Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[C/S 0]

That's why I decided to post - alot of misinformation, misunderstanding and misconception on this thread.  You are right that the chain-of-command should of done a better job with the passing of information and keeping the troops updated.  Call it fear of the unknown.

For the new pers coming in it will be easier to adapted to ACISS, they have no bagaged as those of us already in the trades.  Really for the DP1 and 1.1 it will be training as per norm at the School.  DP1 a common QL3 for the Sig Ops, Linemen and LCIS techs now call ACISS Core.  Then followed by DP1.1 for the IST, LST and CST which is basicily the info the LST and CST need to know to go down that career path of what was a Linemen, LCIS Tech or for the IST now a Sig Op/LCIS Tech that is working in a Server Det or IS Service/Help Desk.

The DP2 may be more of a challenge to get the balance right for CORE training when the ACISS/LST/CST/IST are thrown back together.  In DP2.1 they will divide again and will conduct their sub Ocp training.

For those that are Cpls/MCpls now on 1 Jan if your a Linemen you are now ACISS Sub Ocp LST doing the same thing you were doing on 31 Dec, no change.  The same for the ACISS Core guy (ex sig op) and the CST guy (ex LCIS).  IST is a little different because you are joning Sig Ops and LCIS Techs into the same Sub Ocp.

For Sgt, this the SME rank in the ACISS Core, IST/LST/CST sub Ocps.  For WO's they are now back to ACISS CORE unless they go CISTM which may be about 10% to 20% of that rank level.  Sgt's are the SMEs that will solve the line, radio, svr problems, etc.  WO's are man management.  In Theory an ex LST Sgt can be the Tp WO for A Tp CFJSR because he had the Core training in DP1, DP2 and DP3.  This will help in the future with some of the shortages in the PML.

There may be some rough water ahead but we are not going to sink.  Will it take 10 years I don't thing so, depends on the leadership in the Branch, The School, The Field Force and some of the people reading this thread on the forum now.

 

[C/S 0]

REF Reserve Training

DP1 will be one summer only for the reserves IIRC about 49 training days.  Some training will be done before hand by DL or at the unit level.  The TP is slightly different from the Regular Force.  For example the Reserve Comms don't have the SAM/SAS equipment like the Regular Force so that part of the TP does not apply to the reserve training.

 

[Jammer]

Just to reiterate, ACCIS will not be a success if the the feild force doesn't do thier part when they recieve the DP-1s. My concern is that not enough liason between CFSCE and the rest of the Army has been done. I have spoken to some in the Bdes and they are totally out of the lop when it comes to what they will be responsible for when it comes to preparing DP-1s to return for further trg. Ack, there will be growing pains, but resistance is futile. The can't do attitude is only going to be to the detiriment of the new soldiers going through the process.
I think it's time to drop the what ifs and get on with what has to be done to make it successful. It's now out of our hands.

 

[C/S 0]

Just so there is no misuderstanding CFSCE does not control ACISS.  ACISS is part of the MES project in some directorite in Ottawa.  What CFSCE is in control of is the training part of ACISS Dp1, 1.1, 2. 2.1, 3, etc.

What the field force will be receiving from CFSCE in the DP1 Qual Pte is basicily a Sig Op minus.  It is my understanding that between the Pte's choices, apatitude test at CFRC, his performance on DP1, the OJT he does at the unit and the needs of the service will be the factors when his name goes to a merit style board (at unit level maybe, career shop maybe?) will decide if that per stays at ACISS Core or goes to LST/CST/IST.

 

[FreeFloat]

I'm watching this thread with piqued interest as I currently have a CT request in for "LCIS."  (Fully cognizant of the fact it'll be ACIS - or is that ACISS? - that I'll be offered once the dust settles).  My question:  What about POET training?  Where will it fall into the scheme of things, or are they somehow planning to do away with it altogether?

 

[C/S 0]

ACISS Op

I'm not a tech but it is my understanding that there still will be a POET but it has a new name.  Also the COAs being looked at is if to have POET before or after DP1.

 

[PuckChaser]

The POET will be a shorter course of 66(?) days called FET or Fundamental Electronics Training. Once a person has been selected for CST Sub Occ, they have to go on FET and pass to do the CST DP1.1

 

[Swingline1984]

Looking back through the thread I don't see any "mis-information" only a bunch of info starved troops frightened of the Cepacol to fix a gaping flesh wound senario.  Perhaps the marketing team should have been dispatched a little earlier.  I also can't wait to add "making it work" to my PER brag sheet (I can see the T-shirts now "MES making it work since 2011"), that and a pocket full of broken promises should set me on the fast track.

 

[Sig_Des]

I'm trying to look at this whole thing optimistically, and having helped write the core DP2.1 TP, I don't want to see it fail. However, here's my personal take.

