Benefits Cut...
- Thread starter MasterInstructor
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aesop081
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Blacklab said:
Without the amended CBIs and little in the way of clarification, i understand their answer of "i don't know". Either way, my posting allowance covers it if all else fails. I'm posted out of a location and job i don't like, back to one i love so things are still coming up CDN Aviator.
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Eye In The Sky said:
Members are effectively subsidizing their own training if their net income is reduced by virtue of being sent on a prohibited/restricted posting. I am not applying spin one way or the other. I simply think what is being done is wrong and the burden of paying for rations should not be thrown on to someone who is already incurring a same or similar cost at home. If at the end of the month a person in transition nets less money than what they earn, the CF really should look at things. There is no way smart planning could have mitigated a change like this to something as expensive as rations.
Strike said:
It's not relevant but ok, I'll bite: A large breed dog, a small dog, and two cats. Shipping: $8769. Custom crates to meet AC Cargo regs: $900. Pet boarding during ILM&M: $800. Quarantine for 21 days at destination: $1800. Transport from customs to quarantine @ destination: $90 (not optional). And if you have pets, you know that it actually all costs more than that. Now, I can hear the comments already: you don't need four pets, suck it up, etc etc. And when I first joined, I would probably have agreed. But I've been around for a while, and I see things with a bit more maturity today. Each erosion of benefits just reduces the CF's ability to attract and retain the best. I have a blended family. Yes, I could have chosen not to get married to someone with pets, or I could have our kids just "suck it up" and rehome the animals. The CF clearly didn't expect anyone to do that yesterday, but today we are just supposed to accept it lying down. So much for QOL and care for the CF families then, eh?
I generally try to promote things that make life better for soldiers, instead of taking the hardline : accept it or leave approach. That's why it's frustrating to see these changes so poorly implemented. There are good and bad ways to go about cuts, and this seems to have been poorly done. This CANFORGEN is a slap in the face with its mention of improvements to pay and benefits (which are themselves debatable) followed by a list of cuts. It's insulting to be told you have it so good while getting the knife in the back, n'est-ce pas? Pets are not commodities, they are part of our lives and our kids lives. They can't be easily thrown away, and they deserve a bit more consideration than this. This callous approach undermines the message that the CF cares, and sets the conditions for people to seek fulfillment elsewhere. Sure I can cover it out of pocket. I don't expect every family could though. And it will have a financial impact somewhere. Am I the only one for whom $10K is not pocket change? Should I be happy to radically alter my family's budget to absorb this expense, and just tell my wife to be happy that our benefits are so good? Come on.
I'm new to the forum, obviously. I don't really care about whatever point scheme exists here, but I find it amusing that I received two emails: one says my post is inspirational, the other says is it inappropriate. Wow.
Ok, I understand and even respect the attachment people have towards their pets. But, I don't know if joe public, given the economic climate (Canada just lost 30 000 jobs this month alone), lay offs, cuts etc is going to be sympathetic to the Canadian Forces complaining about the cuts to the cost of moving your pet let alone 4. And close to 10 000$.
I know, it isn't "just" about the pets, but you've made that the central part of your argument. I agree about the points with you, they don't really matter to me. but I can see why some found your post inspirational (obvious pet lovers lol), to innapropriate I mean, you stated you would have to drown your pets (likely another pet lover lol)
I know, it isn't "just" about the pets, but you've made that the central part of your argument. I agree about the points with you, they don't really matter to me. but I can see why some found your post inspirational (obvious pet lovers lol), to innapropriate I mean, you stated you would have to drown your pets (likely another pet lover lol)
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aesop081
Guest
Blacklab said:
FSP is hardly "out of pocket". Can i have your FSP for a month ? The military doesn't cover the cost of having my tenants move out before the end of their lease because i am posted back to the original location less that a year later.
Yes, I am harping on FSP but because of it, you make much more money than most and thus have the ability to cushion the cost of moving your pets in the future, without using your salary. A great many of us are not that lucky, yet, you're resorting to absurdities............
meni0n
Sr. Member
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I did an OT not so long ago and I was restricted posted to the base where the school was for the duration of my course. I got a wife and two kids and back then my wife was not working. It would have been impossible for me to pay for groceries back home and the rations at the same time because I definitely wasn't consuming 500$+ of groceries by myself a month. Hopefully the CF does the smart thing in situations like that just posts people to the local BTL and just sends people on TD for the duration of their course because otherwise people would just be going into debt to go on career courses.
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Blacklab - having two dogs and two cats myself, I understand how it could aggravate you that you now have to eat up the extra costs. However, not everyone has a pet, which is likely why the benefit was moved to the personal envelope. You do realize that anything you HAVE to pay for in your move you can also claim on your income tax, making the bite not quite as big.
My husband and I will never be so lucky as he is self-employed and will have to eat up the costs of moving his equipment and likely wouldn't even be able to claim it OR write it off.
We all make sacrifices and, I hate to be so crass, but Joe Q Public doesn't give a shit that you have to pay extra to move your pets considering everything else that DOES get covered. Before sitting down and saying, "Whoa is me," maybe you should be looking at how our benefits/services compare to other companies and government agencies when their employees are forced to move.
I think all these extra benefits have made us all feel a little too entitled in the past few years.
