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I found this photo of the new Aussie Amb...
Ambulance Replacement (Mega thread)
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Features, hmm, lets see:
A big honking oxygen tank (or a LOX system, or an oxygen concentrator system) with 4 outlets (one per stretcher)
The ability to hold 2 Cots and 2 litters or 4 litters
Lots of internal storage space (I liked the over the cab storage in the Rover I had in Bosnia)
A hatch between front and back
AC
suitable monitor to include NIBP, SP02, Rate & rythm
Power outlets for infusion pumps, incubators, etc.
Built in electric suction
Blue overhead lights internally
Lots of external storage compartments, a 120v converter kit for external power supply, a boiling vessel, excellent cross country mobility, superior suspension, light mast a la tech rescue trucks.
And while we're wishin', how about dedicated air evac birds?
DF
A big honking oxygen tank (or a LOX system, or an oxygen concentrator system) with 4 outlets (one per stretcher)
The ability to hold 2 Cots and 2 litters or 4 litters
Lots of internal storage space (I liked the over the cab storage in the Rover I had in Bosnia)
A hatch between front and back
AC
suitable monitor to include NIBP, SP02, Rate & rythm
Power outlets for infusion pumps, incubators, etc.
Built in electric suction
Blue overhead lights internally
Lots of external storage compartments, a 120v converter kit for external power supply, a boiling vessel, excellent cross country mobility, superior suspension, light mast a la tech rescue trucks.
And while we're wishin', how about dedicated air evac birds?
DF
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From today's National Post, fair dealings and all. The emphasis is mine, if you didn't know:
$18B bolstering just a start
Air Force head: 75 aircraft on order: Planes in service now will need replacing soon
Chris Wattie
National Post
Friday, August 25, 2006
The head of the Canadian air force says that $18-billion and 75 new aircraft are only a start at rebuilding an air force that was at one time the fourth largest in the world.
Lieutenant-General Steve Lucas told the National Post yesterday the purchases of new heavy transport planes, fleets of new helicopters and replacements for the military's Hercules cargo planes are a good beginning, but more will soon be needed.
"Not only can we see the light at the end of the tunnel, we can see beyond the end of the tunnel and we are moving rapidly to that," he said during an interview with the Post editorial board.
Ottawa announced in June that it will buy 16 CH-47 Chinook heavy lift helicopters and four C-17 Globemaster cargo jets for a total cost of $8-billion. Another 17 aircraft will be bought to replace Canada's C-130 Hercules transport planes for about $4.9-billion.
That comes on top of a 2004 announcement to buy 28 new ship-borne helicopters for $5-billion, a contract that has been mired in legal action since the Sikorsky S-92 won the competition.
"On the [air] mobility side we're going to have much more capability than we've had in the past," Lt.-Gen. Lucas said.
But he said he will eventually need even more planes, including new search and rescue aircraft, replacements for the CF-18 fighters, new surveillance aircraft and ground attack and medical evacuation helicopters -- all within the next decade.
"I still believe that we are going to need escort helicopters for our Chinooks for example ... with both a sensor package and a 'shoot' capability," he said, "followed by probably something like joint strike fighter, long-range patrol aircraft ... or some other surveillance platform."
Paul Manson, a former air force general and chief of defence staff, said the latest spending is just enough to help the military catch up after decades of neglect. Over the past 10 years, the air force lost more than half of its aircraft to age and funding cuts.
"There's an awful lot of catch-up going on," he said. "The need for the air force in particular became so critical that the government had to make these major announcements."
The ageing Hercules fleet was in particularly bad shape, with older aircraft beginning to fall out of service because the cost of refurbishing them was so high.
And Mr. Manson said it will take "an impressive amount of money" to bring the air force back up to strength.
"The trend from this government is very good, but the amounts to address this shortfall will be huge," he said. "It takes 10 years to bring these programs, these new aircraft, on-line."
"You can't just go out and buy these things at the store."
Mr. Manson said Canada's fleet of CF-18 fighter-bombers, introduced into service more than 25 years ago, will have to be replaced by 2018. "And they've got to start thinking seriously about what we'll get to replace it now," he said.
The CP-140 Aurora long-range patrol aircraft also just completed an upgrade, but are just as old and will need replacing in the next decade.
Lt.-Gen. Lucas said he is enthused at the prospect of introducing so many new aircraft into service, starting with the giant C-17 cargo planes which will be delivered to Canada within the next year.