Pro's:

- seperation of operator and IS specialist
- basic background on a little of everything (can flip side to a con as well)

Cons

-  a training environment that creates people with a little bit of knowledge on a lot, as opposed to a lot on less. Basically, max supervision required.
- The training establishment pushing more training responsibility out to operational units (Maybe a little easier post-Afghanistan, but with the current op tempo of 1 Sqn deployed, one in the chamber and one coming back, plus Bde support, I'm expecting to see a lot of difficulty wrt monitoring & managing OJT)

One big one I see is lack of reflection on the MES change at out-unit establishments.

For the most part, several sig ops in a Sigs Pl/Tp at a first-line field unit will wear multiple hats. Your Alt CP Commander may also be your IS supervisor. Back in garisson, your RRB det member could work IS helpdesk. It's not an environment where you want someone who's fresh out of the grinder and requires max supervision. Now we're getting into an environment where it's going to take someone at least 3 years before they're qualified in IS, and can move into the say, the 1 IST position of an Armoured Regt. Did the field force get asked "What is your unit going to need? How many ACISS core/IST/CST?" What level was the input, if any? Who decided who gets how many of what?

Another Con I'm seeing is retention. How many guys in the last few years are getting out after their VIE because they've spent it sitting around. Now we're getting into a situation where someone who wants to be a tech is being told "well, you MIGHT become a tech, but it's probably going to be at least 2.5/3 years before we actually decide you will be and send you on your training. But no guarantees". For something that's supposed to help fill the ranks, I'm expecting to see a lot of young new Sigs get real jaded, real fast.

Once again, I'm optimistic, and hopeful, because the train is already rolling. I just hope all the tracks are laid before we hit the next station, or things'll get ugly.

 

[PuckChaser]

Looking back through the thread I don't see any "mis-information" only a bunch of info starved troops frightened of the Cepacol to fix a gaping flesh wound senario.  Perhaps the marketing team should have been dispatched a little earlier.  I also can't wait to add "making it work" to my PER brag sheet (I can see the T-shirts now "MES making it work since 2011"), that and a pocket full of broken promises should set me on the fast track.

Could add: "Designed and ran continuation training with no CFSCE input" as well. Individual units are going to be left holding the ball to get all the old pers up to speed so they don't fail their next career course because CFSCE has washed its hands of any of that. Then again, you're going to need a good brag sheet to have to fight through the hundreds of people now going to be merit listed right along side of you in the Snr NCO stream.

 

[Rheostatic]

For example the Reserve Comms don't have the SAM/SAS equipment like the Regular Force so that part of the TP does not apply to the reserve training.

Do you mean they don't have the equipment at all, or that they don't have the same equipment? If you mean the former, it's news to me and I'm disappointed to hear that the Res might lose access to this training.

 

[George Wallace]

Do you mean they don't have the equipment at all, or that they don't have the same equipment? If you mean the former, it's news to me and I'm disappointed to hear that the Res might lose access to this training.

Since the change over to TCCS and the loss of all that Legacy Comms equipment, all Trades of the Reserves have been doing without, or with very little.  Training deltas are growing between Res and Reg trg on all fronts. 

 

[Sig_Des]

Do you mean they don't have the equipment at all, or that they don't have the same equipment? If you mean the former, it's news to me and I'm disappointed to hear that the Res might lose access to this training.

I imagine it's due to SAM/SAS changing again, and I'm doubtful the res will see the MCR/EPLRS system in the near future. I expect you'll see augmentee's getting trained on it as the need arises.

 

[Jammer]

Could add: "Designed and ran continuation training with no CFSCE input" as well. Individual units are going to be left holding the ball to get all the old pers up to speed so they don't fail their next career course because CFSCE has washed its hands of any of that. Then again, you're going to need a good brag sheet to have to fight through the hundreds of people now going to be merit listed right along side of you in the Snr NCO stream.

Up to speed on what? The info in the TP hasn't changed, and if people are worried about failing career crses it's not the Unit who has to bend over backwards to make sure they are ready. It's the individual that has to take a good portion of the responsibility to make sure THEY are ready for a career crse. It's not like it's going to be a surprise to them.
Maybe some should be less concerned about what they think is "owed" to them in the way of a handout, and spend a little more time being part of the solution, and not part of the problem. OMFG I hate ladder climbers...

 

[chrisf]

Do you mean they don't have the equipment at all, or that they don't have the same equipment? If you mean the former, it's news to me and I'm disappointed to hear that the Res might lose access to this training.

