BFT+Air Force deployment policy...I don't get it !!!!

[Eye In The Sky]

I was army for years and have not quite a year and a half in the Air Force environment day to day and all I can say is from the military perspective, you are talking two different cultures and mindsets IMHO.

 

[MCpl Burtoo]

I am an ex-grunt who is now Air Force and I miss the Army everyday!!!!  :crybaby: Since it was a medical remuster, I do not think I will go back to the mother ship!! The Air Force has different  R & Os with respect to the way it does things, having said that it shouldn't! We are suppose to be the Canadian Forces! Everday I fight the good fight and let my Supervisors know how things should be done with no joy! Be professional, speak up and good things will come your way! Don't sweat the things that you can't control.....you will only get angry!!!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am an ex-grunt who is now Air Force and I miss the Army everyday!!!!  :crybaby: Since it was a medical remuster, I do not think I will go back to the mother ship!! The Air Force has different  R & Os with respect to the way it does things, having said that it shouldn't! We are suppose to be the Canadian Forces! Everday I fight the good fight and let my Supervisors know how things should be done with no joy! Be professional, speak up and good things will come your way! Don't sweat the things that you can't control.....you will only get angry!!!

Egad they are converting you!  I hate the word "supervisors" in relation to anyone who has a rank.  My pet peeve.  We have subordinates, peers/equals, and superiors.  Dammit.  (No I am not angry...just another round peg in a square hole  )  Supervisors work at...Walmart and...Burger King.  This is where I must invoke the term mivilian.  (mah-vill-yen:  one who is not really military in mindset or deportment, yet subject to the CSD and in the CF.  See rank "hey buddy".)  ;D

 

[zorro]

LOL

Embrace it!!!

 

[MCpl Burtoo]

  I hate the word "supervisors" in relation to anyone who has a rank.  My pet peeve.  We have subordinates, peers/equals, and superiors.  Dammit.  (No I am not angry...just another round peg in a square hole  )  Supervisors work at...Walmart and...Burger King. 

Your right ......I might be getting converted..I think that is the first time using it...yikes ;D..it took two yrs.....but I think I will stick with "supervisor" as I have not come across anyone in the Air Force I would consider my "superior" as far as leadership goes...yet...I am hopfull!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We live in the same world.  ;D  Refer to post above, rank "hey buddy". 

 

[armyvern]

Egad they are converting you!  I hate the word "supervisors" in relation to anyone who has a rank.  My pet peeve.  We have subordinates, peers/equals, and superiors.  Dammit.  (No I am not angry...just another round peg in a square hole  )  Supervisors work at...Walmart and...Burger King.  This is where I must invoke the term mivilian.  (mah-vill-yen:  one who is not really military in mindset or deportment, yet subject to the CSD and in the CF.  See rank "hey buddy".)  ;D

Hmmm ... "talk to the Clothing Stores Superior" just doesn't seem to cut it, nor does "IC Clothing Stores" when, of course, the Sup O is really the IC of everything Supply ... and she probably doesn't want you complaining to her. She'd probably tell you to go talk to the "Clothing Stores Supervisor" too ...  >

 

[Eye In The Sky]

but thats the 'job title' more isn't it?  ;D

 

[armyvern]

but thats the 'job title' more isn't it?   ;D

Dude. Get real. We are talking "Clothing Stores" here.  Some are superior, some are even outstanding, but most are merely skilled.  > (I know that shows my age -- it's from a couple of PER rating systems ago ...)

But, here's the current just to irritate you even more (seems that supervisor is indeed accepted and standard terminology these days):

CFPAS PER:

Section 4 (Performance):

AF1: reads ... "Supervising"

:-\

And from the handbook ...

