and reasonably quick (first visit to the unit, board, CFAT, PT test, second interview, and medical in about <3 months). However, I had a medical issue which required a year and a half on the waiting list to get an appointment with the right specialist. During this time, I even tried to get in touch with the RMO to ask if paying for a prompt appointment down south would be acceptable. I left N messages, and never got a single reply. The appointment date eventually came up, and the specialist signed off that I was able to meet the standard.
Taking this to the CFRC, I was told that since it had been so long, I had to hold on to my medical letter and start a fresh application. After going through all the steps again and submitting the letter during the medical stage, I received another form letter from the RMO stating I did not meet the enrolment standard. Upon enquiring, I was told that unless the medical evaluation was current, meaning within the last three months, it was not valid. This apparently important detail was never mentioned until after the fact, and even then it was only verbal. As a point of constructive criticism, I believe that such crucial details as this be clearly indicated on letters from the RMO, as "current" does not have any specific meaning. In addition, my reapplication process taking longer than these three months put me in a bit of a catch-22 situation.
So I was forced to get another appointment, which only took 4 months this time since the specialist knew I was fine and wouldn't take long. Anyways, things finally did work out this time, and as a matter of fact I got sworn in just a few weeks ago.;D
The way I see it, of the three years it took to get accepted, one was entirely due to bureaucratic problems. I realize that truly motivated people will stick it out, but at the same time, delays can wreak havoc with scheduling training, etc. For instance, I'm nearing the tail end of my university program, and it will obviously require greater sacrifices to get in summer courses when I'm done school.
Kilo Mike
P.S. I know I'm rambling on, but the story above also involved a standard case of lost paperwork, etc., which has been mentioned by others in these forums. One particular incident at the CFRC which POed me a bit (no, I didn't show it) occured when I had set up an appointment with Cpl. A. After heading down and informing Sgt. B at the front desk about it, I was told that Cpl. A was sick and not there that day. Not five seconds later does Cpl. A come walking out of the room right next to Sgt. B, at which time Sgt. B made an embarrassed retraction of his lie. I felt quite respected and appreciated at that time. :
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When I went through the mill last year (Processed for ROTP) I dealt with CFRC Vancouver and I have to say my experience was excellent all around. There was no excessive waiting, all of the staff was very friendly and accessible for any questions or issues that I had. They really made me feel like I was being looked after. After my eye exam (I was initially being processed for Pilot) I couldn't see well enough to read, so they even had someone read the paperwork to me that I needed to sign.
I am really suprised to see CFRC Vancouver leading the poll.
Planes
I am really suprised to see CFRC Vancouver leading the poll.
Planes
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Kilo Mike said:Here we go...
I first applied Feb 2003, and everything went rather well and reasonably quick (first visit to the unit, board, CFAT, PT test, second interview, and medical in about <3 months). However, I had a medical issue which required a year and a half on the waiting list to get an appointment with the right specialist. During this time, I even tried to get in touch with the RMO to ask if paying for a prompt appointment down south would be acceptable. I left N messages, and never got a single reply. The appointment date eventually came up, and the specialist signed off that I was able to meet the standard.
Taking this to the CFRC, I was told that since it had been so long, I had to hold on to my medical letter and start a fresh application. After going through all the steps again and submitting the letter during the medical stage, I received another form letter from the RMO stating I did not meet the enrolment standard. Upon enquiring, I was told that unless the medical evaluation was current, meaning within the last three months, it was not valid. This apparently important detail was never mentioned until after the fact, and even then it was only verbal. As a point of constructive criticism, I believe that such crucial details as this be clearly indicated on letters from the RMO, as "current" does not have any specific meaning. In addition, my reapplication process taking longer than these three months put me in a bit of a catch-22 situation.
