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Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter the patriot
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Why don't we fire up the Spanish Inquisition mindset?  Let's all whip ourselves senseless so we can send the proper virtue signalling to the powers that be.

Gawd, if society, and in particular, the military community continues to run down these politically correct rabbit holes we will be lucky to have a functioning military organization let alone a world class organization.
 
Indigenous military members endure 'systemic' racism

See also,

Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?! 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/315.0
13 pages.
 
I'll add that there's definitely systematic racism in the CAF. Its so systematic, that 2 Bde sat in a drum circle on parade and was presented with a real old tomahawk from some First Nations elders to take with them on their next deployment.

An entire Bde of racists!
 
A new Class Action ...
Systemic racial discrimination and harassment are the basis of a class action filed in the Federal Court by Stewart McKelvey on behalf of three former members of the Canadian Forces. The Plaintiffs, who propose to represent all persons in Canada who have been enrolled as members in the Canadian Forces and who are or who identify as racial minorities, visible minorities or Aboriginal peoples, allege that the Canadian Forces, from top to bottom, has failed to protect racial minorities and Aboriginals from racism within the ranks.

"When individuals enroll in the Canadian Forces, they expect to serve, advance and protect the ideals we value and enjoy as Canadians – equality, fundamental justice and human dignity," said Scott Campbell, co-counsel representing the Plaintiffs. "But our clients allege that the very institution we trust to bring these ideals to the world, has denied them, and those they represent, these basic human rights."

The Statement of Claim outlines the racial harassment and discrimination the Plaintiffs endured while serving as members in the Canadian Forces across Canada and on international soil.  The Statement of Claim also details the resulting injuries, losses and emotional trauma they still endure.

"This filing is a defining moment for Canadian Forces members who have experienced racial harassment and racial discrimination," said Chris Madill, co-counsel representing the Plaintiffs. "We intend to shine a bright light on the alleged behaviours and institutional practices described in the Statement of Claim."

The Statement of Claim alleges that the Canadian Forces is liable for this systemic racial discrimination and harassment, in part because such conduct breaches the equality rights guaranteed by section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The Plaintiffs and their counsel will seek to have the action certified by the Federal Court as a class action and expect others who have experienced racial discrimination and harassment in the Canadian Forces will join the class action.
Statement of Claim (31 pg PDF) here - the allegations haven't been proven in court yet.
 
PuckChaser said:
I'll add that there's definitely systematic racism in the CAF. Its so systematic, that 2 Bde sat in a drum circle on parade and was presented with a real old tomahawk from some First Nations elders to take with them on their next deployment.

An entire Bde of racists!

Oh come on now, we know that you were just patronizing that poor old First Nations gentleman for your own selfish, white guy purposes, right?  :sarcasm:
 
MCG said:
I can't help wonder if the response of only 16 of 230 canvased individuals is not a sign that things are not as bad as the report suggests.  I don't doubt racism occurs and I agree all incidents are unacceptable, but I don't see the evidence supporting the conclusion that it is systemic.  I guess the next big investigation will be to confirm or refute this anecdote based report.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-military-indigenous-racism-report-1.3891862

There's approximately 2300 Aboriginal members in the CAF, 230 were canvassed (10%), yet only 16 responded.

While the other 214 either chose not to respond, or did not have the opportunity to respond; it begs the question why wasn't a larger sample size selected?

Could it be that the other 214 saw the survey and said "this is silly"? Or were they afraid to respond because they have been victims of racism and discrimination?

Either way, it's an awfully small respondent group to call anything systematic.
 
In the link below...1 mbr is aboriginal and the other 2 are Black. Just because a survey was carried out and some people responded, it doesn't mean there isn't systematic racism in the CAF. It's always going to be able to prove when the racism is subliminal i.e. a Caucasian supervisor dealing with a number of minorities.

If this supervisor say grew up in a small town with no exposure to minorities, or was done wrong in the past by a certain minority group, you can't tell me that their judgement dealing with minorities won't be effected by their experience. People are afraid of the unknown/what they don't know....this is a fact!

Yes, we've heard people claim to "just see people as they are and not the colour", but this is just smoke screen.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/three-former-military-members-launch-suit-alleging-systemic-racism-in-forces-1.3215528

 
If am hearing you right....stories like this should not be brought to light, but instead be covered up because it doesn't happen here in Canada, and it's only a US, European issue? As much as we will all like to bury our heads in the sand and this we all get along, unfortunately there is a lot of xenophobia and racism here in Canada and most of the time it's carried out by products (kids) of immigrants from way back.

People forget that their parents/grandparents emigrated here from somewhere in the first place.

Thucydides said:
I wonder if anyone is investigating the media for "Systemic" stupidity for flogging these stories?
 
After years of status quo....Toronto joined the ranks of other cities that have a minority as their chief. Vancouver had a Chinese guy as the chief for a while and am sure other cities do as well.

OP...a minority CDS at time soon? Probably won't happen in our lifetime. As you alluded to, nobody is dumb enough these days to go up to someone and show their racist inclination, but the system can be used to hold back minorities from getting ahead in the CAF. I mean what is the number of visible minorities past the rank of MWO or LCol in all the CAF elements?


recceguy said:
I don‘t go around with my eyes closed, but personally I have‘nt seen it in a long, long time. If you have proof it‘s happening, act like a soldier, step to the line and report it, don‘t complain about it. If your going to try stir that pot here, you‘ll need a bigger stick!
 
beachdown said:
OP...a minority CDS at time soon? Probably won't happen in our lifetime. As you alluded to, nobody is dumb enough these days to go up to someone and show their racist inclination, but the system can be used to hold back minorities from getting ahead in the CAF. I mean what is the number of visible minorities past the rank of MWO or LCol in all the CAF elements?

