Anti-War Demonstrations - Halifax

[jmackenzie_15]

What does everybody think of this? I was in halifax last night and saw all kinds of flyers and posters.... I came home today and im watching the coverage on CTV of the whole thing....

im hearing phrases like
"american imperial takeover" and "democracy is not through killing"

None of these people know what theyre talking about and it drives me crazy.

Although I was happy to see some people on the other end of the fence, one of them a retired army officer, saying that we should be supporting the CF troops overseas and not underminding the mission.

They want the immediate withdrawal of all military forces from Afghanistan and Iraq... I wonder if any of these people realize what would happen if that were to take place.

Had to vent.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

One more thing, bear with me:

In particular on this news broadcast, im disgusted CTV would allow such uninformed ignorant people to be broadcast all over atlantic canada spouting their nonsense... one woman in particular on the news basically described our troops shooting that taxi driver as a cold blooded killing, she even said "canadian troops are killing innocent civilians".

She has NO idea what shes talking about, what the circumstances were, at ALL. Not only is that bad enough, its a slap in the face to the serving members overseas who were in that position and im quite certain the feel terrible about being forced to fire on someone, but come on. Know the facts.

Whatever happened to the "informed opinion" ?

I wish someone would organize a Pro-Afghanistan rally all about supporting the troops and wishing they come home safe, rather than telling people over a televised news cast theyre killing innocent people and that its "no way to bring democracy to afghanistan."

/RANT OFF

 

[Cpl.Banks]

Its apparent that the hippies have been burning something a bit more toxic than usual in their communal bon fire and their hemp clothes absorbed  it and helped the substance enter their body and eventually their *gasp* brain.

Sarcasm aside,I'm no military genius but I would think destroying all sense of order in Iraq and Afghanistan wouldn't be helping the Afghans all that much. I think this is a kick in the pants to all the brave men and women serving overseas not just in Afghanistan. Hippies...go figure.

UBIQUE!!!!

 

[derael]

Yeah, a few days ago I heard a comment from one of these activists that went something like: "We're not peacekeepers anymore; we're war keepers". The pure ignorance of these people to the facts of the situation is enough to make anyone want to start their own counter rallies.

Although I did find it rather funny that most of the people in these protests did look like your typical hippies with their lacking hygiene and desperate need for haircut.

 

[JasonH]

American imperlism sounds about right mind you.

Watch "Why we fight" newly released movie, awesome in my mind.

 

[derael]

I just don't get how some of these people can even think traditional peacekeeping would work in Afghanistan. You would assume that they would eventually start thinking before they speak...let alone marching down "main street" with life size posters and drawing attention to themselves. Call me crazy but that kind of stupidity should surely not be displayed publicly....

 

[HDE]

Our local university got out something in the range of 30 people for their anti-war rally; pretty stirring stuff on a campus of about 20,000.  I'd hate to see how they define a failure  ;D.  Apparently a busload of about 50 local "activists" headed to the big rally in Hogtown today.  Did I mention we're a city of 100,000 plus?  :nana:

 

[Guest]

i missed something, what's wrong with protesting again? >  did you realize that all governments are made up of people just like you, me, your girlfriend and your crazy friend?  they don't always make the best decisions or tell you why they're doing it.  its not a sinister conspiracy thing, its just the way things get done.  think about it.  come on, protest ain't such a bad thing?  embrace it.  these are just people who give a sh :bullet:t about whats going on in the world.  if you want to debate them go ahead, but don't get all up tight.  show a bit of confidence in what you are doing and do what you do if your views don't stand up to debate then why are you holding them?  and don't be so arrogant as to suppose you're that much wiser than the rest of the world that you can tell people when to shut their mouths.  or somebody might come and throatpunch you wiseguy. :threat:

 

[jmackenzie_15]

I know if it were me overseas right now, and I saw that, I would be furious at the ignorance.

Regardless, I still am because lots of our buddies are over there right now with their lives on the line every day for a people that need our help, and brainless michael moore peons are walking around the streets with signs calling them murderers and baby killers and war mongerers.

Thank god they are the huge minority.

