Wounded warrior: "Ottawa dropped ball on benefits"

[old medic]

The Canadian Press
08 March 2011
copy at : http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110308/calgary-wounded-vet-110308/

CALGARY — A Canadian soldier who lost both legs in Afghanistan says the financial treatment of injured and wounded war veterans by the Harper government is an "abject betrayal" of the new generation of soldiers.

Maj. Mark Campbell, who stepped on a bomb in June 2008, said the new Veteran's Charter established in 2007 robs wounded soldiers of about 40 per cent of their income.

Campbell says the new system of lump-sum payments and income replacement pales in comparison to the post-Second World War practice of granting lifetime pensions.

He said the changes are akin to putting a couple of patches on a leaky bicycle tire, adding the $250,000 he received wouldn't be enough to pay for one day in his shoes.

Campbell said the Harper government should immediately revert back to the old pension arrangement and forget about attempting to fix the new legislation.

He said Canadians should be "outraged" at how poorly the government is treating its wounded veterans.

 

[The Bread Guy]

More details from Postmedia News:

Maj. Mark Campbell is missing both his legs but drove to Calgary from Edmonton to support his friend, documentary filmmaker Garth Pritchard, whose work is on display at the Military Museums in the new exhibit Afghanistan: A Glimpse of War.

He lost his legs in an ambush attack in Afghanistan in June 2008; Campbell uses a specially designed van with hand controls to get around.

He's also built a new barrier-free house so he can remain mobile at home.

Those expenses alone ate up the entire $250,000 lump sum payment he received from the military.

"For every guy who dies, there's 11 or 12 like me that you never hear about," said Campbell 46, a 25-year veteran of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. "In my case, nobody died, but there were five wounded Canadians, you never heard about it. All you hear about are the guys who get killed, which is fine, I don't want to take anything away from the guys who make the ultimate sacrifice. But I got to live the rest of my life like this. I'd have been better off dead, maybe. My kids don't think so, but I don't know."

Campbell said his fighting didn't end on the battlefield as he struggled to get his benefits and payments from the government.

He said the changes to the Veterans Charter recently proposed by Veterans Affairs Minister JeanPierre Blackburn barely constitute a Band-Aid on the problem of taking care of soldiers with long-term disabilities.

"Veterans Affairs has really screwed the pooch with the new Veterans Charter," said Campbell.

"They have screwed us, they've screwed me, they've screwed the new generation of combat wounded veterans, disabled veterans.

"They put two or three patches on what is actually a very rotten and leaky tire." ....

 

[Dragone]

Major Campbell's Sacrafice's and Service are great and Patriotic that is with-out question.
Majot Campbell receives under 2006 ledgislation a Major's Salary est' $8200 :  75%  $6200 + permanent impairment allowances for life a total $7500 before taxes. an anual $ 85000
Private missing both legs attributed to Service an anual $40000

Prior to 2006 He would have received an uquestioned 100% Disabled Pension of $3000 100% pension = with 1 spouse and 3 children.
+ prior to 2006 we would need to calculate the SISIP LTD insuarce of 75% of Major salary the $ using the SISIP LTD calculation the 6200 less the 3000 he received from VAC a approximate $3200 from sisip.
prior to 2006 system he would receive a total of approx $6200 Both VAC and SISIP included. less 250000 tax free lump sum.
I believe a major misconception is that the Lump Sum Award is to replace the "Lifetime Monthly Pension".
The lump Sum award was to compensate for Canadas lack of keeping up with its allies in the international comunities paying these lump sum awards  to their Wounded and injured Service members.
It si the EL that was created and it served a two fold purpose; 1, to help manage the SISIP Clawback so that the Clawback issue was completly internal and did not included a private insuance company deducating insuance paymants, and; 2, to replace the Pesnion Acts Monthly Pensions as a souce of income for permenatly Disabled Service members.
SISIP is an indapendent insurace Company Contracted to Serve DND with Disablity Insuace policys at a Fixed rate and is not VAC and I do know that SISIP is still in opperation to this day and opperating under the same ledgisaltion.

The Differnce between the old System and the Post 2006 system is Major Campbell Receiving more of a lifetime Disablity Pension + lumpsum award.
it is clear and the true issue would be with a private with 1 spouse and 3 children who would be in the same position to have received 250000 for loosing both legs and to receive 75% of 3200 + the permanent impairment allowance.

