2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Lumber]

Next election I'm hoping for either a majority CPC, or a majority LPC win with Trudeau still at the helm. Either way I think we will then get down to business:

1. CPC hopefully to right this sinking ship; or
2. LPC to drive this sucker to the bottom faster so that events force a self correct.

This is a terrible thing to wish for. If you really think the LPC is as bad as you say it is, you shouldn't rather have them at the helm (with a majority to boot) over a CPC minority.

If history has shown us anything, it's that no matter how bad the LPC does, they always come back eventually. So, let's keep them away as often and as for as long as possible.

 

[Remius]

At this rate no party is going to get a majority.

 

[Edward Campbell]

At this rate no party is going to get a majority.

That's how I read what (limited) data I have seen. But, it is possible that the LPC and NDP will get 170+ seats and if they continue the current Confidence and Supply Arrangement then there will be a de facto LPC majority. My guess is: BQ 35±; CPC 135±; LPC: 130±; NDP: 30±; Others: 10± - in other words no possible majority at all, by anyone.

 

[brihard]

At this rate no party is going to get a majority.

Or deserve one.

 

[ArmyRick]

Instead of just pumping up PP (I have made my views quite clear here, in my opinion he is the best choice, not the perfect choice)

NDP, Want a huge seat count and to become third party again or after next election maybe be the opposition again? Ditch Jagmeet Singh. Hands down. He is totally sinking the party. Many hard leaning left are looking for a viable option.

LPC, want to be the biggest threat possible to PP? Ditch Trudeau and elect a new leader for the party (won't happen, they are almost locked in a cult like theme). Trudeau and his piss poor decision making and inability to change course on policies when its clear they are not working have become major liabilities to the party.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Instead of just pumping up PP (I have made my views quite clear here, in my opinion he is the best choice, not the perfect choice)

I cannot stand the man, but as things sit, this is an accurate statement given the other options.

NDP, Want a huge seat count and to become third party again or after next election maybe be the opposition again? Ditch Jagmeet Singh. Hands down. He is totally sinking the party. Many hard leaning left are looking for a viable option.

This. A lot of NDP supporters I speak to are fuming about the Support and Confidence Agreement still being a thing, given the Beijing scandal and Singh refusing to pull support when no public inquiry was called.

I know why, the NDP is not ready for another election financially. That said, you're not doing yourselves any favours by bleeding supporters and funding propping up Jaghmeet.

Have a Leadership Review and bring in someone that doesn't have "lapdog" as their public image.

LPC, want to be the biggest threat possible to PP? Ditch Trudeau and elect a new leader for the party (won't happen, they are almost locked in a cult like theme). Trudeau and his piss poor decision making and inability to change course on policies when its clear they are not working have become major liabilities to the party.

Also this. I float between CPC and LPC based on rationality and a balanced approach to governance. As it stands, I see none of those traits in an LPC government led by Trudeau the Younger.

Honestly, if the LPC wants to maintain governing status, Trudeau is a tumor they need to cut out. I would honestly love to see Freeland or Anand's potential as leaders be unlocked when the Court Jester stands aside.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I cannot stand the man, but as things sit, this is an accurate statement given the other options.

This. A lot of NDP supporters I speak to are fuming about the Support and Confidence Agreement still being a thing, given the Beijing scandal and Singh refusing to pull support when non-public enquiry was called.

I know why, the NDP is not ready for another election financially. That said, you're not doing yourselves any favours by bleeding supporters and funding propping up Jaghmeet.

Have a Leadership Review and bring in someone that doesn't have "lapdog" as their public image.

No debate on anything above.

Also this. I float between CPC and LPC based on rationality and a balanced approach to governance. As it stands, I see none of those traits in an LPC government lead by Trudeau the Younger.

Honestly, if the LPC wants to maintain governing status, Trudeau is a tumor they need to cut out. I would honestly love to see Freeland or Anand's potential as leaders be unlocked when the Court Jester stands aside.

Do we really expect the current iteration of the LPC to behave any differently with Freeland or Anand at the helm ?

I get it, JT isn't the whole party. But the party also isn't in revolt and seems, from the outside, to be happy to follow his lead. And that's not what I would expect from a party that recognizes the "tumor" that he has become.

Don't forget I voted for the JT leader LPC in their defeat of Harper. Since then they seem to be hell bent to make sure I never vote LPC again. So biases fully admitted.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Do we really expect the current iteration of the LPC to behave any differently with Freeland or Anand at the helm ?

I get it, JT isn't the whole party. But the party also isn't in revolt and seems, from the outside, to be happy to follow his lead. And that's not what I would expect from a party that recognizes the "tumor" that he has become.

Don't forget I voted for the JT leader LPC in their defeat of Harper. Since then they seem to be hell bent to make sure I never vote LPC again. So biases fully admitted.

You make valid points, however, I would also point out that the current government, not the LPC, rules with an iron fist from the PMO.

Even if there was a caucus revolt, I doubt many would see the light of day in subsequent elections, lest Cabinet appointments. Grudges are a common theme within the LPC and its well known.

My guess is that most in the Cabinet are aware Trudeau's days are numbered as leader, but figure it's best to keep the knives in their sheaths for future use in a leadership campaign.

 

[Good2Golf]

I get it, JT isn't the whole party. But the party also isn't in revolt and seems, from the outside, to be happy to follow his lead. And that's not what I would expect from a party that recognizes the "tumor" that he has become.

