"Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"

[Eye In The Sky]

Improper Comments - 90% of the posts on the whole forum could fall under this.  What, then, in the whole 10 minute video, would one consider improper comments?

I would, personally, go with the whole *give all your clothes back...this is a British colony* blurb from the flag bearer.  IMO, that was the only stuff that *may* have crossed a line.

 

[The Baron]

Improper Comments - 90% of the posts on the whole forum could fall under this.  What, then, in the whole 10 minute video, would one consider improper comments?

I would, personally, go with the whole *give all your clothes back...this is a British colony* blurb from the flag bearer.  IMO, that was the only stuff that *may* have crossed a line.

I haven't seen the video in entirety, however I think its more likely the DAOD's and Values and Ethics policy will be the most applicable here particularly their association with the proud boys.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

their association with the proud boys.

And I think this part is what is giving this the traction it is getting with the media and (some) of the public.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I didn't forget, just thought my post was long enough, and I am not quite sure if The Proud Boys qualify as a political organization.

I don't think the "Proud Boys" meet the definition at all. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't think the "Proud Boys" meet the definition at all.

Agree. 

Political "organization"?  Very >>slim<< maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe, depending on how they deal with governments re:  their agenda & what they want from government, and how the term is defined.  Political "party"?  Can't see it from the group's current public offerings.  YMMV

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I think a group or organization that is contrary to established CAF Ethics and Values fits more.

7.2 For CF members

7.2.1 A CF member who fails to comply with ethical principles, values, expected behaviour or the policies of the DND and CF Code of Values and Ethics, or fails to comply with the DAOD 7023 series, may be subject to one or more of the following: 
a.change of duties;
b.release or other administrative action as set out in the Administrative Review (AR) Career Decisions block of DAOD 5019-2, Administrative Review; and/or

c.disciplinary action under the National Defence Act.

 

[Underway]

Agree. 

Political "organization"?  Very >>slim<< maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe, depending on how they deal with governments re:  their agenda & what they want from government, and how the term is defined.  Political "party"?  Can't see it from the group's current public offerings.  YMMV

To get to the fourth level of their organization one needs to go to a political protest where there are "antifa's" (antifacists) and counter protest with the goal of getting in a fight and either a) get arrested or  b) get beat up.  They are starting to provide volunteer security for controversial right speakers in the US, and are calling themselves the Alt-Knights.  Yah, thats a political organization.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Don't you worry, the legal beagles and defenders of correctness are staying up nights trying to find the biggest, heaviest books available to throw at these golf shirt wearing thugs.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Western chauvinism" is basically another form of cultural dick-waving, of which there is a lot around these days, much of it enjoying a form of socially "protected" status.  But it isn't racism.

Some people - particularly in the chattering classes - need to come to grips with the realization that "the West" (western civilization) is awesome and has a long list of worthwhile achievements along with its black spots, and that there is no racial bar to becoming a member.  I know plenty of people who are not visibly pale, with no or little heritage of European extraction, and who are essentially as western as me.

In other news, archaeologists in Mexico announced the discovery of a legendary tower of skulls.  It is not an achievement of "the West".

 

[The Bread Guy]

I think a group or organization that is contrary to established CAF Ethics and Values fits more ...

:nod:

 

[jollyjacktar]

I have to agree with some of their views insomuch as I'm tired of being blamed for all the ills of the world by virtue of my heritage and ethnicity.  I am in agreement that western civilization is a good thing and has contributed to the world overall.  Their golf shirts are tasteful in appearance.  Antifa idiots are annoying at times but then so are the other side idiots.  But that's pretty much as far as I'll travel down the same path as I am not cool with anti-semites and no doubt there's more about the Proud Boys that's disagreeable.

I am very saddened to see the over reaction by the adults and massive shows of men in black spandex with music waving their arms and dancing like in that commercial.  The 5 in question are going to be thrown under a bus I fear to appease the thin skinned mobs who only howl in one direction.  Should something be done with them for their membership and stirring a pot?  Yes, to some degree but this smells of a blanket party in the making, not reasoned response.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It appears that the proud boys are more inclusive to gays than the Catholic Church and Islam.