"The challenge for us ... over the next couple of years is being able to do all the things we're trying to do. We're going to be continuing to operate old equipment at a high operational tempo at the same time as we're making a huge transition from the old to the new aircraft," he said.
"It is a huge amount of work that has to be done within a relatively short period of time."
Chinook heavy lift choppers are to be delivered to the Canadian Forces by 2010, and Lt.-Gen. Lucas added: "We're looking at introducing that particular platform in theatre [in Afghanistan] even sooner."
And he said the air force will eventually send its own attack aircraft to Afghanistan to support the 2,300 Canadian soldiers now there on the ground. "I would like to see us make that contribution," he said. "At some point in time I think we'll be called forward: I just don't know when that time might be."
cwattie@nationalpost.com
$18B bolstering just a start
Air Force head: 75 aircraft on order: Planes in service now will need replacing soon
Chris Wattie
National Post
Friday, August 25, 2006
The head of the Canadian air force says that $18-billion and 75 new aircraft are only a start at rebuilding an air force that was at one time the fourth largest in the world.
Lieutenant-General Steve Lucas told the National Post yesterday the purchases of new heavy transport planes, fleets of new helicopters and replacements for the military's Hercules cargo planes are a good beginning, but more will soon be needed.
"Not only can we see the light at the end of the tunnel, we can see beyond the end of the tunnel and we are moving rapidly to that," he said during an interview with the Post editorial board.
Ottawa announced in June that it will buy 16 CH-47 Chinook heavy lift helicopters and four C-17 Globemaster cargo jets for a total cost of $8-billion. Another 17 aircraft will be bought to replace Canada's C-130 Hercules transport planes for about $4.9-billion.
That comes on top of a 2004 announcement to buy 28 new ship-borne helicopters for $5-billion, a contract that has been mired in legal action since the Sikorsky S-92 won the competition.
"On the [air] mobility side we're going to have much more capability than we've had in the past," Lt.-Gen. Lucas said.
But he said he will eventually need even more planes, including new search and rescue aircraft, replacements for the CF-18 fighters, new surveillance aircraft and ground attack and medical evacuation helicopters -- all within the next decade.
"I still believe that we are going to need escort helicopters for our Chinooks for example ... with both a sensor package and a 'shoot' capability," he said, "followed by probably something like joint strike fighter, long-range patrol aircraft ... or some other surveillance platform."
Paul Manson, a former air force general and chief of defence staff, said the latest spending is just enough to help the military catch up after decades of neglect. Over the past 10 years, the air force lost more than half of its aircraft to age and funding cuts.
"There's an awful lot of catch-up going on," he said. "The need for the air force in particular became so critical that the government had to make these major announcements."
The ageing Hercules fleet was in particularly bad shape, with older aircraft beginning to fall out of service because the cost of refurbishing them was so high.
And Mr. Manson said it will take "an impressive amount of money" to bring the air force back up to strength.
"The trend from this government is very good, but the amounts to address this shortfall will be huge," he said. "It takes 10 years to bring these programs, these new aircraft, on-line."
"You can't just go out and buy these things at the store."
Mr. Manson said Canada's fleet of CF-18 fighter-bombers, introduced into service more than 25 years ago, will have to be replaced by 2018. "And they've got to start thinking seriously about what we'll get to replace it now," he said.
The CP-140 Aurora long-range patrol aircraft also just completed an upgrade, but are just as old and will need replacing in the next decade.
Lt.-Gen. Lucas said he is enthused at the prospect of introducing so many new aircraft into service, starting with the giant C-17 cargo planes which will be delivered to Canada within the next year.
"The challenge for us ... over the next couple of years is being able to do all the things we're trying to do. We're going to be continuing to operate old equipment at a high operational tempo at the same time as we're making a huge transition from the old to the new aircraft," he said.
"It is a huge amount of work that has to be done within a relatively short period of time."
Chinook heavy lift choppers are to be delivered to the Canadian Forces by 2010, and Lt.-Gen. Lucas added: "We're looking at introducing that particular platform in theatre [in Afghanistan] even sooner."
And he said the air force will eventually send its own attack aircraft to Afghanistan to support the 2,300 Canadian soldiers now there on the ground. "I would like to see us make that contribution," he said. "At some point in time I think we'll be called forward: I just don't know when that time might be."
cwattie@nationalpost.com
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Boy oh boy, what a cool history lesson, I have never seen such an interesting collection of pretty ambulance trucks. I am truly surprised at just how long some of you have been around! 
