Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case

[Journeyman]

…. so maybe this will all go away.

In both US and Canadian politics, there will be some for whom -- equally mindlessly -- the ruling leaders can do either no wrong or nothing right. 

An increasing number of other people are apparently finding behaviours increasingly abhorrent, but will move on with the next "SQUIRREL!"  Personally, I'm finding this current  SNC Lavalin 'crisis' to be more of the same from both that company, Irvings, etc., and whichever party tends to be governing (although I feel that the Liberals tend to be worse at lining their pockets).

As such, while it's already stayed in the news longer than I expected, I can't help but believe (being more cynical than milnews.ca  ), that the sheeple will eventually wander off, and it will indeed go away.  It will be brought up periodically, but the reactions will become increasingly blasé.

 

[Rifleman62]

Tony, my rebuttal.

Don't forget, though, that he was first appointed into the DM ranks by this guy ...(Harper)

Was the best person for the job at the time, and unaware of partisanship.

Quote from: Chris Pook on Yesterday at 23:44:09
...The press.  - The notion that the PMO can wall-paper the media with op-ed writers and experts is not going down well with the club.  It tends to give credence to all those who believe that the news is something less than it professes ...

Well, if you believe that, then how much doubt did you express when a media outlet, one of those "bought" by Team Red, came out with allegations of political meddling in a legal case based on unnamed sources?  A lot of people were happy to forget the Globe's alleged track record of being in the tank for the Liberals, until they published something bashing said Liberals - where were the critiques of those who believe the news is something less than it professes?

It's about the money. Getting a national scoop, to add to the G & M's reputation as a news outlet, to increase circulation, get its scoop quoted by everyone.

What happens now. I hope the GG, as posted previously, dissolves this Parliament, the Conservatives win a majority, govern responsibly, and JWR is appointed first indigenous GG shortly after. Even if JWR is re-elected as a Liberal, she should be appointed GG.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suppose JT could resign and another senior Liberal could take over as PM if the mess continues to spiral.

 

[Jed]

Tony, my rebuttal.

Was the best person for the job at the time, and unaware of partisanship.


It's about the money. Getting a national scoop, to add to the G & M's reputation as a news outlet, to increase circulation, get its scoop quoted by everyone.

What happens now. I hope the GG, as posted previously, dissolves this Parliament, the Conservatives win a majority, govern responsibly, and JWR is appointed first indigenous GG shortly after. Even if JWR is re-elected as a Liberal, she should be appointed GG.

Ah , probably the best outcome for the Canadian people. Too damn good to actually transpire though.

 

[Remius]

That would include the "bought" media that brought us the first story starting this thread based on unnamed sources?  Or shouldn't we not have believed that, either? I don't know about that -- a lot of people I know who keep at least some track of politics have been riveted by this one, even those interested by whazzup south of the border.  YMMV

My  facebook feed was full of people I know watching and commenting.  Even here at work where politics is rarely discussed it was brought up.

More people are catching on to this story as it barrels on fire towards a cliff...

Agreed on the media.  They broke the story and they are all over this. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

BTW all (including mods), thanks for keeping the discussion all detailed & civil here.

I suppose JT could resign and another senior Liberal could take over as PM if the mess continues to spiral.

Any specific "senior Liberals" in mind?

Was the best person for the job at the time, and unaware of partisanship.

Could very well be the case -- but he stayed in the DM position for the entire tenure of Team Blue and ended up as the 2 i/c to the person then holding the Clerk of PCO's position, all under the same PM.  May 2006 (start of DM'ship) thru November 2015 (end of Team Blue's latest tenure) seems a long time to hang onto someone one suspects of alleged partisanship/disloyalty/less-than-full compliance.

It's about the money. Getting a national scoop, to add to the G & M's reputation as a news outlet, to increase circulation, get its scoop quoted by everyone.

Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed & agreed (especially about the making money bits).  Still doesn't speak to why some people were skeptical about "bought" MSM sharing information without also being skeptical about this information coming from the same, allegedly tainted source.

What happens now. I hope the GG, as posted previously, dissolves this Parliament, the Conservatives win a majority, govern responsibly, and JWR is appointed first indigenous GG shortly after. Even if JWR is re-elected as a Liberal, she should be appointed GG.

My  :2c: for what it's worth, in order ...

• GG dissolving Parliament:  Not likely to happen[/color], given GG's tend to give priority to the elected bodies' preferences, no matter who's in the wheelhouse.
• Conservative majority in October:  Based my admittedly less-than-robust radar read right this second, I think it's too early to see if they'll make a majority or even win, but this is a clear kick in the 'nads for Team Red - and a lot can happen either way between now and October.
• Governing responsibly:  As one would expect any gov't to do. (I know - dare to dream ...)
• JWR as GG (1):  Fabulous idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - first I've heard that option suggested
• JWR as GG (2):  Would depend on who's PM on whether that would happen (hard for me to predict so early and in the middle of this big storm - see yellow bit above) - doubt if this one would if he's PM again.