 

[Guest]

Whoa, calm down slick.  What i don't understand is why you think it is such a great idea for the CF to be fighting for the right of shitbricks to express their opinion.  Seems like a waste of time if you ask me.  Maybe our forefathers should have fought for oil instead.  Now don't go and shit your drawers, son.  I'm just pulling your leg cause you got half a brain. 

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

why you think it is such a great idea for the CF to be fighting for the right of shitbricks to express their opinion.  

Obviously you are yet another one of the many misinformed public who has come up with their own reasons as to why the CF does what they do. Do you sleep deeply at night under the premise that if we just mind our own business here in Canada, no harm will come to us?

 

[Guest]

1st repy, you missed some of the conversation.  Catch up.

Piper - freedom of speech and the right to protest are excellent things to defend and protect.  However, if that is what is being defended, then why is it not being respected?  And by that, I mean more than just saying "You have the right to protest, but I have the right to say you're stupid and tell you to shut up."  I think we have to consider why we have the right and why it is important.  If we are just going to tell everyone who holds an opinion we don't like that they are idiots and know-nothings then why have defend that right?  I could have done that without a right of free speech.  There has to be something intrinsically valuable about that right if it is so important.  An opinion may be right or wrong but maybe I should consider it and evaluate my beliefs in comparison.  Maybe I change my opinion or I don't.  No harm done.  At least I had the opportunity to correct myself.  I think just telling everyone to shut up is an abuse of a right that our forefathers fought for.  If we have it, fucking use it properly.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Bottom line: Do'nt go on television ranting about things you know absolutely nothing about.

These people go ranting and raving in the streets about american imperialism, civilian casualties and oil profits.. possibly after being fired up by a michael moore movie, and open their mouths before theyve done even a shred of research at all.

What makes matters worse, CTV and CBC are putting these people ON TELEVISION for hundreds of thousands, even millions to see. Many of those are connected to CF members, or may be one themselves.

Actually, watching this woman on my television talk about how we're killing innocent civilians and spreading democracy "through a gun barrell" was infuriating and downright offensive. I took offense to that comment, and CTV and CBC allowed it to be put on television.

That wasnt news, it was an idiot preaching about things she knew nothing about. If you want to tell me the news, fine, tell me theres a protest going on in downtown Halifax. Don't show me some random woman with no credibility badmouthing our soldiers, loosely based on events that may or may not have even happened.

 

[JBP]

1st repy, you missed some of the conversation.  Catch up.

Piper - freedom of speech and the right to protest are excellent things to defend and protect.  However, if that is what is being defended, then why is it not being respected?  And by that, I mean more than just saying "You have the right to protest, but I have the right to say you're stupid and tell you to shut up."  I think we have to consider why we have the right and why it is important.  If we are just going to tell everyone who holds an opinion we don't like that they are idiots and know-nothings then why have defend that right?  I could have done that without a right of free speech.  There has to be something intrinsically valuable about that right if it is so important.  An opinion may be right or wrong but maybe I should consider it and evaluate my beliefs in comparison.  Maybe I change my opinion or I don't.  No harm done.  At least I had the opportunity to correct myself.  I think just telling everyone to shut up is an abuse of a right that our forefathers fought for.  If we have it, ******* use it properly.

Fair enough, I get your point. What we're trying to explain though, is that there are people out there who have absolutely NO idea why we're in Afghanistan or what we're there for... People like this example whom I work with daily...

We were talking about the axe-to-the-head incident a day or so after it happened... Civvie says: "You know, if someone puts an axe into your head, it must mean those people don't want you there.... I mean, if they're blowing you guys (Canadian Troops) up with bombs and attacking you all the time, maybe they don't want you there, so like, maybe you should leave.. We shouldn't have went there in the first place, it was Bush's idea!"

Along those lines almost exactly..

My response: *Roll eyes* - "Don't you know? We're trying to free Afghanistan from the oppression it faced for decades by militant leaders, the people want us there, the old military leaders and Taliban do NOT. They want to re-gain control of the country to keep growing drugs and terrorists. They don't have a choice to be free or not because they don't have any power, it's been taken away from them for so long. Would you like them to be free or would you like remnants of the Taliban to take over again, start producing like 65% of the worlds opium again and killing, slaving or oppressing the population as they see fit? What do you think THEY want?"...