(We won't talk about what I was doing in 1977. Great year by the way.) I am not using the word Old or at all saying that's a bad thing - I am just saying, it is really neat to see the different possibilities for amb variants. I realize now that even if it seems we've had the same old kit forever, nothing is permanent and the equipment does evolve. Eventually.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a CUCV? And is that new Crash Amb a civvie pattern box truck? Pictures please Heathen for us slow kids.
I was recently doing no-duff coverage out of an LSVW amb, for the first time since going to work on civvie side, and I am seeing that thing with a whole new set of eyes. I had grave misgivings about the deficiencies of the pt care set-up. I think it was mentioned on here about the importance of informing on the difficulties we encounter in trying to perform our duties - I am going to send up my concerns when the new season opens next week. However I also feel a need to emphasize the features that absolutely must change, in order to provide acceptable prehospital care.
OK, I can't figure out how to quote stuff so sorry to repeat points, but here goes:
SUCTION. Battery-powered portable, with adapter to charge in truck, and Wall Mounted. And I'd like to see the V Vac traded for a ResQVac. Reliable, accessible suction, that can actually do the job. There is no excuse for not having what kit we do have on-hand serviceable and with the right accessories - as in more than one Yankauer and proper tubing - but even if my manual and 02 powered kit had been in perfect condition, I still feel they would have been inadequate at protecting the airway of someone held merciless on a backboard.
TRUCK MOUNTED 02 for all pts. Class I intervention for all critical pts, need I say more. (Yes I do, TBI TBI TBI. Did I mention high-flow 02 for all trauma pts??)
2 COTS + 2 LITTERS are a great idea as it is hard to transport in any other posn but supine. I'd like the setup to be more conducive to rolling a boarded pt when vomiting, but I guess with the need for making every amb count (Take as many pts as possible) no variant will get much roomier.
CONNECTION to the driver compartment - not just comms although I'd settle for those over nothing. Serious safety compromise for the crew to not be able to know what's going on front and back, regardless of pt care issues.
Venting, AC and heat - enviro needs to be controlled by the attending. Particularly given our high incidence of enviro illnesses.
Weapon racks in the back. No attending medic should be in the back with a C7 in a perfect world. However I have sat on a loaded rifle. Sh*t happens, so we should just accept it and create proper storage instead of pretending we don't put weapons loose in pt compartments.
Without being able to protect an airway, the rest is just smoke and mirrors. When you get down to the nitty-gritty - when you actually clamber into the back of the LS, and envision how it's going to go down if you need to suction your pt with that Flynn getup - or if you need to roll that pt while off-road and you can't make any contact with your driver - you realize everything else means jacksh*t and ALS skills don't matter if you can't even safely do first aid. Worse than first aid, if you feel you are risking your pt more by transporting them than the original injury would've in the first place.
I agree with all the other features listed, but after having to face the reality of the LS Amb, I am adamant that the safety issues need to be addressed soonest and not just when we move on from the current avail veh's.
This is the time of night when I start to get light-headed from the height and fumes of being up on my soapbox; so I'll sumup. :-X
(We won't talk about what I was doing in 1977. Great year by the way.) I am not using the word Old or at all saying that's a bad thing - I am just saying, it is really neat to see the different possibilities for amb variants. I realize now that even if it seems we've had the same old kit forever, nothing is permanent and the equipment does evolve. Eventually. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a CUCV? And is that new Crash Amb a civvie pattern box truck? Pictures please Heathen for us slow kids.
I was recently doing no-duff coverage out of an LSVW amb, for the first time since going to work on civvie side, and I am seeing that thing with a whole new set of eyes. I had grave misgivings about the deficiencies of the pt care set-up. I think it was mentioned on here about the importance of informing on the difficulties we encounter in trying to perform our duties - I am going to send up my concerns when the new season opens next week. However I also feel a need to emphasize the features that absolutely must change, in order to provide acceptable prehospital care.
OK, I can't figure out how to quote stuff so sorry to repeat points, but here goes:
SUCTION. Battery-powered portable, with adapter to charge in truck, and Wall Mounted. And I'd like to see the V Vac traded for a ResQVac. Reliable, accessible suction, that can actually do the job. There is no excuse for not having what kit we do have on-hand serviceable and with the right accessories - as in more than one Yankauer and proper tubing - but even if my manual and 02 powered kit had been in perfect condition, I still feel they would have been inadequate at protecting the airway of someone held merciless on a backboard.
