Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

[Fabius]

Not trying to simplify it down to a single weapon system vs a whole package but were not the historical considerations based somewhat on the caliber of guns and or overall weapons outfit?
I am imagining the number of VLS as being considered the same as 4 inch vs 5inch vs 8 inch guns etc. for older classifications.
Should staying power factor into the classifications?

 

[KevinB]

The what do you call a primary ASuW ship?

A SSN

 

[SeaKingTacco]

A SSN

I like where your head is at…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The what do you call a primary ASuW ship?

A tribal Class Destroyer

 

[Lumber]

A SSN

Atta boy.

 

[calculus]

Finally - steel cut for first CSC. to happen today. The Minister is claiming in the article below the first in "early 2030s", but 9 by 2040. That's a pretty quick drumbeat....

Canadian defence minister speaks about upcoming Navy ships, national defence budget

Thursday marked a milestone for the Canadian Navy with the beginning of construction on the long-awaited 'Canadian Surface Combatant' ships.

atlantic.ctvnews.ca

 

[Navy_Pete]

Finally - steel cut for first CSC. to happen today. The Minister is claiming in the article below the first in "early 2030s", but 9 by 2040. That's a pretty quick drumbeat....

Canadian defence minister speaks about upcoming Navy ships, national defence budget

Thursday marked a milestone for the Canadian Navy with the beginning of construction on the long-awaited 'Canadian Surface Combatant' ships.

atlantic.ctvnews.ca

I think it might be a combination of 9 delivered and in production; at any given point they will likely have 4 ships on the go at full production rate. It's expected they will eventually get down to 1 a year, but the first one would likely take a lot longer with a sliding scale.

These 'cut steel' demos are a bit of a dog and pony show though; this isn't going into ship 1 and they are just going to be doing some test modules to get the welding and fitup parameters figured out. It's much thinner steel compared to AOPs so they will have a lot more issues with heat distortion that needs to be figured out. It's also things like sequencing etc and how much temp bracing is needed, so a bit of a puzzle piece to figure out. It's site specific enough that they will need to fine tune from a basic starting point for that type of steel and thickness.

Or they are smoking the good dope and feeling optimistic, while ignoring all the delays due to politics on top of normal project risks.

 

[PuckChaser]

Assuming early 2030s is at best 2031, is it not a bit ridiculous that it'll be a minimum of 7 years for the first ship in an absolute best case scenarios? The Arleigh Burkes are around 4 years,and my assumption is CSC building speeds up as they make more but yikes that's a long time...

 

[dapaterson]

Or they are smoking the good dope and feeling optimistic, while ignoring all the delays due to politics on top of normal project risks.

So... As per SOP then...

 

[Nvlgzr]

I think it might be a combination of 9 delivered and in production; at any given point they will likely have 4 ships on the go at full production rate. It's expected they will eventually get down to 1 a year, but the first one would likely take a lot longer with a sliding scale.

These 'cut steel' demos are a bit of a dog and pony show though; this isn't going into ship 1 and they are just going to be doing some test modules to get the welding and fitup parameters figured out. It's much thinner steel compared to AOPs so they will have a lot more issues with heat distortion that needs to be figured out. It's also things like sequencing etc and how much temp bracing is needed, so a bit of a puzzle piece to figure out. It's site specific enough that they will need to fine tune from a basic starting point for that type of steel and thickness.

Or they are smoking the good dope and feeling optimistic, while ignoring all the delays due to politics on top of normal project risks.

It must be good dope. In that same article the Minister says, “Our defence budget, for example, next year over this is going to increase 27 per cent. It’s really important that we get real value for Canadians for that huge investment in defence.”. 27% year over year. How is that possible? He must be confusing parliamentarians pay increase with his budget.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Assuming early 2030s is at best 2031, is it not a bit ridiculous that it'll be a minimum of 7 years for the first ship in an absolute best case scenarios? The Arleigh Burkes are around 4 years,and my assumption is CSC building speeds up as they make more but yikes that's a long time...

A bit unfair to compare Canada to the military shipbuilding giant of the US, look at the UK's Type 26 build times and that is likely a much fairer comparison.

 

[dapaterson]

It must be good dope. In that same article the Minister says, “Our defence budget, for example, next year over this is going to increase 27 per cent. It’s really important that we get real value for Canadians for that huge investment in defence.”. 27% year over year. How is that possible? He must be confusing parliamentarians pay increase with his budget.

On a cash basis (not accrual), if there are major milestone payments for large projects you may see year over year spikes.

Accounting is a hell of a drug...

 

[Rainbow1910]

CSC is known as the River class Destroyers, first three ships named HMCS Fraser, HMCS Mackenzie and HMCS Saguenay I think?

 

[Underway]

CSC is known as the River class Destroyers, first three ships named HMCS Fraser, HMCS Mackenzie and HMCS Saguenay I think?

Source?

 

[FSTO]

CSC is known as the River class Destroyers, first three ships named HMCS Fraser, HMCS Mackenzie and HMCS Saguenay I think?

You are almost correct, Saint Laurent vice Saguenay
Also the Land Based Testing Facility at Hartlen Point will be called Assiniboine

 

[Rainbow1910]

Source?

I’m watching the unveiling livestream on CTV News right now.

 

[Underway]

This video just released does a pretty good job of selling the name and why it was chosen.

River Class Destroyer

They check a lot of boxes. Represent Canada, nod to naval history, distinctly Canadian, lots of historical River class names to draw from, connects with Canadians of all kinds who live near these rivers.

The River Class do call back to the heady days of the RCN driving innovation and pushing the envelope (rotary air at sea, variable depth sonar and other such new ideas).

 

[Rainbow1910]

Yeah correction, it’s HMCS Fraser, HMCS St. Laurent and HMCS Mackenzie. Getting my Rivers mixed up.

 

[GR66]

This video just released does a pretty good job of selling the name and why it was chosen.

River Class Destroyer

They check a lot of boxes. Represent Canada, nod to naval history, distinctly Canadian, lots of historical River class names to draw from, connects with Canadians of all kinds who live near these rivers.

The River Class do call back to the heady days of the RCN driving innovation and pushing the envelope (rotary air at sea, variable depth sonar and other such new ideas).

Works for me.

And even if the CSC design turns out to be a flop there are still appropriate naming options...HMCS Schitt's Creek?

 

[Underway]

DDG not DDH. Thats an interesting decision in the classification. Indicates that the primary weapon for the ship is the missiles not the helicopter.