So I was forced to get another appointment, which only took 4 months this time since the specialist knew I was fine and wouldn't take long. Anyways, things finally did work out this time, and as a matter of fact I got sworn in just a few weeks ago.;D
The way I see it, of the three years it took to get accepted, one was entirely due to bureaucratic problems. I realize that truly motivated people will stick it out, but at the same time, delays can wreak havoc with scheduling training, etc. For instance, I'm nearing the tail end of my university program, and it will obviously require greater sacrifices to get in summer courses when I'm done school.
Kilo Mike
P.S. I know I'm rambling on, but the story above also involved a standard case of lost paperwork, etc., which has been mentioned by others in these forums. One particular incident at the CFRC which POed me a bit (no, I didn't show it) occured when I had set up an appointment with Cpl. A. After heading down and informing Sgt. B at the front desk about it, I was told that Cpl. A was sick and not there that day. Not five seconds later does Cpl. A come walking out of the room right next to Sgt. B, at which time Sgt. B made an embarrassed retraction of his lie. I felt quite respected and appreciated at that time. :
Which CFRC/D?
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Ever since Air Cadets, I wanted to be a CF Pilot. My first experience was applying to RMC in high school. No complaints, just didn't make it. So I tried for reserve Infantry - didn't get in for the summer BMQ.
So I went away to a civilian university...studying a subject I didn't really care for, holding a sour disposition towards the CF. In my second year, I applied for Pilot. Despite having 20/20, qualifying on the CFAT, decent grades in school, leadership qualities, blah blah, I was counseled out for having admitted to trying pot no more than 3 times that year. Wow. I was told that my drug "habits" were unacceptable in the CF, and I could apply again in 6 months. I walked away from the recruiting center wondering where they were going to find all the applicants that had never tried pot before in their life. Totally discouraged, I never bothered to apply again 6 months later.
So, moving ahead to June 2005, I decided to apply again. Having been frustrated with the Officer application experience, and my vision having deterioted to 20/25, I thought I may be better suited as an Infantry NCM. I contacted a recruiter in Toronto, went in to get the forms - and got super pumped. The Sgt. told me that I had a chance to get for September BMQ! Filled out all the forms right away and gave them to her. Didn't hear anything for 3 weeks. So phoned the Sgt. and she gave me a new number to call. I called that number and they said they needed to get my file from Halifax (where I previously applied for Pilot). Fair enough I thought. 3 weeks go by and I call the CFRD in Toronto. I'm told that they are waiting for Halifax to send my file. 3 more weeks...nothing. So I phone up and ask if I can have the number to the Halifax CFRD. I phone them up only to hear this "Oh, we never received a request to transfer your file". %$#^%#%$#^%!!!!!!!!
Anyway, it took about 4 months to get my file transferred. When it finally was, I got to do the medical, interview and PT. I must say, the staff at this CFRD were very helpful and friendly. So all that was finished and it was time for me to wait. The only thing holding up my merit listing now is the ERC. It has been over a month since the request was sent out for the ERC, and no word.
Getting anxious, I started researching other trades that I may be qualified for. When I phone the recruiting center asking if I could add some more trades to my app, I spoke with a VERY helpful 2nd Leitenant, who explained what each trade did. He also mentioned that I may be qualified for ROTP or CEOTP. I was excited. So I switched my application to ROTP and I'm just getting them the appropriate paperwork.
The only thing I can fault the CFRD for is taking so long to transfer my file. That, and the god awful waiting that everyone goes through.
So I went away to a civilian university...studying a subject I didn't really care for, holding a sour disposition towards the CF. In my second year, I applied for Pilot. Despite having 20/20, qualifying on the CFAT, decent grades in school, leadership qualities, blah blah, I was counseled out for having admitted to trying pot no more than 3 times that year. Wow. I was told that my drug "habits" were unacceptable in the CF, and I could apply again in 6 months. I walked away from the recruiting center wondering where they were going to find all the applicants that had never tried pot before in their life. Totally discouraged, I never bothered to apply again 6 months later.
