South Alberta Light Horse Regiment to amalgamate with larger reserve force

[dapaterson]

Five years is too long, in my opinion. The time demands are significant; the current Army model assumes about 100+ paid days annually, or the equivalent of five months full time. On top of a full time job, and any semblance of a family life that might remain.

 

[Kilted]

Maybe drop the 3 year cycle part of being CO for the Reserves. Most civilian employers have higher up bosses (superintendents etc.) sign 5 year contracts minimum, and many stay on longer.

3 years might make sense for the Regs which is constantly needing to generate higher level leadership as well as give command experience to those officers. Being a CO is basically the peak for most Reserve officers, do we really need to intentionally inflict this 3 year burden on ourselves?

Getting rid of that would mean more time to generate competent officers as it isn’t just forcing someone through for the sake of forcing them through as well as giving more experience across the board as now there would be more time developing skills at lower ranks/positions.

My unit has had multiple CO's and RSM's that have done 4-5 years at their position, some of whom then transferred to another unit to fill the same position for another term.

 

[PrairieFella]

If there's somewhere I agree on consolidation it's at the bde level. Realistically there should be one reserve CBG per Div. I'm in wholeheartedly on that.

 

[ArmyRick]

I served in two P Res regiments and I think amalgamation is WAY past due.

People saying we can still fix, get the numbers up, we will need those HQ... Please STOP. Its been at least 30 years of playing sacred cows can not be touched.

Their is no political will of the politicians
Their is very little political will of the CAF GOFO

An Example of how I see the re-structure
33 Canadian Infantry Battalion
-HQ (London)
-A (RCR) Coy (London/Startford)
-B (Foresters) Coy (Owen Sound/Barrie)
-C (E & K Scot) Coy (Windsor/Chatham)
-D (RHFoC) (Wherever the hell they are from)

It would be a common CO, DCO, RSM (ideally Reg or Class B), BOR, RQMS, Etc

 

[Kilted]

The major issue with amalgamating units is the long-term loss of capability and line serials. World War II came around and almost every regiment was able to recruit, train, and put a battalion overseas with a 2nd Battalion at home. That is the purpose of having under-strength reserve units. If you take two reserve units with authorized strengths of 300 each and put them together for 600, that is all well and good in the short term, but the next government comes around and decides that they only need 400 and so forth. If you look at our history, the number of units has been gradually shrinking, which hasn't necessarily led to larger units. Sure we could amalgamate all of the reserve infantry units into x number of battalions, I'll use 12 because someone already said that, what happens 15 years from now when those units are the same size as current units, but we are now short thousands of people again?

I think one point that is being forgotten is the large geographical dispersal of some of the units. Combining HQ's in larger cities might be easier,but when you get to the point that the CO decides that everyone will be in one geographical location on a particular parade night and you get some people driving 2-3 hours each way for a 3-hour parade night. I know that there are some units that already have issues like that. I also know people who have moved far away and still come back for parade nights because the unit they would have transferred into doesn't treat them very well.

 

[dapaterson]

My unit has had multiple CO's and RSM's that have done 4-5 years at their position, some of whom then transferred to another unit to fill the same position for another term.

So successive institutional failure, then.

 

[markppcli]

If there's somewhere I agree on consolidation it's at the bde level. Realistically there should be one reserve CBG per Div. I'm in wholeheartedly on that.

Right so then if we follow that line of thinking how many COs can a Bde Comd realistically manage ?

The major issue with amalgamating units is the long-term loss of capability and line serials. World War II came around and almost every regiment was able to recruit, train, and put a battalion overseas with a 2nd Battalion at home. That is the purpose of having under-strength reserve units.

This would be true if we had any kind of mobilization plan. We do not. We similarly do not have the capacity at these under strength unit to equip, and most importantly train this influx of people. That we managed to do it in WW1 and 2 is irrelevant, WW2 we managed to have 3 full years of training before full combat options (the tragedy of Hong Kong aside). WW1 we managed to leverage the mass of Militia regiments which were as much service and drinking clubs as they were military formations.