My husband and I will never be so lucky as he is self-employed and will have to eat up the costs of moving his equipment and likely wouldn't even be able to claim it OR write it off.
We all make sacrifices and, I hate to be so crass, but Joe Q Public doesn't give a shit that you have to pay extra to move your pets considering everything else that DOES get covered. Before sitting down and saying, "Whoa is me," maybe you should be looking at how our benefits/services compare to other companies and government agencies when their employees are forced to move.
I think all these extra benefits have made us all feel a little too entitled in the past few years.
@ CDN aviator: I'll spare you all the math, but the bottom line is that FSP don't put my family ahead at all. Once you factor in the cost of living here (gas is $2.20/liter), the incidental expenses (way, way beyond $650 move grant), loss of LDA and PLD etc etc, I can assure you that the overall effect is that we would be better off financially if we had not come here. And you continue to miss the point of FSP. It is an incentive, to make foreign postings attractive. That incentive value is completely lost if I have to use all of it to pay for something which was previously covered as a Custom component expense. So, on top of the fact that I am not financially ahead of anyone because of FSP, I am seriously peeved at this arbitrary policy change. If you want my FSP for a month, you can have it but you get all the expenses too. Then see if you want it!
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aesop081
Guest
Blacklab said:
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I am well aware of the intent behind FSP.
Edit: As per PPCLI Guy's excellent post below.
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Blacklab said:
You didn't lose PLD and LDA - you ceased to qualify. Big difference. It is not an entitlement, it is an allowance.
No. I have had two OUTCANs. It is NOT an incentive - it is merely intended to assist you in absorbing additional costs incurred from living overseas. If you need an incentive to serve overseas, send me a PM and I will try and have you sent home, so that a family who understands the extraordinary opportunity that an OUTCAN represents can replace you.
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Blacklab said:
There's a lineup of a hundred people that want your OUTCAN spot, maybe you should ask your CM for a move and give the posting to someone that wants/deserves it.
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aesop081
Guest
I'll trade your OUTCAN. You can even keep the FSP.
Want and deserve are not the same thing. I'm not interested in debating the merits of OUTCAN, who wants it, who gets it, or who deserves it. But if you want to have that discussion as a sidebar, I definitely have an opinion and you are welcome to it. Back to topic though, I am pretty shocked that you all seem so unaffected by significant cuts in relocation benefits, that you are so callous about the impact of a $10k bill. Wish I had your money, and glad I'm not relying on any of you to champion my welfare. I should just suck it up then, or gtfo. Turns out that WAS you position after all!
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Blacklab said:
You seem to forget that not everyone HAS a pet, so why would such a benefit as paying for their move be included in something other than personal?
Does it suck that your bill happens to be a bit higher than the normal CF member during a move? For you, yes, but we can't base a benefit on the lowest common denominator. Period.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Blacklab said:
What are the ladies like where you are?
Speaking of which, maybe you could find a loophole in the system and marry your dog and have their flight covered.
Just kidding (mostly). I have a blacklab that's like family to me. I'd be pretty pissed too if the CF covered their move one way then changed policy. Maybe you really should look into seeing if you can be grandfathered or something. You said you're pretty busy, well $10'000 grand is worth devoting some time to..
On the same note, maybe the CF shouldn't have had that policy in the first place. Cantors right, media wise paying $10'000 grand (just for example) to move pets would be hard for a lot of tax payers to swallow- even though they're pretty much "family" to the member.
Take the time and see what your CoC can do for you.
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What irks me is that those of you still in uniform are now having to play by different rules than the Public Service.
The NJC Relocation Directive still allows for mortgage breaking penalties from Core, MLI from Customized/Personalized, extended HHT/pet boarding/pet travel/utility connects & disconnect fees from Customized/Personalized. I can't tell you about the Separation Expense because reading the documentation on it just makes my brain bleed.
These financial hits are being shoved down the CF's throat because there's no recourse, yet the same benefits are still present in the NJC Relocation Directive which forms a part of the collective agreements of the PS.
Is the CF pay/benefits envelope not supposed to be tied directly to that of the PS? If so, they just sliced a sizable chunk of compensation out of the CF envelope while there's been no change to that of the PS.
The NJC Relocation Directive still allows for mortgage breaking penalties from Core, MLI from Customized/Personalized, extended HHT/pet boarding/pet travel/utility connects & disconnect fees from Customized/Personalized. I can't tell you about the Separation Expense because reading the documentation on it just makes my brain bleed.
These financial hits are being shoved down the CF's throat because there's no recourse, yet the same benefits are still present in the NJC Relocation Directive which forms a part of the collective agreements of the PS.
Is the CF pay/benefits envelope not supposed to be tied directly to that of the PS? If so, they just sliced a sizable chunk of compensation out of the CF envelope while there's been no change to that of the PS.
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Blacklab said:
:goodpost: Don`t worry about the idealistic crowd on here, In my job I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of CF personnel agree with you and have recognized a recent trend in the erosion of our benefits, with more to come. Sure we have to do our share in balancing the budget, but most would agree that this so called `strat review`attack on our benefits is really are going to hurt the rank and file of our organization. Like all things, these things go in cycles, the last one during the 90s. And for those who say they would forgo the FSP to get out of country, then let them sign a waiver and send them on their way. Hang in there, we are all in this together. ;D