So, moving ahead to June 2005, I decided to apply again. Having been frustrated with the Officer application experience, and my vision having deterioted to 20/25, I thought I may be better suited as an Infantry NCM. I contacted a recruiter in Toronto, went in to get the forms - and got super pumped. The Sgt. told me that I had a chance to get for September BMQ! Filled out all the forms right away and gave them to her. Didn't hear anything for 3 weeks. So phoned the Sgt. and she gave me a new number to call. I called that number and they said they needed to get my file from Halifax (where I previously applied for Pilot). Fair enough I thought. 3 weeks go by and I call the CFRD in Toronto. I'm told that they are waiting for Halifax to send my file. 3 more weeks...nothing. So I phone up and ask if I can have the number to the Halifax CFRD. I phone them up only to hear this "Oh, we never received a request to transfer your file". %$#^%#%$#^%!!!!!!!!
Anyway, it took about 4 months to get my file transferred. When it finally was, I got to do the medical, interview and PT. I must say, the staff at this CFRD were very helpful and friendly. So all that was finished and it was time for me to wait. The only thing holding up my merit listing now is the ERC. It has been over a month since the request was sent out for the ERC, and no word.
Getting anxious, I started researching other trades that I may be qualified for. When I phone the recruiting center asking if I could add some more trades to my app, I spoke with a VERY helpful 2nd Leitenant, who explained what each trade did. He also mentioned that I may be qualified for ROTP or CEOTP. I was excited. So I switched my application to ROTP and I'm just getting them the appropriate paperwork.
The only thing I can fault the CFRD for is taking so long to transfer my file. That, and the god awful waiting that everyone goes through.
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"I was counseled out for having admitted to trying pot no more than 3 times that year."
Hmmm...If you say so.
Problems do occur in recruiting, like any large bureaucracy, but I feel the need for some explanation:
Recruiting staff work 8 hours a day, just like most other office workers in the world. Thing is, we start at 0800, not 0900. That's why after 1600 it's hard to get hold of anyone. The Centre itself is often open until 1700, but only a skeleton crew stays that late; to do basic admin and keep the doors open for walk-ins. If it's an officer or recruiter that you are calling and getting no answer, it's most likely that they are either out of the office (as their duties often require them to be), or in an interview. Your interviewer sometimes has as much as 4 hours worth of interviewing in a day. If you want to be more successful at finding a "real" person, call early, not late. And on that subject, I know lots of career counsellors who make calls on the weekend, on their own time.
Recruiting centres, in fact, have very limited resources, especially in manpower. I'm personally filling two positions at the moment. The file managers work flat out from 0800 to 1600. I couldn't do their job - it's absolutely mind numbing. My centre processes more than 2500 files a year. Recruiting centres also suffer from high turnover of personnel. Many are reserve, and come and go rather quickly, making it difficult to maintain numbers of trained staff. Yet despite the limited financial and human resources, I can think of few organization that go to the extent that the CF does in helping applicants get hired, and indeed providing opportunities to those who'd be in deadend jobs on civy street.
CF recruitment waiting times are actually less on average than for local police, RCMP, fire services, or other such organizations. The RCMP has actually been studying the CF system because it is more efficient.
Toronto and Vancouver are probably highest on the poll because their populations present the largest number of issue that slow down the system, and generally place strain on the processing power of the centre; generating more paperwork, requiring more phone calls, taking up more man hours, and basically creating complications that affect all the applicants in that area; resulting in more displeasure.
Hmmm...If you say so.
Problems do occur in recruiting, like any large bureaucracy, but I feel the need for some explanation:
Recruiting staff work 8 hours a day, just like most other office workers in the world. Thing is, we start at 0800, not 0900. That's why after 1600 it's hard to get hold of anyone. The Centre itself is often open until 1700, but only a skeleton crew stays that late; to do basic admin and keep the doors open for walk-ins. If it's an officer or recruiter that you are calling and getting no answer, it's most likely that they are either out of the office (as their duties often require them to be), or in an interview. Your interviewer sometimes has as much as 4 hours worth of interviewing in a day. If you want to be more successful at finding a "real" person, call early, not late. And on that subject, I know lots of career counsellors who make calls on the weekend, on their own time.
