• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Alternative Snowbird Aircraft (merged)

Cdn Aviator,

You mentioned that the retention of the Snowbirds is a matter of debate within the Air Force.  Can you elaborate on the arguments being used, both pro and con?

Other than the cost, which is probably minimal (my guess), I can't see a reason why there would be an institutional desire to disband them.

Cheers,
Dan.

PS:  For no particular reason I've added a photo of this year's CF-18 demo aircraft.
 
According to the Prague Daily Monitor, it may be being considered (shared  in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.):
The Canadian Royal Air Force (RCAF) has voiced interest in the purchase of nine Czech L-159 light fighters for its aerobatics demonstration team Snowbirds, but the Czech Defence Ministry had not reacted for six months to it and only did so in August, the server Euro.cz writes Monday.

Ministry spokesman Andrej Cirtek said as the talks were in their initial stage, he could not elaborate.

The Czech Republic has been trying to sell 47 of the aircraft for years as the Czech military does not need them.

Canada has set aside an equivalent of two billion crowns for the renewal of Snowbirds. At the beginning it was considering extending the life span of the 35-year-old Canadian-made CT-114 Tutors, but later it came up with the idea of the purchase of L-159s, Euro.cz writes.

The Canadian authorities wanted to settle the affair by the beginning of the summer, but then they postponed the decision by six months, Euro.cz writes, but despite this, no one from the Czech Republic checked from the spring till August whether the information on Canada's interest was truthful.

Euro.cz writes that Martin Bartak, former deputy defence minister for strategic planning and now Defence Minister, did not dare or want to discuss the bid during the political turmoil following the March fall of Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek's government.

It was only in early August that Czech air force attache Jan Sykora in Washington flew to Prague to discuss the affair with Czech authorities.

Jan Fulik, a newly appointed deputy defence minister, confirmed in the second half of August that the Czech Republic was interested in the deal.

St.-John Williamson, vice president for business development and sales of Aero Vodochody, aircraft manufacturer, and Mike Mendoza, a special aide to the company's board, then prepared the documents for the talks with Bartak's Canadian opposite number Peter MacKey in Ottawa on September 19.

"As Canada is dealing with the question of a training plane for its air force, it is possible for the Czech L-159 to seek the bid. The Czech army could use the Canadian cargo planes C-17 for the transport of troops and materiel abroad," Cirtek said.

"The only thing we can reveal is the fact that the talks were conducted, while no agreements have been concluded," Martin Danko, public relations manager from the firm Penta, Aero's owner, said.

At first, the Czech military was to buy 72 L-159 Alcas, under a contract signed 1997. The military later said it would only keep 24 of them and the government decided in 2004 that it wanted to sell 47 aircraft.

If you can read Czech, here's the original Euro.cz article - - more also from the Ottawa Citizen and United Press International.

Here's what it looks like:
alca_index.jpg

and here's some info/stats on it from the Czech Armed Forces and Wikipedia.

 
I hope the instructions come in Czech, too English. 

edit:  Never attempt humour until you've had at least one coffee.
 
Interesting. Wouldn't they need more than 9 though ?

I hope the instructions come in Czech, too English.
Reminds me of a Simpson's clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al6ndfn-Bic
 
See the pretty pictures 
http://www.vengasystems.com/news.html

ARINC and Venga Inspect Swiss Aircraft in Bid to Provide New Wings for Canada’s Snowbirds

November 7, 2006
Annapolis, Maryland—ARINC Engineering Services, LLC, and its Canadian partner Venga Aerospace today announced they have started technical discussions with the Swiss Air Force in a bid to provide modern replacement aircraft for Canada’s famed precision military flying team, the Snowbirds. 

In an important step, a team including pilots and engineers from ARINC and Venga has just completed a fact-finding trip to Switzerland. While there, they inspected Hawk trainer aircraft available from the Swiss Air Force, as well as maintenance and modification documents for the planes.

Hi guys,

Firstly, apologies for ressurecting such an old thread!

I'm new to the forum and am hoping you guys can act as providers of the 'jewel in the crown' for me!  :nod:

I build competition scale models for customers and have been tasked with finding a BAE Hawk that has never been modelled. This was a task I thought was impossible until I caught wind of the previously discussed possible use of the Swiss Hawks for the Snowbird team. I BELIEVE there were pics of the proposed scheme and the highlighted quote above seems to reflect this. My plea is for anyone who may have these pictures from when they were published to re-post them or possibly mail them to me!?

PLEASE PLEASE can you help me deliver what I thought was the impossible  :salute:

Kind regards
Mark
 
hawk_man said:
Hi guys,

Firstly, apologies for ressurecting such an old thread!