If you take two reserve units with authorized strengths of 300 each and put them together for 600, that is all well and good in the short term, but the next government comes around and decides that they only need 400 and so forth. If you look at our history, the number of units has been gradually shrinking, which hasn't necessarily led to larger units. Sure we could amalgamate all of the reserve infantry units into x number of battalions, I'll use 12 because someone already said that, what happens 15 years from now when those units are the same size as current units, but we are now short thousands of people again?

The good thing about numbered Bns is it’s very easy to raise new ones. Infact it’s also easy to make new companies. We did that in the RMRang with PG. The army reserve has historically always been in a state of flux in its organization, just look at the SALH for an example. It is only in the last 50 years that the titles and cap badges have become sacred cows.

I think one point that is being forgotten is the large geographical dispersal of some of the units. Combining HQ's in larger cities might be easier,but when you get to the point that the CO decides that everyone will be in one geographical location on a particular parade night and you get some people driving 2-3 hours each way for a 3-hour parade night. I know that there are some units that already have issues like that. I also know people who have moved far away and still come back for parade nights because the unit they would have transferred into doesn't treat them very well.

And yet the Ranger operate dispersed platoons and companies? We have companies 800 km from their home regiments already in the reserves. I suppose we’ll have to trust that the average CO will make decisions that best suit their particular situations. Or allow a training model where reservists serve their parade nights in different means. Frankly this point seems to be “what if a bunch of ass holes are in charge?”


Ultimately the Army Reserve needs to be organized in a way that is fit to their operational purpose. I can’t see any argument that that is the case today.

 

[McG]

The major issue with amalgamating units is the long-term loss of capability and line serials.

What capability would be lost? What is a “line serial” and why is it sacred to you?

 

[RangerRay]

It’s great to hear of reserve units getting amalgamated. More please.

One minor quibble…would it not make more sense for the new unit, encompassing a large geographical area, to have a moniker to reflect that (e.g. King’s Own Alberta Light Horse) as opposed to a moniker for a specific place (King’s Own Calgary Regiment with squadron in Edmonton and Medicine Hat)?

Again, minor quibble.

 

[dapaterson]

Line serials are irrelevant. If the Army Res was held to the CAF policy on establishments, about 40% would be eliminated.

 

[Harris]

My unit has had multiple CO's and RSM's that have done 4-5 years at their position, some of whom then transferred to another unit to fill the same position for another term.

I did 10 years straight as a CO for three orgs. 5yrs , 2yrs , and 3yrs. The pace sucked. And since I was also from time to time on short term Class Bs, that time was free to the Army. I even had to fight to get compensated for a 1 hr drive each way for the 5 year stint as Class B aren't entitled to LTA.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Do we fix anything if we drop our preference for COs to be LCol? Establish the ARes unit as a single company under command of a major with a smaller breadth of responsibility. Instead of a CWO there is one MWO.

Units still need to generate someone able to be a CO, but they don’t need to generate someone ready to be a LCol.

Shortens the time and flattens the pyramid ("3 majors to find one good LCol, 3 captains to find one good major..."), so fewer people are need to sustain it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Getting rid of that would mean more time to generate competent officers as it isn’t just forcing someone through for the sake of forcing them through as well as giving more experience across the board as now there would be more time developing skills at lower ranks/positions.

I'd go further and limit CO and RSM appointments (Res F) to people who have not yet turned 40 on the date their appointment begins. 20 years is plenty of time to accumulate the experience necessary for those positions in a Res F unit. Younger people tolerate stress better, and obviously 100+ Class A days per year is stressful for almost anyone who has not much life except the Res F. It would tend to reduce the number of people hanging on and not being productive, unless they are good followers who will undertake any necessary and useful task to serve.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

It’s great to hear of reserve units getting amalgamated. More please.