For the average res sig op who did QL3 in the brief period where SAS was taught, it was a waste, they're never going to see it again (I say average, if you do a tour, or transfer to the regs, or somthing else, sure, you'll see it again, but again for the average operator, what they learned and haven't used will be gone courtesy of skill fade). I've never been trained on it (Tinkered a bit with sending LOC via a CI, but that's the max we can do with the kit we've got)

As much as I hate to see a gap between the regs and the res as far as trade courses go, if the res units don't hold it, and aren't likely to hold it in the near future, they shouldn't train on it. Time saved on stuff they're not likely to see can either be spent on somthing else, or used to cut the length of the course... utimately, for the reserves, the shorter we can make the course, the wider we open ourselves to for a recruiting pool.

Take the mechanic trade for example, there are a lot of unqualified reserve mechanics, with just an EME common course, because so few can manage to make time for the 9 months or so it takes for the trades course.

Conversely, if it were up to me, there'd be a good week on the QL5 course on cimic, and interoperation of communications with civillian agencies. That would be useful to a reserve sig-op.

 

[C/S 0]

What I mean as misinformation is that there are posters on here throwing around their opinion based on assumption, attitude and no knowledge of the facts.  IE reserve training will be two summers in DP1 and the ACISS course is 70 days, etc.  Although that may not be their fault, the chain of command did a bad job passing on info.

As for this

Could add: "Designed and ran continuation training with no CFSCE input" as well. Individual units are going to be left holding the ball to get all the old pers up to speed so they don't fail their next career course because CFSCE has washed its hands of any of that. Then again, you're going to need a good brag sheet to have to fight through the hundreds of people now going to be merit listed right along side of you in the Snr NCO stream.

How has CFSCE become responsible for unit training and how is CFSCE responsible for people currently in their trades for failing when they come back.  If you are a Sig Op, Linemen, LCIS tech there is no change except the name, your still doing the same thing. 

As for the comment on the marketing team, I don't need to market ACISS, it will be here on 1 Jan, like it or not.  Time to stop crying about it, show a bit of leadership and lead change (for those of you worried about your PER) and carry on.

For those that are worried about merit list for this year it will be based on the old trades.

 

[Sig_Des]

What I mean as misinformation is that there are posters on here throwing around their opinion based on assumption, attitude and no knowledge of the facts.  IE reserve training will be two summers in DP1 and the ACISS course is 70 days, etc.  Although that may not be their fault, the chain of command did a bad job passing on info.

As for the comment on the marketing team, I don't need to market ACISS, it will be here on 1 Jan, like it or not.  Time to stop crying about it, show a bit of leadership and lead change (for those of you worried about your PER) and carry on.

Well, that's the thing isn't it? I've passed on the information I've gotten to my guys in the dribs and drabs that I've received it in, and more in depth once I got more details. Yet here we are, 2 weeks before the event, and people still have these questions.

Granted, this may be a passage of information issue somewhere, but there's a disconnect somewhere between the lofty greatest-thing-since-sliced-bread cloud, and the bitter "This smacks of previous f'ed up amalgamations"

I'm just gonna wait and see with optimistic bated breath.

 

[C/S 0]

For sure there will be a transition period - but it won't be 10 years.  For most qualified QL3 pers now they will get onto a legacy QL5.  For those Sig Ops that don't there is hardly any change in the TP.  For the Linmen and LCIS guys that miss out on the last few QL5's yes they may have to do some Sig Op style training.  We will Cross that bridge when we get there and if there is no bridge we will build one.  May be something along the lines of the old QL4 package.

For these new courses of DP1, 1.1, 2, etc - the TPs are not written in stone.  This is a new trade with new TPs and master lesson plans.  If after the first ACISS course there are more days required or training we want to emphasize more we can do that.  CTC Gagetown knows this.

Anyway gents this will be my last post, come Jan it will all be academic anyway, ACISS will be here.  There is a lot of gloom out there but if you are already qualified in your trade I'll bet you won't even notice the change except your called something else.

Merry Christmas.

 

[dan7108]

REF Reserve Training

DP1 will be one summer only for the reserves IIRC about 49 training days.  Some training will be done before hand by DL or at the unit level.  The TP is slightly different from the Regular Force.  For example the Reserve Comms don't have the SAM/SAS equipment like the Regular Force so that part of the TP does not apply to the reserve training.

Since when? Every CPIC/VIC configuration truck now has CI and DAGR mounts with all the appropriate cabling in our Res unit and has for more than two years. After that all you need is a terminal (CF-30), CI-terminal cable, and appropriate software (SAM5/SAS) all of which we acquired with relative ease.

I'm pretty sure all Res units are equipped with the same capabilities. The reason it never gets used is because most of the senior members are ignorant of the capability. This ignorance will now be perpetuated with the new DP1 and this expensive equipment will go unused. Shame.

 

[MikeL]

dan7108

I doubt that, I've worked with some Reservists and they didnt know how to program a freq into a 522 since all their unit did was HF and not Tac Rad.


As for the SAM/SAS thing, my impression was that it was on it's way out, last time I used it in Canada was 07, and we really didn't use it overseas, and haven't since we returned.