Why Did/Are You Joining the Armed Forces??

[c4th]

If I was looking to start a military career now, I'd be thinking long and hard before I signed on the dotted line with the current state of things.

And you joined in the good time that quickly went to shit in the 90's.  Was that 4 or 6 years of pay freezes?  Looks to me that the current state of things is allot better than it was 5 years ago. Worrying about situation CDS or cabinet is a sure fire way to be frustrated.  Effecting DND or National policy can be done by the odd lucky strategic cpl but deliberately aiming for that role will probably only land you in jail.

The Canadian public is only the consumer of national defense and fortunately, most of the Canadian economy has its foundation in the stupidity of the consumer.  GO! and paracowboy, you are not alone.  In my experience, the only people who don't think their customers are idiots are the unemployed. 

 

[Donut]

At 17 I wasn't really aware of, or worried about, issues like force protection, the moral compass of our leadership, political factors affecting our deployments overseas, rust-out of our fleets, foreign penetration of our intelligence apparatus, corruption in parliament, public apathy.  Come on, Chretien wasn't even 60 yet when I walked into CFRC.  :

I also didn't know our annual training plan would be the exact same things year after year after year, the majority of the patients I'd see who were really sick would be mental health issues, the massive discrepancies and infighting between reg and res existed.  I naively assumed that if you  REALLY needed a piece of equipment to do your job, the CF would provide it, that support and rehab would be there if I was injured, that DVA had the service members best interests at heart, that promotion and course loading was based on merit.

We (Canada) also still had a voice in international affairs, we were still a valued member of NORAD and NATO, we had the respect of our allies.  We had forces in the FRY, but Medak hadn't happened yet, we had a BG in Somalia that hadn't tarnished our professional reputation there.

The International Criminal Court didn't exist, meaning a CF member couldn't be tried by a foreign, civilian court for actions taken in a theater of operations.

We live in a very different environment, security-wise, then we did 13 years ago.  And the money wasn't even an issue, freeze or no freeze.

DF

 

[TCBF]

"In my experience, the only people who don't think their customers are idiots are the unemployed."- C4th

- You should stick your real name on that, and put it in the quotes.  It's pretty good.

Tom

 

[badger4]

There is an avenue for civvies into the JTF. Join the regs, for a few yrs (or the reserves for longer) and apply like everyone else. No country of note allows civvies to apply directly to military SF units. If one truly has "the goods" it should'nt be that big a deal.

"GO," I see what you are saying as I once believed that as well, but actualy a country of quite note, Australia, DOES allow civvies to apply directly to military SF units, as I was once a civvie myself.  However, I left canada to move to australia because of this very reason and am now a fully qualified operator in an australian SF unit and I love every minute of my work.  Check out this website bro,-- ausspecialforces.com, when it comes up, scroll down to Special Forces Direct recruiting Scheme (SFDRS) and click, have a read, i think that you shall find it interesting and also why every man and his dog is now showing up on the doorsteps of every recruiter in aus.

 

[paracowboy]

"GO," I see what you are saying as I once believed that as well, but actualy a country of quite note, Australia, DOES allow civvies to apply directly to military SF units, as I was once a civvie myself.   However, I left canada to move to australia because of this very reason and am now a fully qualified operator in an australian SF unit and I love every minute of my work.   Check out this website bro,-- ausspecialforces.com, when it comes up, scroll down to Special Forces Direct recruiting Scheme (SFDRS) and click, have a read, i think that you shall find it interesting and also why every man and his dog is now showing up on the doorsteps of every recruiter in aus.

further, the US has the 18X program, which is a pipleline straight from civvie-street to SF.

 

[JBP]

I've seen this sort of thing before, going straight from civvy to SF groups... I don't think it's great, but I suppose if they need people that quickly/bad it's a good idea. I think having someone do it the regular conventional forces way first is best. Then by the time they apply to any SF service they're already a soldier, already versed in the military and it's ways and you won't have as high a drop out rate during SF training and selection I would hope!

I can't back that up because I really don't know but it seems a logical train of thought to me...

In Canada, we really only have 1 elite SF group ofcourse, and there aren't many positions in it when you look at the broad scale of things. Say all over Canada, each year, 1000 applicants to JTF2... They just expanded it by like 500 people so I imagine that brings the force to about 1000 or so (again, don't know for sure, does anyone???). So say with turnover etc, each year there are 300 openings... THAT is quite competitive indeed... I bet more people apply than that too...

Canada simply needs to recruit better people, as you've all said. Aim it at the proper people, people who have a sense of adventure and like a rugged an painfully-honest atmosphere. Not the person who says, "Oh wow, what a job that'll be! I get that much money and the CF is that culturally diverse as well!!! Wow, I'll make more friends than ever and we can all watch the Care-Bears!!!"....  :

Well, it's fine if you join for money and friends only, but... I think we get the idea.

We need the young, strong adventurous type.

 

[c4th]

I've seen this sort of thing before, going straight from civvy to SF groups...

When?

 

[Gunner98]

Young is no longer part of the picture either.  Able-bodied a with patience, and a flexible, adaptable mind.

It is less likely to stand in line like the "old days", it more likely to find the desk unoccupied or the door with sign stating "Closed, please call again."

A web URL or Voice message for communications or directions.