The quandary.

If there were clear, meaningful and trustworthy indicators than an Anand or Freeland was leading a renewal, I wouldn’t necessarily *say no right away…but…

The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Quirky]

I could care less about the personality of leader and how 'annoying' they are if the party policy makes sense. Right now, the LPC fails on all accounts and I agree with nothing that's in their platform. CPC cutting carbon tax would immediately help all Canadians, however some are still brainwashed into thinking paying more tax will prevent hurricanes and forest fires.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I could care less about the personality of leader and how 'annoying' they are if the party policy makes sense. Right now, the LPC fails on all accounts and I agree with nothing that's in their platform.

Voters unfortunately don't read policies or platforms; they read personalities. That's why Scheer, O'Toole, Mulcair, Ignatieff et al are now nobodies politically; while the travelling circus that is Trudeau, Singh, and PP hold the reins.

CPC cutting carbon tax would immediately help all Canadians, however some are still brainwashed into thinking paying more tax will prevent hurricanes and forest fires.

In agreement here. That said, most of the "platform" we see from the CPC is a list of what they "won't do" vice what they "would do" if they formed government. That is part of why they're not grabbing votes that should be ripe for the picking.

 

[Quirky]

In agreement here. That said, most of the "platform" we see from the CPC is a list of what they "won't do" vice what they "would do" if they formed government. That is part of why they're not grabbing votes that should be ripe for the picking.

If the LPC are destroying everything they touch, then doing literally anything else, or the opposite, would be the right choice.

 

[Eaglelord17]

If the LPC are destroying everything they touch, then doing literally anything else, or the opposite, would be the right choice.

Personally I despise the Liberal party, but a lack of a Conservative platform is a gripe I have with them.

I know why they don’t put one out, it is because then they can be attacked on it, but the ambiguity that comes with no commitment is worse than committing to something.

This is also why the Liberals, NDP, etc. are able to make cheap shots on the Conservatives like ‘they are going to ban abortion’. Commit to a party stance, otherwise the other parties will rip them to shreds for waffling. That waffling also causes those on the fence to question if they can trust the party. Even Harper said the Conservatives weren’t going after abortion and that ended that debate back then.

Look at what happened with Bud Light. The real problem for them was that they waffled on who they supported. Both sides feel they are disingenuous and neither support them now. Pick a platform and stick with it, for better or for worse.

 

[shiska]

the ambiguity that comes with no commitment is worse than committing to something.

Big agree on this point. Give me a reason to vote for you!! "I'm not the other guy" doesn't cut it.

 

[Quirky]

This is also why the Liberals, NDP, etc. are able to make cheap shots on the Conservatives like ‘they are going to ban abortion’.

If the LPC campaigned on a strictly communist-style platform, and the Cons banned abortion, Canadians would still vote LPC because they are okay living under a dictatorship as long as they have access to abortions.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

If the LPC campaigned on a strictly communist-style platform, and the Cons banned abortion, Canadians would still vote LPC because they are okay living under a dictatorship as long as they have access to abortions.

Perhaps someone should tell this to the CPC so they can lay out their platform accordingly.

The moral pearl clutching section of voters is a lot smaller up here than in the Bible Belt down south.

If they stuck to "peace, order, and good governance" while improving our financial standing and position in foreign affairs, you'd have votes from Canadians of every walk of life.

As it stands, I know a lot of people with uteruses and even those under the Rainbow Umbrella who hate the "tax and spend" agenda of the LPC, but refuse to vote CPC because their social policies are prejudicial to their own existence.

 

[Good2Golf]

If the LPC campaigned on a strictly communist-style platform, and the Cons banned abortion, Canadians would still vote LPC because they are okay living under a dictatorship as long as they have access to abortions.

So one would think the CPC would put a firm lid on it and move on with an identifiable plan that resonates with those whom the party is trying to woo.

This will likely go down in Canadian politics as one of the greatest examples of snatching defeat out of the potential jaws of victory.

 

[Quirky]

If they stuck to "peace, order, and good governance" while improving our financial standing and position in foreign affairs, you'd have votes from Canadians of every walk of life.

I wouldn't give Canadians that much credit to look into the different policies of the CPC and LPC. The last voter turnout is pretty indicative of how much canadians care. Canadians voted for higher taxes, higher cost of living and more crime.

As it stands, I know a lot of people with uteruses and even those under the Rainbow Umbrella who hate the "tax and spend" agenda of the LPC, but refuse to vote CPC because their social policies are prejudicial to their own existence.

You get what you vote for.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

You get what you vote for.

You also get what you campaign on. That is indicative of why the CPC is still nowhere near majority territory, in spite of the many volumous fuck ups the LPC have subjected us to after almost 8 years.

 

[Eaglelord17]

If the LPC campaigned on a strictly communist-style platform, and the Cons banned abortion, Canadians would still vote LPC because they are okay living under a dictatorship as long as they have access to abortions.

Again the point isn’t about abortions, it is about picking a stance and making a platform.

What is the Conservatives environmental policy? What is their tax policy? What is their military policy? What is their social policies? What is their policies towards the public service? What is their policy on firearms?

The answer is they don’t have one, or at least one they are willing to share. Just saying its different isn’t good enough for many, especially those on the fence.

Again I don’t support the Liberals or NDP, but it does make me mad that the Conservatives can’t release a platform.