31 May 2024: Terror attack in Germany
- Thread starter KevinB
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OldSolduer
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I am not surprised. When you let the foxes into the hen house...
OldSolduer
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Any Fighting Age Male - 16-55 should be refused entry. They should be back home fighting for their cause.
OldSolduer
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KevinB
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KevinB
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Shit show. LE appeared to try to break up the fight - two unarmed civilians had jumped on the attacker to try to subdue him, and two LE subdued them, while one officer covered the knife welding attacker, one of those was stabbed.
The cover officer waited a tad too long to shoot the attacker.
Tough to say that with confidence. Because of the camera angle we don’t know what he had for a backdrop, save that it was probably messy. The threat was moving, and sometimes superimposed over a friendly. Shit circumstance… I think the police officer did as best as he could with it.
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As suggested, moved all the "move from Canada to USA" stuff here
army.ca
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Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????
With the return of Parliament and no formal LPC-NDP agreement being made public, I suppose we shall see how long this government lasts.
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Eaglelord17
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Chaotic situation, likely got confused as to who the knife wielding aggressor was unfortunately, giving him a chance to stab some more.
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Agree. TBH, he shot pretty darn quickly after the actual assailant moved a few cm away from the cop/Good Samaritan misdirect.
KevinB
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He could have closed the distance and contact shot him…
I will admit I do say that with the glorious ability of hindsight.
TacticalTea
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Germans are asleep at the wheel.
And they still arrested blue shirt guy after shooting the terrorist, mind you.
And your experience as a police officer intervening in very sudden and violent situations is what, exactly?
Edit: sorry, I should elaborate. In real life, without the benefit of a still photo frame and prior knowledge of what’s going on, real assaults and stabbings can erupt VERY quickly, and it may not be immediately apparent what is going on or even that there’s a weapon involved. If you suddenly hear some sort of chaos, turn, and see someone on top of and pummeling the other, it’s reasonable and normal to pull the apparent aggressor off and to try to restrain them. And usually you’re correct. Sometimes once you have more time to breathe and assess the now-controlled situation, more of a narrative emerges that paints a clearer picture of who was the initial aggressor. But that often cannot be discerned immediately. Everyone gets grabbed and controlled and then you figure things out.
TacticalTea
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My experience as a military officer and just a situationally aware man says fights usually involve two parties and when you don't know what's going on, your priority is to worry about assessing, disarming and separating, not arresting.
This officer assumed the blue shirt guy was the only threat and paid no attention to the actual terrorist.
It also says that when someone has just heroically interrupted a terrorist attack and you've almost gotten yourself killed by misidentifying him as the attacker, you apologize and thank him, you don't arrest him.
I've seen many cases of American LEOs doing just that, there's no reason the Germans can't do the same other than ideological blinders (aversion to self-defense, excessive emphasis on imagined threats (white supremacy) versus actual threats (radical islam))
If the officer had been alone to do everything, understandable. But there were multiple officers on scene.
It took you far longer to write that reply than any of these officers had for the whole thing to take place. They had to make decisions instantly. He was not the only officer on scene; it’s typical that you get an apparent aggressor under control knowing that others have your back. Frankly when you’re in a one on one ground fight you don’t have much ability to do anything else.
“Disarming and separating” is exactly what that still photo shows- it’s the initial first few seconds physical intervention. The higher the threat, the lower the subject; if you see someone apparently attacking someone else, almost invariably you’re going to ground them.
Obviously in the few seconds immediately following this it became apparent that the situation was not as was initially perceived. That’s also understandable and normal.
I’m sure that once facts were ascertained the police showed due gratitude to the civilian(s) who intervened and will likely recognize them formally in the fullness of time.
I’ve handled more than a few scraps-in-progress, including stabbings, and it unfolds very quickly and without the luxury of much of a set of facts save for what you can immediately see and hear. The best way to reduce the threat in the greatest number of instances when you see one person on top of another is to secure and ground whoever appears to be the aggressor- usually the one on top. That’s not flawless, but as a heuristic for your initial actions it usually works.
TacticalTea
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I think it's a bit too facile to say "hindsight 2020" and abandon all esprit critique.
On the contrary, one can learn from others' mistakes. What that officer did almost got him killed.
You won't see me doing that (focus all attention on one party).
I had the same reaction earlier today when I saw a video of a Frenchman restraining a troublemaker in public transit. In that case, the Frenchman suffered no blowback, but he easily could've, had the troublemaker had accomplices.
It’s difficult to simultaneously pull someone off someone else and ground them, and simultaneously spare any focus for anything other than the immediate fight.
Were police officers afforded the time and support to train to truly expert levels in martial arts tailored for our roles that might be another thing, but if there is anywhere able to do that, it’s very rare.
The most you can expect in most cases is for an officer to move to and try to stop an evident threat.
And again, recognize that if you have other officers on scene, it’s more understandable to focus yourself entirely on an apparent aggressor and to trust your colleagues to have your back.
Nothing is clean or pretty in a real fight, and you’ve gotta do the best with what you have. The vast majority of times, his actions would have been very correct.
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