TRUCK MOUNTED 02 for all pts. Class I intervention for all critical pts, need I say more. (Yes I do, TBI TBI TBI. Did I mention high-flow 02 for all trauma pts??)
2 COTS + 2 LITTERS are a great idea as it is hard to transport in any other posn but supine. I'd like the setup to be more conducive to rolling a boarded pt when vomiting, but I guess with the need for making every amb count (Take as many pts as possible) no variant will get much roomier.
CONNECTION to the driver compartment - not just comms although I'd settle for those over nothing. Serious safety compromise for the crew to not be able to know what's going on front and back, regardless of pt care issues.
Venting, AC and heat - enviro needs to be controlled by the attending. Particularly given our high incidence of enviro illnesses.
Weapon racks in the back. No attending medic should be in the back with a C7 in a perfect world. However I have sat on a loaded rifle. Sh*t happens, so we should just accept it and create proper storage instead of pretending we don't put weapons loose in pt compartments.
Without being able to protect an airway, the rest is just smoke and mirrors. When you get down to the nitty-gritty - when you actually clamber into the back of the LS, and envision how it's going to go down if you need to suction your pt with that Flynn getup - or if you need to roll that pt while off-road and you can't make any contact with your driver - you realize everything else means jacksh*t and ALS skills don't matter if you can't even safely do first aid. Worse than first aid, if you feel you are risking your pt more by transporting them than the original injury would've in the first place.
I agree with all the other features listed, but after having to face the reality of the LS Amb, I am adamant that the safety issues need to be addressed soonest and not just when we move on from the current avail veh's.
This is the time of night when I start to get light-headed from the height and fumes of being up on my soapbox; so I'll sumup. :-X
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MommyMedic said:
Two photos for you... CUCV M1010. All the Ambs were 1986 models.
Exterior passenger side. Note the box side and cab mounted spot lights. Also the
separate A/C unit on the front of the box. The diesel burning heater is inside the
long door at the rear of the box. It worked well, but it's small exhaust pipe just below
the door was good at lighting anything within a few inches of it on fire.
2nd shot is the interior with the passenger side stretcher raised. The pullman hatch
is slide open and the attendants seat is down. It could be slid the length of the bench
using a small foot pedal. Also visible are the 24 volt florescent light, and four of the eight
movable hand lamps. The blue tactical lamp is recessed into the roof and isn't visible
here. If you look at the foot of the bottom right stretcher, you can also see one of the two
interior light switches.
I can think of one that survived until 2002. I haven't seen any since then.
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Looks like the one I drove for CFSME in '04
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I was wondering if anyone had heard of a replacement for the Bison Amb. I know we have just had the upgrade of our old units, but I wonder if they have considerd starting to purchase the Amb version of the LAVIII for our use? The US Marines have been using them for a bit and I would like to know if anyone thinks that it is possible or a good idea to purchase these vehicles for the med service. Ideas? Comments? 
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I was watching a documentary on the US Army Surgical Hospital (forgot which one), and in it, it showed a bradley ambulance. It had the exact, or extremely close set up to the back of our LSVW Ambs, and it also had machine guns (I was stunned), and side gun ports for fighting out of a fire fight... I though...jesus! That is one neat looking thing... I wander when we're going to arm our ambulances... then well...I learned that we've got our guns out and on the Bisons now. Small world eh?
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It took a bit to get the C-6 on the Bison, but we have them and they have been used. An ambulance based on a Bradley might be another idea. Having a good mix of track and wheeled ambs is an option. We don't have the 113 amb anymore thank god. The LAVIII varient would be great, with more room and better suspension,etc even though you have to spend more to get more.
McG
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The USMC uses first or second generation vehicles that are likely older than our Bisons.bisonmedic said:
It might not be a bad idea to replace the entier Bison fleet with LAV III based platforms. We could use the same production run to replace any LAV III that have been lost to combat or accident damages.
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MCG said:
And they need not have turrets. They could be like the Stryker Amb versions.
Staff Weenie
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While I think that nobody here would argue for keeping the current LSVW Ambs, and the current Bison amb fleet, lifecycling the vehicles is a long term procurement thing (read nightmare.....).