My  facebook feed was full of people I know watching and commenting.

I'm intrigued by how many people who are FAR from fans of Team Red, especially those frustrated with what they consider "cabinet by quota", suggesting this Liberal cabinet minister should be PM.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Not many things can smell what's in the wind better than a bloodhound. The Press is one of those things.They can tell their benefactor is in some serious doodoo here, so they're choice is to either start sucking up to their next potential grocery bringer, or go into full on spin mode.

 

[Remius]

What happens now. I hope the GG, as posted previously, dissolves this Parliament, the Conservatives win a majority, govern responsibly, and JWR is appointed first indigenous GG shortly after. Even if JWR is re-elected as a Liberal, she should be appointed GG.

On what grounds would the GG dissolve parliament?

A no confidence vote has not occurred.

Elections have not been called.

There is no constitutional crisis.

While the GG has the absolute power to do so, that office needs a reason beyond allegations.  If the RCMP get called in it is doubtful anything will be determined until well after the next election anyways.  As damning as JWR's testimony is there are others that still need to be heard.  I'm convinced that something did indeed happen as she described it but we don't just dissolve governments on the word of one person.  Due process is required.

The more likely scenario is that the PM resigns or is pushed out (that is what I think is more likely) by caucus.  The LPC picks a leader who has the confidence of the house to form government (they have enough of a majority to do this) and runs in the next election.

JWR will never be appointed to anything by the current government.  sucks but they put their line in the sand.  Would a CPC government appoint her? Maybe.

She would make a good choice yes but I doubt that can happen in this climate. 

If JT gets pushed out, maybe JWR should make a run for the leadership (unfortunately the liberal machine might be too much against her though).

 

[Kirkhill]

Don't forget, though, that he was first appointed into the DM ranks by this guy ...

... and kept there when he could have EASILY been moved/punted by any PM thinking he wasn't up to the job.

However, if you want to read tea leaves, there's always this @ LinkedIn - screen capture attached if link doesn't work for you.
Well, if you believe that, then how much doubt did you express when a media outlet, one of those "bought" by Team Red, came out with allegations of political meddling in a legal case based on unnamed sources?  A lot of people were happy to forget the Globe's alleged track record of being in the tank for the Liberals, until they published something bashing said Liberals - where were the critiques of those who believe the news is something less than it professes?

Also, do you think this is any different from any other government in power at any level, be they Team Red, Team Blue or Team Orange?

All that said ... :nod:

Power is usually a means to an end.  The end is self-aggrandizement, personal wealth or, worst of all in my belief, a desire to change the world to conform to your beliefs.

Butts, my opinion, is one of the most dangerous type: driven by conviction - and thus, along with Telford, not bothered by the niceties.

Warnick is may be only a common grifter willing to go along to get along. 

I suspect that the higher the pay grade, and the closer to the centre of power one gets, the more one is likely to run into both Wernick and Butts clones.  And that, to me, is a problem, if there is an entrenched belief in a Natural Governing Party.

:cheers:  Cheers, mate!

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bit of analysis by someone who's been around these circles a bit ...

We now know why the prime minister, the finance minister, their most senior aides and the country’s top bureaucrat put so much pressure on Jody Wilson-Raybould last fall to intervene in a criminal court case on behalf of a Montreal company.

It was the votes — votes the Liberals in Quebec City and the Liberals in Ottawa thought they were sure to lose if that company, SNC-Lavalin, decamped from its Montreal headquarters for foreign shores, a move it was threatening to make to avoid punishment, should it be found guilty of the corporate fraud it is alleged to have committed in Libya.

“SNC announcing they’re leaving six months before the election is bad,” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s senior adviser Mathieu Bouchard allegedly said to Wilson-Raybould as he was pressuring her to intervene. “We need to be re-elected.”

Well, here’s some news for Bouchard and everyone else in the Trudeau PMO: you know what’s worse than SNC-Lavalin moving out of Montreal six months before an election? The testimony Wilson-Raybould gave Wednesday afternoon at a House of Commons committee. It was bad. Real bad ...

More @ link
Meanwhile, attached find another copy of JWR's opening statement (from her web site) if you haven't already read it - LOTS of detail w/dates, names, what was said (see what taking notes does?).

 

[Kirkhill]

Unlikely, the motion would be voted down by the Liberal majority.

I believe that if Her Excellency the Governor General assessed that the Government had lost the confidence of the people, independent of a lower house vote, there could be action taken, but that is unlikely at this point.

I believe the Aussies tried that a while back.  It prompted a lovely little dust up (kind of like the King-Byng affair locally) and a ditty:  "Get your dungarees off, Gough. Get your dungarees off."

