Gorgo
Full Member
- Reaction score
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Bow, Saskatchewan, Thompson, Nelson. There is country left of Ontario.
Watch: Ottawa is going to be repeated in this class!
Bow, Saskatchewan, Thompson, Nelson. There is country left of Ontario.
In some cases; but for a lot of things the improvements are so incremental that it's still basically the same footprint. Energy efficiency is relative as well; computers are more energy efficient relatively but more complex stuff means much more raw computing power which increases actual power demands marginally, and tends to need more cooling as well.Not to mention that as technology advances, it often gets smaller, lighter and mor energy efficient.
I will argue that the more dedicated ASW ships like the Halifax's are becoming more obsolete and multipurpose ships like the River Class which can do both ASW and AD well is the answer to the multitude of potentiel threats, both traditional and new.I would be careful to fall into doom and gloom "everything is made obsolete by drones" trap that many people are strangely obsessed with, given how it has not proven to be true.
Naval drones utilized by the Houthi's in the Red Sea and the Ukrainian's in the Black Sea have had absolutely horrid success rates, that is especially notable in the case of the Russians who have nowhere near the training and equipment to counter small boat threats. Naval drones are no different than dealing with massed small boat attacks, frigates like CSC are easily able to counter these threats through their main, secondary and even tertiary guns found aboard. There was recently a Houthi USV destroyed attacking a civilian tanker by armed guards firing FAL's off the bridge wings. Missiles are also effective in dealing with these systems as well, the Russians have begun using helicopters to slaughter the Ukrainian USV's to decent effect. Look no further than the countless USV's and aerial drones piled up by the task forces operating in the Red Sea.
Aerial drones are similar, easy to punch out of the sky with basically any system found aboard. There is plenty of developments that can deepen magazines aboard warships to better deal with swarming threats, that isn't even touching on the electronic warfare element which kills more drones in Ukraine than any other means. CSC is planned to be batch constructed, so it seems doubtful the RCN will sit back and let their vessels rot into irrelevance. Look at changes such as the removal of CAMM for RAM, they are adapting the design already to changing situational requirements. Warships are large floating mounting points with ample crew and power generation to run sophisticated jamming and spoofing, considering they already do in the case of ships like CSC with their current electronic warfare and decoy suites.
I don't see any trends that point towards surface vessels like CSC becoming irrelevant anything in the foreseeable future. People have been saying that the tank is obsolete or irrelevant since its inception but here it remains, a vital part of most land forces.
That's a design choice for sure. But we would be losing flexibility and future proofing to go down that path.and if we get rid of the mission deck to add missile capacity?
The more I read about DE weapons, the less I'm convinced that they will truly ever replace kinetic munitions (look up 'blooming').That's a design choice for sure. But we would be losing flexibility and future proofing to go down that path.
What if in a few years DE weapons become extremely effective, then all those missiles launchers are suboptimal.
Mission bay helps with future proofing and other missions our ships always do without sacrificing for a single warfare set.
I've never heard you say this, but it is a good saying.I've been saying for years, drones are just bad missiles most of the time.
Drones are working today only because we failed to develop the antidotes at the same time we developed the vehicle. As aviation has found out, by controlling the frequencies you can mitigate much of the benefits of drones except and unless those drones are operating on a canned INS course. A fleet of SkyRaiders would make short work of most of the airborne style and I suspect that the marine versions can be dealt with with reasonably inexpensive weapons provided you are prepared for them. In other words, older weapon systems with new applications. Automation is not a total solution.The more I read about DE weapons, the less I'm convinced that they will truly ever replace kinetic munitions (look up 'blooming').
I've never heard you say this, but it is a good saying.
Eventually I'm going to rebuttal your longer post about dynamic shifts in the nature of sea warfare, but for now I'll just clarify on my early comment that I don't just think it's drones as weapons that will change the naval warfare paradigm, but drones as ISR platforms, drones as payload carriers, drones as offboard ECM and ECCM, drones as AEW a/c, etc.
Montreal River is right by Sault Ste MarieChaudiere, Gatineau, Kootenay, Margaree, Qu'appelle, Restigouche, Saskatchewan, Annapolis, Columbia, Hamilton, Niagara, Terra Nova, Yukon, Nipigon. That's 14 more without using another saint or recycling Ottawa yet again. And all of them have been in use in the RCN for vessels named after rivers.
I'd like to see HMCS Detroit personally.Montreal River is right by Sault Ste Marie![]()
Just using that as a random example to make a point. So many missions we do require the space of a mission bay.The more I read about DE weapons, the less I'm convinced that they will truly ever replace kinetic munitions (look up 'blooming').
It's been a long time since we were on the same coast! LolI've never heard you say this, but it is a good saying.
Eventually I'm going to rebuttal your longer post about dynamic shifts in the nature of sea warfare, but for now I'll just clarify on my early comment that I don't just think it's drones as weapons that will change the naval warfare paradigm, but drones as ISR platforms, drones as payload carriers, drones as offboard ECM and ECCM, drones as AEW a/c, etc.
It would also have fitted with Harper's 1812 fetish.I'd like to see HMCS Detroit personally.
Y'all need to stop snubbing Steeltown and give the Hammer a damn ship!I personally don't see the RCN going for any new names, I expect them to reuse the old River class destroyer names from previous classes.
HMCS Chedoke Creek..... not sure if the people of Hamilton will be happy with that selectionY'all need to stop snubbing Steeltown and give the Hammer a damn ship!
Most would probably ask "why are you naming it after a golf course?".HMCS Chedoke Creek..... not sure if the people of Hamilton will be happy with that selection