If I understand the system correctly, in essence the Army 'owns' all the vehicles - even medical (possibly less the Ford F450 Ambs and a few other small things). They are VMO to the various HS units for our use. Their replacement is thus an Army requirement (DLR issue) to handle. We can identify the need, the preferred vehicle, capability, equipment, etc, but unless the Army says they are going ahead with a project, we will not get a new vehicle.
As an example, we were originally supposed to receive over 120 Bison Ambs. This number was cut back by the Army over and over, until I think that the total will stand around 35 or so. These were also to be allocated two per Reg F Fd Amb, and the rest to the Cbt Arms units for their UMS.
Even if, by some magic pot of gold, CF H Svcs Gp had the money to buy new Ambs, we'd still have to go through the Army. It does sort of make sense, in that ensuring all land components are using common chassis etc, it simplifies the logistical support requirements. It does, however, slow down the whole process considerably, and may mean compromises, as we're only a small player at the bargaining table.
Who knows though - these days, everything is possible, if it can be shown to support Ops.
If I understand the system correctly, in essence the Army 'owns' all the vehicles - even medical (possibly less the Ford F450 Ambs and a few other small things). They are VMO to the various HS units for our use. Their replacement is thus an Army requirement (DLR issue) to handle. We can identify the need, the preferred vehicle, capability, equipment, etc, but unless the Army says they are going ahead with a project, we will not get a new vehicle.
As an example, we were originally supposed to receive over 120 Bison Ambs. This number was cut back by the Army over and over, until I think that the total will stand around 35 or so. These were also to be allocated two per Reg F Fd Amb, and the rest to the Cbt Arms units for their UMS.
Even if, by some magic pot of gold, CF H Svcs Gp had the money to buy new Ambs, we'd still have to go through the Army. It does sort of make sense, in that ensuring all land components are using common chassis etc, it simplifies the logistical support requirements. It does, however, slow down the whole process considerably, and may mean compromises, as we're only a small player at the bargaining table.
Who knows though - these days, everything is possible, if it can be shown to support Ops.
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No there is no replacement in the works.
The veh you are thinking about is a Stryker Amb. It is not quite the same vehicle as the LAV 3 but close. It is also huge like a LAV. Almost too big as the passager compartment is larger (more head space) and has no turret. It only mounts a MG on a pintle so there would be min improvement as far as armament.
As long as we run Bison and Coyote fleets, we will have parts for those veh.
The veh you are thinking about is a Stryker Amb. It is not quite the same vehicle as the LAV 3 but close. It is also huge like a LAV. Almost too big as the passager compartment is larger (more head space) and has no turret. It only mounts a MG on a pintle so there would be min improvement as far as armament.
As long as we run Bison and Coyote fleets, we will have parts for those veh.
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I agree that we won't see any type of product in the near future, but if we start now, who knows, maybe one day...
Thanks for the input guys.
Thanks for the input guys.
Staff Weenie
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In the short term, I would speculate that the answer is no. Between the deployed Bison Ambs, the Ops Stock, and CMTC stock, there's precious few to go around.
Hopefully, the senior civilian and military personnel in the Govt and DND/CF will find a means to purchase a new fleet of armoured Ambs, but there are just so many competing priorities at the moment. And, with the stocks mentioned above, they can maintain our current theatre requirement - the spot they are truly needed.
Sadly, years of putting of life cycling all of the CF's major platforms & vehs has meant that virtually everything big and mechanical is due to rust out at the same time. So, when the pot 'o' gold is only so big - where does it go?
Hopefully, the senior civilian and military personnel in the Govt and DND/CF will find a means to purchase a new fleet of armoured Ambs, but there are just so many competing priorities at the moment. And, with the stocks mentioned above, they can maintain our current theatre requirement - the spot they are truly needed.
Sadly, years of putting of life cycling all of the CF's major platforms & vehs has meant that virtually everything big and mechanical is due to rust out at the same time. So, when the pot 'o' gold is only so big - where does it go?
medicineman
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I seem to remember a conversation at the DEW factory with one of the reps regarding this when they rolled out the first refurbed Bison Amb - they were looking at taking a few more of the mortar and command variants and cycling them through as ambulances instead of the original intended platforms.
MM
MM
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As for the LSVW, we could go back to the CUCV concept for garrison duties and other basic med coverage taskings. Nothing fancy, just the basics. Armoured ambs will be the mainstay of future operations because I don't think a soft-skin amb should be in this neck of the woods.
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