I believe that the arrguments for the old  pension system to return are not sound nor rational, the old system was dated and wrote old disabled service members out of their Insuance s through ledgislation.
VAC is attempting to compensate for poor ledgiislation that was en-acted with private insuarnce companies. VAC is not trying to make SISIP dificult to find or access and you may access both, however, VAC is compensating for the OLD POORly Written Ledgislation the gave Private insurance companies the right to deducte insuance payments.
If any  thing, VAC is on the Veterans side.
the New Bill C-55 should pass with the New budget,  bureaucracies take time, and these changes with make the EL and permanent impairment allowance an Istitution for life for those un-able to earn a living income.
for to observe polotics may be just as arduous and comsuming as serving..
You will see that even if these new numbers are appealing it is only the older pensioners of the old system prior to 2006 who were pensioned in the 60's 70's and 80's who will see the greatest number changes to their monthly income from VAC.

I did not make this post to argue Major Campbells apeall to the Goverment in that Disabled Service Veterans need more, I only wished to point out the numbers and the differnce of prior to 2006 and post 2006...I realy dont htink he would beiffit more from a lesser amount of money from the Goverment for His pain and his suffering that are attributed to his Sacifice's made in Uniform.

 

[Strike]

Dragone,

I'm going to ask the question that everyone else here is thinking.

Who are you?

I find it interesting that you come on here and throw out a bunch of numbers arguing for the current system when historical posts to this site have shown that many forum members feel quite opposite.  I can't help but question your motives.

 

[McG]

?? ??

I will assume it is because you are working in a second or third language, but I don't understand that whole post.

Are you trying to say that the current system is as good as the old system and that the next system (currently still a bill in parlaiment) will be better than both?  You are going to have to prove this to me.  Feel free to use lots of math - that crosses language boundaries & I have a pretty sound understanding of how it works.

 

[Infanteer]

I watched the VAC travelling road show sponsored by the CMP last month; 4 years too late but informative nonetheless.  I now understand that the old system, which consisted of a pension and a few health services, has been replaced by a comprehensive new system with numerous benefits and payouts.

The old system was a simple "thanks, here you go" pension while the new system seems specifically aimed at getting an injured member back into the labour market.

That was my take on it - anyone have a different view?

A thing on the numbers - they are important from an optics standpoint as it would seem bad if the government made structural changes to save a few.  However, it is important to remember that no amount of money will replace a lost leg, an eye or the ability to hear.  With this in mind, it's important not to get fixated on numbers like "250,000", but rather to see how the money is provided and what it is intended for.

 

[dapaterson]

With this in mind, it's important not to get fixated on numbers like "250,000", but rather to see how the money is provided and what it is intended for.

Indeed, but we tend to fixate on numbers.  When CUA was reitred trhere were howls of outrage that the "haircut, dry-cleaning and boot polish" money was being taken away - despite the fact that it was never intended as such.

DND's internal comms are poor - top level decisions are poorly translated and communicated downwards, leading to confusion and mis-information.  Of course, communications within any group of 140K+ (Reg, Res and Civs) is a challenge.

 

[jollyjacktar]

A former shipmate of mine is being released medically as he hurt his back.  He is in constant pain, and will not really be able to work much again.  His settlement was $26K under the new system.  His comment to me was that he compared this sum with some of the old system pensions that he knows of for similar injuries.  His settlement covers about 6 years worth of pension for the others.  Right or wrong, I can see how one would perhaps get stuck on numbers.  He will be living with his back for more than 6 years. 

As far as I am concerned this whole scheme is merely a cost saving measure for DVA, full stop.  Nothing more.  The rest they trumpet reminds me of that new truth in advertising commercial where the girl gets caught by her Dad creeping out the bedroom window.  Enter stage left, some clowns to do fancy moves with music to try and dress up the BS.  It`s still BS.  Matter of fact, I trust Iggy and Taliban Jack more than the DVA....

 

[len173]

Campbell says the new system of lump-sum payments and income replacement pales in comparison to the post-Second World War practice of granting lifetime pensions.

I'm a bit confused by the article and some of the posts. The article appears to say that there is no pension whatsoever, it's simply a cash payout and a boot out the door. But 'Dragones' post indicates that there is a lifetime pension + a lump sum payout. This has never been touched on at work in any official capacity.

My question is, as a private with only 2 years in, if you lose both legs overseas, do you recieve a lump sum somewhere between $1 and $250 000 and then get medically released, full stop? OR do you recieve some type of pension for the rest of your life (or for a limited time) PLUS a lump sum?

 

[Infanteer]

His settlement was $26K under the new system.  His comment to me was that he compared this sum with some of the old system pensions that he knows of for similar injuries.  His settlement covers about 6 years worth of pension for the others.  Right or wrong, I can see how one would perhaps get stuck on numbers.  He will be living with his back for more than 6 years.

Is he only eligible for the Disability Award?  Is he eligible for any other benefits or awards?