I'm a visible minority (hence the username - it's a clue to what ethnicity I am) and I don't go around thinking there are glass/bamboo ceilings for us in the military.  Sure, there may not be many CWOs or Flag Officers of visible minority, but perhaps that's because there are fewer visible minorities, and therefore fewer to promote/choose from for senior ranks?  Are you suggesting that we start promoting some to GOFO or CWO level purely on colour - obviously a rhetorical question.

And there has at least been one GOFO - Commodore (ret'd) Hans Jung, former Surgeon General.
 
beachdown said:
If am hearing you right....stories like this should not be brought to light, but instead be covered up because it doesn't happen here in Canada, and it's only a US, European issue? As much as we will all like to bury our heads in the sand and this we all get along, unfortunately there is a lot of xenophobia and racism here in Canada and most of the time it's carried out by products (kids) of immigrants from way back.

People forget that their parents/grandparents emigrated here from somewhere in the first place.

What exactly is your agenda? 

Are you a minority who happens to think that ALL WHITES are racists?  If so, that makes you an even bigger RACIST.  Whites do not have a monopoly on racism.  Many minorities are far more racist.

Are you an "Apologist" who thinks that we have to apologize for all the transgressions made by our forefathers five centuries ago?

What exactly is your agenda?
 
....Would you say the same to Jews that went through the holocaust? There is no agenda, I'm just looking at the discussion from transparent angle as oppose to a covert angle. Nobody said "all Whites are racist", this is something you are purporting on here

George Wallace said:
What exactly is your agenda? 

Are you a minority who happens to think that ALL WHITES are racists?  If so, that makes you an even bigger RACIST.  Whites do not have a monopoly on racism.  Many minorities are far more racist.

Are you an "Apologist" who thinks that we have to apologize for all the transgressions made by our forefathers five centuries ago?

What exactly is your agenda?
 
Dimsum said:
Sure, there may not be many CWOs or Flag Officers of visible minority, but perhaps that's because there are fewer visible minorities, and therefore fewer to promote/choose from for senior ranks? 

In other words, they're in the minority?  ;D
 
beachdown said:
In the link below...1 mbr is aboriginal and the other 2 are Black. Just because a survey was carried out and some people responded, it doesn't mean there isn't systematic racism in the CAF. It's always going to be able to prove when the racism is subliminal i.e. a Caucasian supervisor dealing with a number of minorities.
Correct, and it just as equally  doesn't mean there is.  That's the point of those who've bothered trying to respond to you, despite you being 'stuck on send'; probably Caucasian supervisors taking a break from burning crosses on their lawns and pining away for their minority-free small towns.  ::)

beachdown said:
There is no agenda, I'm just looking at the discussion from transparent angle as oppose to a covert angle.
:stars:  WTF does that even mean?

beachdown said:
Nobody said "all Whites are racist", this is something you are purporting on here
...well except for those Caucasian supervisors, with minority troops.
 
beachdown said:
Toronto joined the ranks of other cities that have a minority as their chief. Vancouver had a Chinese guy as the chief for a while and am sure other cities do as well.

Are you comparing Canadian police diversity stats to CAF?

Jul 14, 2016
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/police-diversity-canada-1.3677952
 
beachdown said:
....Would you say the same to Jews that went through the holocaust?
Are you suggesting whatever situation you went through is on par with Jews surviving the holocaust?
There is no agenda
There clearly is even if it's not malicious.
Nobody said "all Whites are racist", this is something you are purporting on here
You've obviously never read any of the narrative from Black Lives Matter or left-wing politics.

[quote author=Journeyman]
:stars:  WTF does that even mean?

[/quote]

Stacking up on the corner of a glass building?
 
beachdown said:
There is no agenda, I'm just looking at the discussion from transparent angle as oppose to a covert angle. Nobody said "all Whites are racist", this is something you are purporting on here

From your rant about visible minorities not being able to progress (and the "how many past MWO/LCol are of visible minority") post, I'd say there's a pretty clear agenda. 
 
beachdown said:
OP...a minority CDS at time soon? Probably won't happen in our lifetime. . . . . .

Well, since it's been (just about) 15 years since the OP made the comment to which you are now replying and that poster has been gone so long from these means that his info has now been erased from view, perhaps his "lifetime" has now passed.  Is there some specific reason you reached back that far to add comment?

Just to be facetious, didn't we already have a "minority" CDS - Gen Hillier.  As much as we of the Newf persuasion are hailed as good fellows and having the reputation of making good soldiers, there was (and perhaps still is) a lingering impression that we weren't as smart or as well suited for high rank as those Anglophones from regions with less identifiable accents.
 
Blackadder1916 said:
Well, since it's been (just about) 15 years since the OP made the comment to which you are now replying and that poster has been gone so long from these means that his info has now been erased from view, perhaps his "lifetime" has now passed.  Is there some specific reason you reached back that far to add comment?

Yeah - it's called "reaching".
 
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