 

[The Baron]

I have to agree with some of their views insomuch as I'm tired of being blamed for all the ills of the world by virtue of my heritage and ethnicity.  I am in agreement that western civilization is a good thing and has contributed to the world overall.  Their golf shirts are tasteful in appearance.  Antifa idiots are annoying at times but then so are the other side idiots.  But that's pretty much as far as I'll travel down the same path as I am not cool with anti-semites and no doubt there's more about the Proud Boys that's disagreeable.

I am very saddened to see the over reaction by the adults and massive shows of men in black spandex with music waving their arms and dancing like in that commercial.  The 5 in question are going to be thrown under a bus I fear to appease the thin skinned mobs who only howl in one direction.  Should something be done with them for their membership and stirring a pot?  Yes, to some degree but this smells of a blanket party in the making, not reasoned response.

I highlighted the relevant parts of your post. Do the proud boys, overtly cross any lines? No, not from what I can tell, however they come awful close sometimes, occasionally saying its satire. And it would be naive to think that there aren't those within this organization (and other organizations) who DO hold overtly racist views, they're just smart enough to keep their mouths shut.  All it would take is just one tweet or facebook post or comment in a bar, that crossed the line, and became public, and everyone involved WILL get tagged with the guilty by association brush, deservedly or not. You know this, I know this, and I am sure everyone right on up to the CDS knows this.

Which seems to me the reason why there are rules in place to get approval prior to joining or participating in such groups, and I think that is what will ultimately hang them. 

 

[The Baron]

It appears that the proud boys are more inclusive to gays than the Catholic Church and Islam.

Difference being Catholicism/Islam are religions which have charter protections.  And if one were to look at from a hierarchical perspective, freedom of conscience and religion is listed first in the charter.

 

[George Wallace]

.......And it would be naive to think that there aren't those within this organization (and other organizations) who DO hold overtly racist views, they're just smart enough to keep their mouths shut.  All it would take is just one tweet or facebook post or comment in a bar, that crossed the line, and became public, and everyone involved WILL get tagged with the guilty by association brush, deservedly or not. You know this, I know this, and I am sure everyone right on up to the CDS knows this.

I think you can apply that logic to all organizations, religions, societies, etc.  No one is exempt.

 

[jollyjacktar]

It appears that the proud boys are more inclusive to gays than the Catholic Church and Islam.

Ah, good.  Yes, missed that point.  No issue with that.

 

[The Baron]

I think you can apply that logic to all organizations, religions, societies, etc.  No one is exempt.

The majority don't act in quite the same provocative fashion though, with a "leader" deliberately stirring the pot wherever and whenever he can.

 

[George Wallace]

The majority don't act in quite the same provocative fashion though, with a "leader" deliberately stirring the pot wherever and whenever he can.

Hmmmm?  I don't know about that.  We have just witness a few leaders really "stirring the pot" in the past couple weeks.  Some recognize it.  Some people just ignore it, or accept it as part of their "leader's" position to do so.  Leaders quite often stir their followers on to do their bidding.

 

[The Baron]

Hmmmm?  I don't know about that.  We have just witness a few leaders really "stirring the pot" in the past couple weeks.  Some recognize it.  Some people just ignore it, or accept it as part of their "leader's" position to do so.  Leaders quite often stir their followers on to do their bidding.

Really like who? I haven't seen any local legion halls, Shriners, Masons, Scout/Guide/St. John Ambulance Groups, Church/Mosque/Temple groups, YM/WCA groups, Rotary, Lions, etc. etc. (you see where I am going with this), making ANY news outside perhaps a local/community newspaper.

I think you can apply that logic to all organizations, religions, societies, etc.  No one is exempt.

Perhaps don't take half a quote, and reply to it out of context.

Go away for 2 years and things are still the same around here.

 

[gryphonv]

Really like who? I haven't seen any local legion halls, Shriners, Masons, Scout/Guide/St. John Ambulance Groups, Church/Mosque/Temple groups, YM/WCA groups, Rotary, Lions, etc. etc. (you see where I am going with this), making ANY news outside perhaps a local/community newspaper.

See that is where this should of ended. This incident should of never made it past the local/community newspaper.

The proverbial 'mountain out of a molehill' applies here perfectly.

The ball of shit from this kept growing and could of been stopped at many levels before certain politicians decided to speak on it, making it national.

The 'damage control' from this has only empowered a very vocal minority.