My question is, as a private with only 2 years in, if you lose both legs overseas, do you recieve a lump sum somewhere between $1 and $250 000 and then get medically released, full stop? OR do you recieve some type of pension for the rest of your life (or for a limited time) PLUS a lump sum?

There is a host of benefits that an injured soldier may or may not be eligible for, which are listed here:

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/sub.cfm?source=services

I'm not defending VAC, nor am I fully convinced that the new system is better.  But I agree with Dapaterson that the governments comms sucks and that this argument has been permitted to slide into a simple comparison between the old disability pension vs. the new disability award.  There are other aspects to the new system an I'd be interested in seeing how they work for people.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I am also concerned why the spectrum of care did not kick in for Major Campbell.

His House, and Vehicle mods should have been covered by DND, as he is still serving, not by VAC.  I am curious as to why he even had to use his Payment from VAC to cover this.

Maybe there is more to this story than meets the eye.  Be interested to find out the details.

dileas

tess

 

[OldSolduer]

Speaking of Spectrum Of Care, a friend of my son who was WIA when my boy was KIA has Type 1 Diabetes, yet was given a hard time by Health Service over his choice of the instrument that all diabetics have to measure blood sugar. He was also jacked by a Sgt in HS over telling the pharmacist, politely, that the gadget would be covered by Spectrum of Care. Pharmacist didn't like being told that and had Sgt jack the soldier.
There's more to this.
Soldier reports to HS on a Friday afternoon, complaining he's feeling tired and a bit woozy. HS does a blood sugar test and its off the scale.  HS tells him, drive to the civvy ER 20 minutes away, because we are closing. Soldier phones his medtech buddy.....who was at the action where subj soldier was WIA. Medtech tells him to pull over and wait. Medtech takes soldier to ER, they cannot beleive this soldier is walking and talking due to extreme high blood sugar...and is immediately place in the hospital til his blood sugars are reduced.
Lets educate our people first, then educate everyone else.
So I told the soldier, who is a freind of mine, that my BP is normally pretty good but it can rise when I hear our OWN people treat our vets like crap. :rage:

 

[jollyjacktar]

Is he only eligible for the Disability Award?  Is he eligible for any other benefits or awards?

I honestly cannot say.  This is what he told me.  I got the impression, money wise, that the lump sum was all he was going to get.  We did not have a long time to chat and catch up, but he was not really pleased with whatever VAC were doing for/to him. 

But I do know several fellows who receive a pension as they are from the before time.  One guy screwed his knee and he gets about $300 -400/month.  Won't take long to match the other fellows lump sum by my math skills.  At least not a life time.

 

[Infanteer]

But I do know several fellows who receive a pension as they are from the before time.  One guy screwed his knee and he gets about $300 -400/month.  Won't take long to match the other fellows lump sum by my math skills.  At least not a life time.

True.  But the argument can be turned around.  Say a guy gets $50,000 for a bum knee - he says "50,000 is all my knee was worth?  I can't really work anymore and the Forces have cut me loose with this one-time payout!" but that can easily be "$400 a month is all my knee was worth?  I can't really work anymore and the forces have cut me loose with this small pension!"

Therein lies the rub of looking at it from a strictly numbers standpoint.  What is more important (at least to me - although I think others would agree) is how the military and VAC to look after guys in a holistic manner in terms of making them independant again, inside or outside of the Forces.  How they are doing at this and how the New Veterans Charter impacts this I don't have a firm understanding of, and I'd be interesting to see some comprehensive views from injured service personnel.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Yes, I agree.  There are those I am sure who carp that the $400/mo is not enough.  I could approach VAC for my ears but am not sure if I want to go through all the BS it appears to require.  I honestly don't know what all the benefits are, but frankly they don't seem to be worth the effort.  As I said earlier, I don't trust VAC and believe the department is populated by self serving (VAC wise) weasels.  And I do wonder if the RCL have sold us down the river as well.

 

[Strike]

I am also concerned why the spectrum of care did not kick in for Major Campbell.

His House, and Vehicle mods should have been covered by DND, as he is still serving, not by VAC.  I am curious as to why he even had to use his Payment from VAC to cover this.

Maybe there is more to this story than meets the eye.  Be interested to find out the details.

dileas

tess

Blame it on the bidding process that DND has to go through for anything over a certain price.

It used to be that, if you needed mods to your house (say, a ramp and lower counters for a spouse in a wheelchair) the base would hop-to and it would get done in short order.  Now you have to go through the tedious process of listing all requirements, putting it out to tender, listening to the bids, and choosing the right contractor.  I suspect that Maj Campbell got sick of the wait and used his VAC benefit instead.