Rank of Supervisor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The supervisor will complete Section 4 of the PER. The supervisor should be at least one rank higher than the member being assessed.  The assessor of a CWO shall be of Capt/Lt(N) rank or higher.  There must be at least two levels of review on every PER and normally, sections 4, 5, and 6 are each signed by a different person increasing in rank.  Under no circumstances is section 6 Additional Review to be completed by the same officer who completes section 5 .  There are, however, rare cases where the chain of command for a member does not fit the classic pattern and it is not possible or appropriate for a different person or one of increasing rank to sign each section.  In such cases where the environmental commander has not designated signing authorities for these unique situations, the CO should seek the advice of DMCARM 2 in determining an appropriate course of action.  Also, occasionally supervisors are appointed to fulfill a position where they must assess personnel of equal rank.  It is acceptable for a supervisor to be of the same rank as the member being assessed but in all cases the reviewing officer must be at least one rank higher than the person being assessed.


Allied military personnel may make evaluations if they are in the chain of command; however, the PER must also be signed in section 5 by a Canadian Commissioned Officer of appropriate rank.

I wonder if I throw my "position" in the signature block as "milvilian" -- if anyone would notice??  >

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Mivilian isn't meant that way by me though 

 

[armyvern]

Mivilian isn't meant that way by me though 

That must be the difference in Army and Air Force mindsets then!!  ;D

 

[Eye In The Sky]

oh god there is there is! 

 

[Zoomie]

"Supervisor" is an official term in the CF folks - not just the Airforce. 

Our particular structure is not based on the army section, platoon, company organization.  We have individual departments in which we employ specific trades.  As a Captain - I do not have NCMs that report to me.  Their direct supervisor (there it is again) is another NCM followed by an NCO (WO or MWO).  In my department we have 20+ Officers - we report directly to a Major who reports to the CO.  Another department under that same Major is full of NCMs who report to him directly.

This type of organization is not anti-CF - it is just the way it is.  Ex-army types have their issues at the start, but trust me, you will get over it and YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.


ex-army Zoomie

 

[armyvern]

I don't think anyone stated that it was an "Air Force" term. Did I miss something?

Even CFPAS (applicable to the ENTIRE CF) was quoted.

I assimilated well -- got out and went green.  ;D

Ex-Air Force Army girl.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'll have to take a good look at the NDA for the word tomorrow   ;D  (hey I *did* say it was my pet peeve earlier )

Do you have one of those gadgets they had in MIB that can erase the mind (not that it would take long in my case) and make this less painful?   8)

 

[Zoomie]

<snip> We have subordinates, peers/equals, and superiors. ..... Supervisors work at...Walmart and...Burger King.  <snip>

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ok ok so I just don't relate the term supervisor to the military...

Now, lets all have a nice group hug, lead by our team supervisor.  Then I'll put on my nice blue vest and start greeting folks as they come into the store.   ;D

*edit - I didn't mean to say it is only the Air Force that uses it...I am only saying I hadn't heard it used [in my 17 years in at the time...] until I OTd to Air Force. 

 

[airforcemissingthearmy]

YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.


ex-army Zoomie
[/quote]

Not a chance my friend!!!!! There is things happening on an Air Force bases that would be qualified as a disgrace on Army bases ,and to put me in a better mood, I was just told that the deployment physical requirement for the Air Force is now the BFT. I don't have the reference yet, but as soon as I do I'll post it. Just to prove an other fact of life, even if your Air Force, the minimum standard always come back to the Army one...or should we call it the CF one...we all wear the same uniform don't we?

 

[Strike]

Without getting too much in the weeds, the standard to deploy to certain areas does include the BFT.  Some others do not.  It's not a "new" thing.  It all depends on where you will be based.

 

[Zoomie]

There is things happening on an Air Force bases that would be qualified as a disgrace on Army bases

I have also learned that there are many, many things that happen on LFC run bases that are pointless, useless and darn right funny. 

Who ever decided that we should never walk on the "Queen's" grass.  My first exposure to this was some huge RCR MWO in the spring of 1994 yelling at me from over a klick away.  I had to double over to him (across him precious grass) and get my first real reaming as a Trooper.