I'm new to the forum and am hoping you guys can act as providers of the 'jewel in the crown' for me!  :nod:

I build competition scale models for customers and have been tasked with finding a BAE Hawk that has never been modelled. This was a task I thought was impossible until I caught wind of the previously discussed possible use of the Swiss Hawks for the Snowbird team. I BELIEVE there were pics of the proposed scheme and the highlighted quote above seems to reflect this. My plea is for anyone who may have these pictures from when they were published to re-post them or possibly mail them to me!?

PLEASE PLEASE can you help me deliver what I thought was the impossible  :salute:

Kind regards
Mark

There is also talk of the Snowbirds flying these aircraft....
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89783.0.html
 
A buddy of mine is in Japan and sent me some info on it, Thought it was diffrent and wondered what you may think of it.
 
The Tutor will soldier on. When, one day, the Tutor can no longer fly, neither will the Snowbirds.
 
Jammer said:
I doubt that.

Call me pessimistic but with the size of the air force only going in one direction, it ain't looking good. Every large group i have been around in the AF always pointed at the SB as a cut that needs to be made. One day, those officers will be the generals making the decisions.
 
Well, once the BOeing MMA comes along, we can just repurpose the Auroras for a display sqn...
 
dapaterson said:
Well, once the BOeing MMA comes along, we can just repurpose the Auroras for a display sqn...

The first part of your sentence ensures the second one wont happen.
 
Well, once the Boeing MMA Bobardier Q-400 Maritime Patrol Aircraft with 3 hours of endurance comes along, we can just repurpose the Auroras for a display sqn...


Sorry.  Fixed it.

>:D

 
dapaterson said:
Well, once the Boeing MMA Bobardier Q-400 Maritime Patrol Aircraft with 3 hours of endurance comes along, we can just repurpose the Auroras for a display sqn...


Sorry.  Fixed it.

>:D







Bobardier ?  ;D
 
George Wallace said:
Bobardier ?  ;D


Yep! That will be the new name when Taliban Jacques, Gilles and Iggy Iffy Icarus form a coalition government, the "bomb" part of Bombardier sounds so military, so un-Canadian doesn't it?
 
Apparently they are getting around to replace the jets for around $755M.....I'd quote the article, but........
 
GAP said:
Apparently they are getting around to replace the jets for around $755M.....I'd quote the article, but........
Now we can  ;D - Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.
As the Snowbirds fleet appears set to be replaced, a former member of the squadron says it is too early for him to offer an opinion regarding the $755-million price tag for the new planes.

Documents the Ottawa Citizen obtained through the Access to Information Law indicate Canadian Forces intends to spend $755 million on a replacement fleet for the aging CT-114 Tutor aircraft the 15 Wing-based Snowbirds Squadron uses in its aerobatic flying.

The Snowbirds are to be replaced by 2020. The Citizen article states the air force is currently examining a range of options.

In 1995-96, Moose Jaw's Claude Lebel was a captain with the Snowbirds Squadron.

While Lebel said he knows the Snowbirds are a valuable and beloved organization, which serves to showcase Canada's air force abroad and instill pride in Canadians, he said he would be interested in learning how the government intends to spend money for the squadron before offering an opinion, as well as learning where budget cuts might have to be made in order to allow such funding.

According to Lebel, any aircraft to replace the Tutor would need to be capable of travelling long distances, as well as have the capacity to conduct aerobatic manoeuvres for which the Snowbirds are noted. He said the Tutor is a well-suited craft for this task.

While Lebel wasn't willing to offer an opinion regarding the amount of money to be spent on replacing the Snowbirds at this time, he said if the money is available when the time comes to replace the Tutors, he doesn't see why the air force wouldn't want to keep the squadron in the air. He said the Snowbirds certainly hold value for Canadians, after all.

"Here in Moose Jaw, you can see the pride in the Snowbirds," he said.

On Friday, the Times-Herald was unable to attain a comment from Canadian Forces pertaining to the replacement fleet funding. The Times-Herald was also unable to attain a comment from the Snowbirds Squadron.
Moose Jaw Times-Herald, 18 Aug 12
 
Now that's incisive journalism at its finest  :nod:
....a former member of the squadron says it is too early for him to offer an opinion.

...he would be interested in learning how the government intends to spend money for the squadron before offering an opinion

While Lebel wasn't willing to offer an opinion...

....the Times-Herald was unable to attain a comment from Canadian Forces

The Times-Herald was also unable to attain a comment from the Snowbirds Squadron.
Perhaps the headline should read:
This just in: Sqn member almost 15 years ago has nothing to say!
CF confirms it has nothing to say either.
 
Back
Top