 

[Dragone]

Dragone,

I'm going to ask the question that everyone else here is thinking.

Who are you?

I find it interesting that you come on here and throw out a bunch of numbers arguing for the current system when historical posts to this site have shown that many forum members feel quite opposite.  I can't help but question your motives.

simply in my Defence and Reasons for my initial post concerning Major Campbell's Concerns in the presses.
I do defend my position and I do believe that the new system is more proactive and productive towards the rehabilitaion of a Disabled Veteran . The New Veterans Charter compensates the Veterans Greater than the Old pre 2006 Pension act.
The new Veterans charter is specificly gear to get disabled and injured soldiers back into the Workforce earning a Self Reliant income that will not leave them relying on a borderline poverty life of Subsistance.
Those whos injuries are not sevre enough to incompasitate a disabled Veteran to the point of permanent unemployment will find that 50,000 lump sum + Vocational training and employment in a workplace is a better "kick out the Door" than $1000 a month subsitance and no Vocational training.
The real issue is of course men like Major Campbell who are eligible to receive the permenant impairment allowance. If you qualify to Receive the Permanet impairment allowance you wil also receive 75% of your pay grade while in uniform untill age 65, this in fact is who the New Veterans charter is geared to serve.
Men like Major Campbell will continue to Receive an annual compessory salary of close to 60,000 or more. And i am confident that Major Campbells injuries will not stop him from Seeking finacial gains.
Remeber that Sisip will still be available to pay for all the serivces and aids that VAC cannot cover.
The idea of the New Veterans Charter is to Get away from the "pougey" type of Subsitance that Disabled Veterans do not deserve to endure simply on the principle that the character of a man who wears the uniform of Canada is not a pouge. Their 1st concern should be with Maintaining self Resilliance and not how to find a niche to subsist upon.
Yes, ethics are apart of economics.
As an explaination of a quote i have said the New Veterans Charter awards a life time pension + lump sum, i would only be including this for disabled Veterans who can no longer find employment, VAC will continue to support Veterans who can not be employed.

To be blunt if this is an emotional forum please get your oath out a read it again..an oath is an oath and a land mine is a land mine.

 

[armyvern]

...

To be blunt if this is an emotional forum please get your oath out a read it again..an oath is an oath and a land mine is a land mine.

What does the above line have to do with answering the question you were asked? What is your stake in this? Do have any disclosures that you should be making? The troops here have a stake in this argument --- some of them have to live with and under "the new Veteran's Charter and it's upcoming amendment." I really get the impression that you may not be one of them, but are personally and/or professionally involved in the NVC in some other way. Of course, you do not have to answer, but then again we've offered up our own stake in this which you seem to say "too bad, you signed your oath; a landmine is a landmine" as you keep insisting on inundating us with numbers and "the official spin", but not the reality of the situation for those whom this applies.

I am quite sure Major Campbell (and everyone on this site who's undertaken) knows exactly what their oath is --- and what land-mines are. That does not negate the Federal Governments responsibility to ensure that those who've lived up to that oath, and who've stepped on those land-mines Sir are taken care of in a manner which affords them an acceptable Quality of Life and dignity for their remaining days. That's all they are asking for, but it is not what they are currently receiving.

Our Oathes and land-mines do not negate the Crown onus to live up to their end of the bargain --- and they changed the rules half way through --- obviously not with much (or any) input from those who have to live with the consequences of their rule-changes.

 

[armyvern]

True.  But the argument can be turned around.  Say a guy gets $50,000 for a bum knee - he says "50,000 is all my knee was worth?  I can't really work anymore and the Forces have cut me loose with this one-time payout!" but that can easily be "$400 a month is all my knee was worth?  I can't really work anymore and the forces have cut me loose with this small pension!"

My spin on the above spin?? Both are exactly right and neither is wrong.

That is why the Charter had to change; exactly because things like job re-training etc were sorely lacking. Problem is, they now pay for that re-training etc with the "left-over" monies they saved by cutting out the monthly pension when, in actuality BOTH are and were required. They fixed and paid for the lacking bit of the old system by taking away a required bit from the new system. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Those whos injuries are not sevre enough to incompasitate a disabled Veteran to the point of permanent unemployment will find that 50,000 lump sum + Vocational training and employment in a workplace is a better "kick out the Door" than $1000 a month subsitance and no Vocational training.

Do not presume to speak for me. I will decide what 'kick out the door' is best for my family and myself. Not you.

To be blunt if this is an emotional forum please get your oath out a read it again..an oath is an oath and a land mine is a land mine.

You are a sad, bitter, little person. I'll suggest you get yourself some help.