 

[WO2 Gubbels]

  I'm pretty sure that the SAS allow direct entry for Civilians.  I could be wrong but do believe I watched a documentry on it, might be possible to dig it up.

 

[aesop081]

I've seen this sort of thing before, going straight from civvy to SF groups...

Where did you see that ?  You joined the army yesterday so it has me wondering.......

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Simple, put the CD-Rom in and voila.......

 

[aesop081]

Simple, put the CD-Rom in and voila.......

what was i thinking........

 

[JBP]

what was i thinking........

All I meant, you old nit-pickers, was that I've heard of it before. Other services, NOT Canadian. One example is Norway I believe also, a guy I used to MSN with said he was going for some type of SF force they have, but he had university degree and previous military srvc (only 2 yrs). Not sure also if he was blowing smoke up my a$$ either.

As I stated before, I don't think it's a good idea... Just my opinion.

Oh wait, it doesn't matter, I've only been in since yesterday...

U guys having been in for awhile I suppose know everything... Darn! Even who I have and haven't talked to, and what I do and don't know or have heard and/or seen! Damn! I'll catch U guys yet with a surprise!

:

U folks need to relax.

PS> Sorry if I jumped the gun but certain people on this web forum always seem to jump down others' throats for silly things.

 

[GO!!!]

Jumping down peoples throats for talking out of their a$$es - as you so eloquently put it.

In addition to this, if you have'nt doe any military trg, and are only joining this summer - how could you possibly KNOW what type of person the army needs, or what you could expect to encounter?

Also, the best place for misinformation/bad info, is "this guy I know..." if you can't annotate it with a proper footnote (or at least some substantiation, personal experience or otherwise) its probably bull.

As you saw earlier in the thread, I demonstrated my own ignorance of SF recruiting schemes.

In the army, believe 10% of what you hear, 50% of what you see, and 100% of what is handed to you in black and white.

Good luck this summer.

 

[Gunner98]

Tolerance, tolerance on both sides would help.  Where is Trinity when we need him? This site and forums has grown through a lot of tolerance.  It is nicer to disagree than to attack.  Sure, it is easier to unload than to keep quiet. 

I used to visit Mike's small page in the 90's when it was much smaller and so were our computers.  He had DND senior folks very interested, in fact I remember a time when it was rumored that the Inspector General's staff liked to take a peak at what Mike and friends were jabbering about. Remember those days - Mike, "old nit pickers", anyone.

I really like that many posters use IMHO, perhaps we could use IHIFASFIT (I heard it from a sober friend I trust), IHIFSG (I heard it from some guy) or maybe IMHDI (I may have dreamt it) in the same manner as IMHO to avoid nonsense detectors with different calibration settings from going off.

I'm sure there is mutually satisfactory Spec Fce SME, or a reliable source on this site, on the web or in the library or lastly maybe in my/your dreams tonight a drunken fairy might fart some crap in my/your ear that we can share with each other tomorrow. Good night.zzzz

 

[paracowboy]

  I'm pretty sure that the SAS allow direct entry for Civilians.  

no, they do not. Several years experience in a conventional unit are mandatory.

I could be wrong but do believe I watched a documentry on it

are you sure it was a documentary, and not a 'reality show' called "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?"

 

[JBP]

Jumping down peoples throats for talking out of their a$$es - as you so eloquently put it.

In addition to this, if you have'nt doe any military trg, and are only joining this summer - how could you possibly KNOW what type of person the army needs, or what you could expect to encounter?

Also, the best place for misinformation/bad info, is "this guy I know..." if you can't annotate it with a proper footnote (or at least some substantiation, personal experience or otherwise) its probably bull.

As you saw earlier in the thread, I demonstrated my own ignorance of SF recruiting schemes.

In the army, believe 10% of what you hear, 50% of what you see, and 100% of what is handed to you in black and white.

Good luck this summer.

Fair enough, good points.

I've done a tiny bit of trng, BMQ and half of SQ so far. Nothing really, this summer is rest of SQ (11 days) then BIQ (1 month) and Stalwart Guardian (big reservist yearly excercise)... It seems to me also that don't believe certain kit exists until you have it in your hand and it was issued, or you've seen someone else get it issued, and not bought!!!! I was one of the only FNG's in my unit to get the new fancy-fangled gortex socks... From what I've read here and what my Sgt said though, they can be overrated...

Joe

 

[c4th]

no, they do not. Several years experience in a conventional unit are mandatory.

IHASFIT who saw this documentary several years back.  I believe it the SAS TA that was taking civvies when they stood too.  The story was that the line up at recruiting was around the block so the Sergeant-Major took them for a run until the crowd was sufficiently thinned out.  It could be lies but it was a good story.

 

[fleeingjam]

Does the french foreign legion count?

 

[paracowboy]

IHASFIT who saw this documentary several years back.   I believe it the SAS TA that was taking civvies when they stood too.   The story was that the line up at recruiting was around the block so the Sergeant-Major took them for a run until the crowd was sufficiently thinned out.   It could be lies but it was a good story.

ah! Yes, the TA version of the SAS did take civvies when they were being stood too. Back when they merged with the Artists Rifles, in '46-'47, and became 21 SAS (Artists) TA. Also, the Rhodesian SAS recruited civvies during their conflict with communist terrorists, including foreign-born nationals.