One minor quibble…would it not make more sense for the new unit, encompassing a large geographical area, to have a moniker to reflect that (e.g. King’s Own Alberta Light Horse) as opposed to a moniker for a specific place (King’s Own Calgary Regiment with squadron in Edmonton and Medicine Hat)?

Again, minor quibble.

Take the Royal Regiment of Scotland approach:

E (Reserve) Sqn LdSH (RC) - Edmonton
F (King's Own) Sqn LdSH (RC) - Calgary
G (Light Horse) Sqn LdSH (RC) - Medicine Hat

Have them administered by the larger Reg Force Regiment within the Division and tactically grouped within a Res CBG. Do this with all Reserve units across Canada. Reduces overhead and unnecessary command team rotation. Forces can also be detached down to the Tp/Pl level in smaller geographic areas without doubling overhead.

 

[markppcli]

Take the Royal Regiment of Scotland approach:

E (Reserve) Sqn LdSH (RC) - Edmonton
F (King's Own) Sqn LdSH (RC) - Calgary
G (Light Horse) Sqn LdSH (RC) - Medicine Hat

Have them administered by the larger Reg Force Regiment within the Division and tactically grouped within a Res CBG. Do this with all Reserve units across Canada. Reduces overhead and unnecessary command team rotation. Forces can also be detached down to the Tp/Pl level in smaller geographic areas without doubling overhead.

Yup, the London Regiment does the exact same thing.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I'd go further and limit CO and RSM appointments (Res F) to people who have not yet turned 40 on the date their appointment begins. 20 years is plenty of time to accumulate the experience necessary for those positions in a Res F unit. Younger people tolerate stress better, and obviously 100+ Class A days per year is stressful for almost anyone who has not much life except the Res F. It would tend to reduce the number of people hanging on and not being productive, unless they are good followers who will undertake any necessary and useful task to serve.

Why do you assume someone who is 40 would have 20 years experience? Many of the people joining the CAF at the moment are later in life, not the 16-20 yr old recruits of yesteryear.

Usually the older COs can handle it better than younger ones simply because they aren’t dealing with younger people stress/issues (i.e. young children, etc.). Generally someone who is 50 has a much more stable career, older/flown the coup children, and have the time to dedicate to something like the Reserves.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Any argument that "we did it in WW 1 and 2" are rendered null and void by the fact that we would never send our men and women into meat grinder situations just to test their mettle.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Why do you assume someone who is 40 would have 20 years experience? Many of the people joining the CAF at the moment are later in life, not the 16-20 yr old recruits of yesteryear.

Usually the older COs can handle it better than younger ones simply because they aren’t dealing with younger people stress/issues (i.e. young children, etc.). Generally someone who is 50 has a much more stable career, older/flown the coup children, and have the time to dedicate to something like the Reserves.

The other issue is succession management...

...many times there are not alot of choices when it comes to who will step into the CO's or RSM's place next so it's not like there's a competitive process or anything. Ever.

Want to be CO or RSM? Complete all your courses and just don't quit

 

[Aper]

Any argument that "we did it in WW 1 and 2" are rendered null and void by the fact that we would never send our men and women into meat grinder situations just to test their mettle.

I'll add to this that the budget and interest of joining wasn't the same either.

 

[markppcli]

Why do you assume someone who is 40 would have 20 years experience? Many of the people joining the CAF at the moment are later in life, not the 16-20 yr old recruits of yesteryear.

Usually the older COs can handle it better than younger ones simply because they aren’t dealing with younger people stress/issues (i.e. young children, etc.). Generally someone who is 50 has a much more stable career, older/flown the coup children, and have the time to dedicate to something like the Reserves.

Is that really true? I’d say my average private is 19-21. Not a huge change. Seems like I see more, often younger, RMC grads vs DEOs as well. 50 would be a very old Lt Col.