Recruiting centres, in fact, have very limited resources, especially in manpower. I'm personally filling two positions at the moment. The file managers work flat out from 0800 to 1600. I couldn't do their job - it's absolutely mind numbing. My centre processes more than 2500 files a year. Recruiting centres also suffer from high turnover of personnel. Many are reserve, and come and go rather quickly, making it difficult to maintain numbers of trained staff. Yet despite the limited financial and human resources, I can think of few organization that go to the extent that the CF does in helping applicants get hired, and indeed providing opportunities to those who'd be in deadend jobs on civy street.
CF recruitment waiting times are actually less on average than for local police, RCMP, fire services, or other such organizations. The RCMP has actually been studying the CF system because it is more efficient.
Toronto and Vancouver are probably highest on the poll because their populations present the largest number of issue that slow down the system, and generally place strain on the processing power of the centre; generating more paperwork, requiring more phone calls, taking up more man hours, and basically creating complications that affect all the applicants in that area; resulting in more displeasure.
I wasn't going to post this as a "complaint" because I'm really in no rush to get processed, but I'll post this anyways. This is with regards to CFRC Toronto. I signed, dated, and submitted my Forces application (along with all necessary documentation) on January 09, 2006. I heard nothing from anyone for nearly two months. On February 28, 2006 I called the CFRC Toronto because I was having cell phone problems, and wanted to make sure they could call me if there was a problem or a date/timing that I needed to know about, so I needed to make sure they knew my home phone number. When I called them up and had this problem resolved, the recruiter said something along the lines of "Oh, your application is about ready to go... You should come in and write your CFAT." This was said as if he was surprised that my application wasn't already being processed, as if someone had forgotten all about me for nearly two months.
When I did my Forces interview the recruiter stated that had I applied back in January, I would probably already have been merit listed, or I might already have received my job offer. I made him aware that my application was submitted on January 09.
Like I said, I'm really in no rush to get through the process here so I really had nothing to gripe about.
When I did my Forces interview the recruiter stated that had I applied back in January, I would probably already have been merit listed, or I might already have received my job offer. I made him aware that my application was submitted on January 09.
Like I said, I'm really in no rush to get through the process here so I really had nothing to gripe about.
K
Kunu
Guest
kincanucks said:
Toronto
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Well, only good to say so far for the CFRC in Hali...that is not where the problems have lie that I have experienced.
I started my application 06 June 05 and after 10 months was so frustrated I could have pulled every hair out of my head. The process involved me chasing down the Unit Recruiter steady for any info or updates...to push for the next phase of the application...sigh. I wrote email after email and placed calls frequently...
So after the 10 months I decided that I am hell bent on becoming a member of the CF so I contacted the Recruiter @ CFRC in Hali who has been most helpful and empathetic. Although he could not offer an explanation for the length of time...he did offer me an alternative...
I flipped my application to a Reg application...just started that process...a little over a week ago...all of the testing is complete and paperwork...so we'll see.
His professionalism and the whole experience I have had @ CFRC Hali has been a positive one.
Just gotta hang in there...lol
HL
I started my application 06 June 05 and after 10 months was so frustrated I could have pulled every hair out of my head. The process involved me chasing down the Unit Recruiter steady for any info or updates...to push for the next phase of the application...sigh. I wrote email after email and placed calls frequently...
So after the 10 months I decided that I am hell bent on becoming a member of the CF so I contacted the Recruiter @ CFRC in Hali who has been most helpful and empathetic. Although he could not offer an explanation for the length of time...he did offer me an alternative...
I flipped my application to a Reg application...just started that process...a little over a week ago...all of the testing is complete and paperwork...so we'll see.