 

[Kirkhill]

milnews:

"Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed & agreed (especially about the making money bits).  Still doesn't speak to why some people were skeptical about "bought" MSM sharing information without also being skeptical about this information coming from the same, allegedly tainted source."

For the same reasons that some days I can convince myself that purple is blue and other days I see purple as red.  And it becomes harder when purple is mauve or violet.  ;D

 

[Remius]

I believe the Aussies tried that a while back.  It prompted a lovely little dust up (kind of like the King-Byng affair locally) and a ditty:  "Get your dungarees off, Gough. Get your dungarees off."

Both those cases involved a constitutional crisis.  Although the King Byng issue had a scandal involving bribes it was the constitutional crisis that was the problem.  king Byng thing was about the GG letting another party try to govern in a minority situation.  The aussies' crisis of 1975 was the outright dismissal of a PM based on confidence issue (an issue that could never happen here due to how our senate differs).

Neither is a good precedent for what is happening now.

What is happening now is quite unprecedented. 

 

[Rifleman62]

Listening online to local radio from Wpg and Kelowna, Liberal MP's talking points are they believe the PM, he has done nothing wrong, protecting jobs.

What's on your local radio?

 

[Kirkhill]

Both those cases involved a constitutional crisis.  Although the King Byng issue had a scandal involving bribes it was the constitutional crisis that was the problem.  king Byng thing was about the GG letting another party try to govern in a minority situation.  The aussies' crisis of 1975 was the outright dismissal of a PM based on confidence issue (an issue that could never happen here due to how our senate differs).

Neither is a good precedent for what is happening now.

What is happening now is quite unprecedented.

Strangely, (I'm sure you will appreciate this), I agree.

Options for the opposition look to be to keep this in the news for the next 8 months with confidence votes and committees, calls for investigations, tying in pipelines and the Norman case and take advantage of new leaks as they come out.

Options for the government?  Rag the puck until the election and trust to the fates?  Fire the entire headshed and hope to god you can rebuild a reputation?

Next week or 8 months from now a bunch of Liberals are going to be looking for a new source of income.

 

[Jed]

Strangely, (I'm sure you will appreciate this), I agree.

Options for the opposition look to be to keep this in the news for the next 8 months with confidence votes and committees, calls for investigations, tying in pipelines and the Norman case and take advantage of new leaks as they come out.

Options for the government?  Rag the puck until the election and trust to the fates?  Fire the entire headshed and hope to god you can rebuild a reputation?

Next week or 8 months from now a bunch of Liberals are going to be looking for a new source of income.

So the Canadian people are in for piss poor governance until the end of 2019 as more and more biased and unethical behavior emanates from Ottawa? Great, how uplifting.

 

[Kirkhill]

Jed:

Just consider it like managing a pregnancy.  9 months and a surprise. 

One further point:

About Jody Wilson-Raybould and her testimony. 

I was struck by how calm and composed she was.  I sensed that this was a person completely at ease with her situation and I believe that that is in large part that as an "outsider" in Ottawa she draws her strength not from the locals but from her roots - her family, her clan and her beliefs.  I suspect that regardless of the outcome she knows she can always go home and live with herself.

The nearest parallel that came to my mind was that of Thomas More. 

Although I expect Ms. Wilson-Raybould to be less ill-used than More.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Jed:

Just consider it like managing a pregnancy.  9 months and a surprise. 

One further point:

About Jody Wilson-Raybould and her testimony. 

I was struck by how calm and composed she was.  I sensed that this was a person completely at ease with her situation and I believe that that is in large part that as an "outsider" in Ottawa she draws her strength not from the locals but from her roots - her family, her clan and her beliefs.  I suspect that regardless of the outcome she knows she can always go home and live with herself.

The nearest parallel that came to my mind was that of Thomas More. 

Although I expect Ms. Wilson-Raybould to be less ill-used than More.

Or, and this is just the meanderings of a sleep deprived mind, The cynics among us could see it as her having a game plan toward future employment, and has just Bangalore Torpedoed a couple of very big obstacles in her centre of axis.

 

[Kirkhill]

Or, and this is just the meanderings of a sleep deprived mind, The cynics among us could see it as her having a game plan toward future employment, and has just Bangalore Torpedoed a couple of very big obstacles in her centre of axis.

That too.  But she appeared way too calm, at least to my eyes, to be game-playing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Or, and this is just the meanderings of a sleep deprived mind ...

Who still knows enough to take detailed notes while being deprived of said sleep

... The cynics among us could see it as her having a game plan toward future employment, and has just Bangalore Torpedoed a couple of very big obstacles in her centre of axis.

So young to be so cynical ...

That said, I, too, wonder about her long game. op: