Well...I got the call.....

[tsokman]

Did you ever mention during your interviews that you want to be an effective commander-not just some concept of leadership you may personally have-and produce value for the CF...I thought those were key points during mine along with being well rounded and knowing my trade inside out along with deflecting attention away from yourself as much as possible within the framework of occupational trade offs-i.e CF centred mind set.

 

[Would_be_Artillery]

To be honest, I thought  the interview went very well. That was part of the reason I git so excited, it seemed like it coudl actually happen.

I answered all of the questions honestly, I prettied up nothing for them. I admitted that my desired to be in the forces requires that I be in a administrative position. That being said, I am willing to lead by example, as is the motto of CF officers. I told them that is was a career option, the long-haul but since I am from a 1-income middle-class family, the subsidized education would really help me, as OSAP can be a stressful experience. I clearly stated my reasons and my level of commitment, and they seemed to take it all well. I was found out to be colour blind level 2, which null and voided my MARS application. I would upset my family and myself if I became an NCM, it just is not an option.

I realize leadership is not a toy to be used, and I would greatly appreciate to to not be seen as a naive fool. It is something that I have always wanted to achieve, I will not apologize for that.

 

[tsokman]

Maybe youre having a bit of a cultural issue there with your parents.  In alot of countries being an NCM just means youre from a lower social class.  Thats not necessarily the case in Canada.  The way I approached my interview was that Im producing value for the CF and any value that comes to me is being produced secondarily by the engagement process. Also, I noticed giving a single reason for anything wasnt productive--combination reasons with min-max priorities were preferable-i.e I want to serve the CF and if I can get my Masters applicable to my service that would be fantastic but I would even take a position as a line infantryman as well.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It is convient to dictate what someone else should or shouldn't be, but ask yourselves, the officers, would you trade your position for that of a NCM, if you had the chance of doing it over again?

Some have.  They wanted a trade more.

If that is the intellectual grade of the existing officers, the recuiting centres seem to have raised their standards since.

I cam here to seek realistic advice, but have been treated shamelessly like a child.

Imagine that, yet somehow we have kids on this forum whom get treated like adults.
Interesting.......

I would upset my family and myself if I became an NCM, it just is not an option.

Well all I can say is that I'm sure the board saw the same pathetic shallowness in you that you have shown to us..........................kudos to them.

Thanks for nothing.

Oh, your welcome.

 

[tristismilitis]

Why could you not bare taking orders from a young LT...Sounds flippant to me. Anyways just intuitively a senior NCO is probably a better small unit leader then a fresh green 2nd LT.  Wouldnt a senior NCO have a better chance of being accepted as an officer then someone straight off the street...

Oddly, the chances of coming in from civvy street are much better as you are not leaving a position that the CF has already paid to train/employ you in, plus the expectations are higher for enlisted personnel as they have already been trained to a CF standard and had leadership qualities measured directly (that’s right would_be_artilery, all the other people replying are dead on in saying that NCMs lead. For starters who do you think teaches the BMOQ courses?!).

There is the University Training Plan Non-Commissioned Member (UTPNCM) competition for NCM's which allows successful candidates to go to school and obtain a degree (on subsidy) and take up a commissioned rank after graduation, but that route requires a substantive Corporal rank at a minimum (and I do mean minimum, it often takes additional years to acquire all the needed pieces to apply for this program when you are working fully in your trade, going on course/exercise/tour).
Technically any NCM holding a substantive Corporal rank and a degree can apply to be  commissioned from the ranks but the successful candidate is generally at least a MCpl if not a WO (or above) and competition is fierce for both UTPNCM and commissioning from the ranks. The PSO tells applicants right from the start that it is not abnormal to get a rejection the first time around and they encourage you to take another year to round out your application (volunteer hours, improve your GPA etc) in order to reapply the next year.

Any way you look at it the road to a commission has challenges and requires perseverance and PATIENCE (both of which you will need in abundance for the duration of your career). To continue all you need to do is work you’re a$$ off for the next year to make yourself more competitive (take spring/summer semester if you can to improve your GPA, volunteer, perhaps get some work experience in the field you are aiming for, see if you can make an appointment to go see someone in the military or equivalent civilian position you hope to hold and interview them/job shadow). But if you can’t manage to suck it up and give it another year then I think we are all better off (yourself included) to not have you reapply.

You say we are treating you like a child but truly you are acting/posting like a petulant child that didn’t get picked first for something as evidenced by comments such as ‘someone from Quebec beating you for a position’. If you were acting as a mature candidate you would take what you could from your rejection/posted comments and do something with them. For instance, if you truly believe someone from Quebec was more successful, think about it! Maybe they were already bilingual which is an eventual requirement for all officers, so perhaps you could take a few French courses before you reapply. While that may not mean you are bilingual it shows initiative and potential.

I agree with mewingkitty, I wasn’t sure how to respond but I will say this: Leading troops isn’t a ‘sweet deal’ it is an honour, a privilege and bloody hard work. It’s not 30 anonymous people you are commanding around a video game environment, they are real people and their trust and loyalty can only be earned through competent, dedicated and responsible leadership.
Also, I can tell you personally from both the NCM and Officer point of view that I do not appreciate your tone and that is what people take away when you don’t have the chance to explain or draft a rebuttal, it’s not just what you say, it’s how you say it. Troops deserve respect and treating leadership as a ‘sweet deal’, and thanking people for nothing doesn’t inspire confidence in your potential troops or your potential peers who are replying to you on this forum.

Additionally, you might want to give a thought to waiting a night or two before you post online when you are angry or upset about something…oh wait, that would require patience. Well, point to work on at any rate. Good Luck.

 

[tsokman]

Can you apply DEO on re-engagement...

Maybe you approached the officer application process in the wrong manner or with the wrong orientation...From what I gathered the ideal candidate was some kind of well-rounded morphing leprechaun who could oscillate between contradictory states and trade offs and produce long term value for the CF.. Commitment wise as officer I would have said life. As a tech I mentioned min 10 max 25 or to retirement whichever is later.

 

[Loachman]

You wanted input and advice and you got it.

It was blunt and honest, whether you liked it or not.

I saw exactly what the others did, and I did not like what I saw at all.

Your attitude, frankly, sucks - or at least the expression of it.

You may eventually get accepted. You may even get through the training process successfully and be commissioned, but I doubt that if you carry on like this. Unless you reassess yourself and stop making excuses, blaming others, and showing a lack of respect and consideration for your potential subordinates you are going to be a danger to them and others (my greatest concern) and yourself.

I am especially leary of anybody who says that they want to be "an authority figure". It indicates to me that you are doing this for the wrong reasons, and have no clue what the right reasons are.

You cannot lead unless you can follow.

I read and re-read all of your posts here. You managed to set off every personal alarm bell that I have.

You can now go and toss your teddy into a corner and pout, or you can do an honest personal appraisal based upon what you've been told by several people that may end up working with or for you, or those of us already at ranks that it would take you several years to achieve, and who have amassed several years of experience and know well about what they speak.

Your call. We'll help, but only when you're ready.

 

[Would_be_Artillery]

Oh, your welcome.

Was that whole post the highlight of your day? If your goal was to make another feel bad about themself then you have failed. Try someone else grandpa.

tristismilitis and tsokman have made helpful posts, to them I say thank you. And let me make this known that I never meant to make light of a leadership position, and the interpretation of the "sweet deal" was not the one I was trying to put out there. What I meant to say was that the hardships of the job are also balanced by that great honor. I was very upset earlier in the day and I have cooled off since, I believe. That being said, I think it would do many members here good to not viciously attack someone for views which they hold. If I think being a garbage man is not for me, because I do not want to be known as a garbage man, that is my opinion and I have every right to it. I'm sure many garbage men might get upset at my statement but we all hold these kinds of views, some more extreme than others. The same rule goes for my comment on being an NCM. My view of a respectable career is different than the next person's. Would you raised your children by encouraging them to work in larbour intensive positions? Most reasonable people would naturally want better for their kids. Again I have not uttered a single disrespectful word to NCMs, in my opinion. You people can take offense at whatever you want, but turning my thread into a flaming rally is not appreciated.

 

[Kat Stevens]

You're a fucking tool, full stop.  Mods, I'll take that warning gladly.

 

[Would_be_Artillery]

Loachman, it is a simple fact of life that one will not get along with everyone they interact with. I am astonished that i've raised "every" personal alarm bell with what little i've said. Getting the point across is good, but no one likes to be treated like a child, that includes me. I believe I am ready, I also believe I have more disicipline and maturity than the members on this forum think I do, which is unfortunate but nonetheless irrelevent.

I do realize this set-back is not a tombstone, but I would appreciate learning from the experience of others and being set for my next attempt, instead of leaving myself at the mercy of my admittedly inexperienced devices. So yes, helpful adivice is needed, wanted, and welcomed.

 

[Would_be_Artillery]

You're a ******* tool, full stop.  Mods, I'll take that warning gladly.

This is ridiculous. Are there even any mods here? I thought this was a rather serious forum.

 

[Loachman]

Yes, there is at least one Mod here - me.

That was a low blow, but I'm going to let it slide.

You need to see this, or you are going to fail - it's just a matter of when.

You said "So yes, helpful adivice is needed, wanted, and welcomed."

You've been given it, but you have not heeded it.

If you think that some of us here have been rough, you are going to be absolutely savaged during training, and by a lot of NCMs who will have a lot of influence over what happens to you.

Understand now, the easy way, or not.

You are not a Field Marshall in real life, and this is not a game.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Very serious forum,.......hence we don't suffer fools very well.

When you have learned, and/or earned, even a small fraction of the leadership ability of lifetime Cpl.  "Kat" Stevens maybe you might try this Military thing again.

[Oh yea, internet commanding a Panzer division doesn't count ]

Come back again in a few months and I will unlock this for you.