His professionalism and the whole experience I have had @ CFRC Hali has been a positive one.
Just gotta hang in there...lol
HL
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So far so good. I have applied to a Reserve Unit in Toronto and my expereince has been great, so far at least. The night I handed in my application it was given directly to a person working at the CFRC who brought it in person. The next day I had my CFAT booked for the following week. After my test I had my interview and medical booked for the next week. I am impressed with CFRC Toronto, they seem to have their act together compared to some of the other centres listed in the posts. They were well organized and on time. I am extremly happy with CFRC Toronto.
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I am going to add to my previous complaint.
This is through CFRC Halifax.
I was re interviewed on May 15 and accepted and was told I was going to be put on the merit list.
I called up on May 25 and was directed to speak to the NCM cell Cpl. I was transferred and left a msg. Today I decided to call back in case I was forgotten. I was met with a nasty attitude, almost a "how dare you call me" type. I asked about how the process is going with my application and I was told that it was transferred to another Capt today after the other Capt had held onto it for 2 weeks. I was then told, and I quote "people in this office have not been in, been on leave, and we are opening a new office, so we do not have the time to get everything done". I asked what the process entails from here and was told that the other Capt will review it, like a quality assurance thing, and then it will be sent to the NCM cell where they will go through it and see what I need to do. I have no clue what else I need to do since I have finished all my testing and passed.
They are having serious issues with returning phone calls, and the attitude was completely uncalled for.
I am starting to feel like this is nothing but a game to them, and even now my husband has directed me to call the ombudsman about this.
I told him I will wait a little longer and see if I am met with the same attitude as I was today.
This is through CFRC Halifax.
I was re interviewed on May 15 and accepted and was told I was going to be put on the merit list.
I called up on May 25 and was directed to speak to the NCM cell Cpl. I was transferred and left a msg. Today I decided to call back in case I was forgotten. I was met with a nasty attitude, almost a "how dare you call me" type. I asked about how the process is going with my application and I was told that it was transferred to another Capt today after the other Capt had held onto it for 2 weeks. I was then told, and I quote "people in this office have not been in, been on leave, and we are opening a new office, so we do not have the time to get everything done". I asked what the process entails from here and was told that the other Capt will review it, like a quality assurance thing, and then it will be sent to the NCM cell where they will go through it and see what I need to do. I have no clue what else I need to do since I have finished all my testing and passed.
They are having serious issues with returning phone calls, and the attitude was completely uncalled for.
I am starting to feel like this is nothing but a game to them, and even now my husband has directed me to call the ombudsman about this.
I told him I will wait a little longer and see if I am met with the same attitude as I was today.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
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You have been reading (I hope) these forums for some time (with over 600 posts to your credit.) so I hope by now you would have a feel of how the Recruiting Process works and how it varies from place to place, applicant to applicant, and time of day, month or year. Other factors, such as Course dates, space available, etc. also come into play. You have just been told that the Center that you are going to, is in the middle of Leave, Postings and a major move. Just more factors to add to the problems faced with new Recruits and the time involved to process them. I would advise patience. I would disregard any advice to call an Ombudsman, just because of these problems and perhaps someone having a bad hair day. That could make matters worse. Yes, you may get some answers by using the Ombudsman card, but in the end you may land up screwing your chances as a 'clerk' circle files your file. If 'husband's advice' is the way he normally operates, he may find that he alienates himself from the people he is supposed to be a "team player" with in the process. Not a good bit of advice in the long run.
The Ombudsman should only be a Last Resort.
The Ombudsman should only be a Last Resort.
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http://www.ottawacitizen.com/touch/news/Inept+recruiting+system+costing+Canadian+Forces+kinds+candidates/9633356/story.html?rel=825269
Thats an article about how slow the process is.
Thats an article about how slow the process is.
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DAA said:Yup, and it's far too kind.
Far Far too kind.