It was pretty close to that... I remember this because I was so infuriated over it. After that little talk, she shut up. Didn't say a word except, "Oh".....

They just really have no idea... At all...

 

[TCBF]

It was pretty close to that... I remember this because I was so infuriated over it. After that little talk, she shut up. Didn't say a word except, "Oh".....

They just really have no idea... At all..."

- But you - YOU - have sewn a tiny seed in her head, that will someday threaten everything her rather limp-dick peer group has tried to accomplish.  Because of YOU, there is hope for her yet.

Heck, even Barbara Amiel started out as a Commie!

;D

Tom

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I reminded of an incident that happened in Victoria a few years ago.
The Aircraft carrier USS Lincoln was visiting, anchored in Royal Roads and I and a number of other Canadian officers went out by boat as part of the official liaison team.
We had to steer our way through Greenpeace and Raging Granny boats with similarly uninformed people on board in order to get to the accommodation ladder.
When we finally got up on the flight deck and were greeted by the Captain our embarrassed senior officer said "sorry about all the protest and fuss Captain, this is not the views of the majority of Canadians or Victorians to your presence here."
To which the USN Captain replied pleasantly, "They are welcome here too Captain, this is the reason we have a ship like this and fight to preserve their right to protest."

The majority of Canadians saw last night's protest as just a bunch of hippy nut cases blowing hot air.

 

[Infantry_wannabe]

It would be a sad day if Canada leaves Afghanistan to cater to these kinds of people. I'm taking classes at a College in the Vancouver area and I constantly see posters saying things like "Stop Imperialism at Home and Abroad!" I swear to God, they had a picture of the Canadian soldier facing off with a Mohawk at the Oka crisis from years ago. These posters link all of the following things together: Oka, Native rights, Iraq, Afghanistan, and even...get ready for it...Haiti! Apparently Canada is part of an imperialist plot to control the oppressed people of Haiti.

Hey, I can understand though. Afghanistan and Haiti are so rich. The corporations are drooling, imagining all that wealth they can get their hands on. In Afghanistan they have that magical oil (I mean natural gas) pipeline that will never be built. In Haiti they have...ummm, well I guess there's a well somewhere with drinking water that won't kill you.

Who am I to talk though? I guess I am just one of those weird people who think that Iraq was wrong but Afghanistan was, and is, very right. Am I alone? Probably! I am hated by hippies and soldiers alike. That's why I won't post my name 

 

[GAP]

After coming back from Viet Nam and listening to the American protesters and the total Canadian lack of knowledge, I simply kept it to myself and didn't bother discussing it with people who couldn't or wouldn't listen to another side of the arguement. The protesters do not want to know the how and why, it detracts from their agenda.

Not much has changed in those 30+ years, even the media coverage. While I think the media should cover the event, they should be "reporting the news" not "making the news". The media's job is do an unbias report on what is happening and to present both sides of the issue. Has anyone seen any space being utilized for the counter arguements in this case???

As for the protesters, some of those are the very same people that 10 years down the line will be running for the NDP and quoting how they stood up the warmongering Conservative government's involvment in Afghanistan and other ilk.  The sad part is some will actually get elected, and maybe become leader of the party...ooops..sorry (hic) Jack!

While they have the right to protest, and we, conversly, have the right to call them idiots and misinformed, we have to as the question "what are we doing about it??"

They have put up posters decrying the aggression in our Universities and other public places, but all I ever see is the occasional yellow ribbon on a bumper saying "Support our Troops". More importantly, what specifically are "YOU" doing?

 

[Guest]

This some good debating.  I'd like to add another argument in favour of being more tolerant of protestors.  And thats because at least they gave enough of a crap in the morning when they got up to do three things:  they cared enough about Canada and the world to attempt to get informed,  they had enough brains to put together an opinion and they took the time to do somethig about it.  I can respect all that and I think that there are way too many people who don't do even one of those three things.  Rights aren't just for defending, they are there to be used.  It takes more than soldiers to defend a right.  There have to be people to define those rights, there have to be people to teach the significance of those rights and pass on the associated values, there have to be people to enforce those rights, and there have to be people who use those rights.  So next time you see a protestor, give'em a hug and thanks.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Some people will say to their grand kids "I protested monsters!"

Others will say "I fought them"