WAR OF 1812: UNIT RECOGNITION

[Sythen]

Good a place as any for this..

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2011/10/20111011-161024.html

OTTAWA -- The Conservative government will spend $28 million over the next four years commemorating the bicentennial anniversary of the War of 1812.
Earlier this year, media reports suggested the feds were prepared to spend upwards of $100 million on the commemorations, a figure the government repeatedly denied.

On Tuesday, the government announced its $28-million plan to remember the battle between Britain and the U.S. for land that would later become part of Canada.

 

[The Bread Guy]

More on the "battle honour" issue....

It's been almost 200 years since the War of 1812 broke out, but the smoke hasn't cleared yet in a fight over whether present-day Canadian military regiments should be awarded official "battle honours" recognizing their links to Canadian defence units that took part in the historic conflict.

A group including historians and retired military personnel is lobbying the Canadian government to end decades of official resistance and finally bestow the symbolic honours as part of the country's War of 1812 bicentennial commemorations, a $28-million program of fort refurbishments, battle re-enactments and monument-building announced Tuesday by Heritage Minister James Moore.

If the petitioners get their way, a number of current military units — including the Cameron Highlanders, Black Watch of Canada and the Lincoln and Welland Regiment — would be entitled to embroider battle names such as Queenston Heights, Chateauguay and Crysler's Farm on their regimental flags or "colours" ....

Postmedia News, 12 Oct 11

Here's the wording being used by Ottawa from the official announcement:

.... Over the next four years, the Government will invest to increase Canadians' awareness of this defining moment in our history. This will include support for .... celebrating and honouring the links that many of our current militia regiments in Ontario, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada have to the War of 1812 ....

 

[The Bread Guy]

More from the "recognize 'em all" folks, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

One might think that the important victory at Crysler’s Farm and its counterpart at Châteauguay might have been marked by the award of Battle Honours to the military units that fought at these engagements.

Unfortunately this is not so.

Inexplicably the Department of National Defence refuses to recognize Canadian military heritage prior to the year 1855. Since the 1920s DND has refused all attempts by modern units to obtain Battle Honours won by their predecessors before that date.

Britain and the United States have granted Battle Honours or Battle Streamers respectively to units that fought in the War of 1812 but Canada refuses despite the recently stated wish of the federal government to honour “the links that many of our current militia regiments ... have to the War of 1812.” The best that DND will offer in the way of commemorating the sacrifices made by Canadian soldiers during the War of 1812 is a “commemorative banner” to be issued to militia units and lapel pins for members of the Canadian Forces. What this banner looks like nobody will say, but it apparently resembles those “OPEN” flags one often sees flying on the front of some stores.

To correct this situation, a group of historians and retired military personnel have mobilized. “Honour our 1812 Heroes” has the goal of securing Battle Honours for the modern Canadian regiments that perpetuate those units that served in 1812-1815. This would include the Brockville Rifles and Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders of Cornwall whose predecessors fought at Crysler’s Farm.

The group’s website — http:/www.warof1812.ca/heroes — contains the historical background and permits one to send an email to Peter MacKay, the Minister of National Defence, asking him to correct this historic wrong. The HOH group’s slogan is: “They Fought for You, Will You Fight for Them?”

Interested readers are asked to help this group by June 18, 2012, the official start of the Bicentennial of the War of 1812 by writing to Mackay or advising their MP of their support for the group’s objectives.

Remembrance Day should be about commemorating the valour and sacrifice of Canadian soldiers in all wars throughout our history and not just those of more recent date. — D.E. Graves

Ottawa Citizen, 9 Nov 11

 

[q_1966]

An interesting read, including a mention of the War of 1812.
http://www.legionmagazine.com/en/index.php/2003/09/canadas-battle-honours/

 

[Michael OLeary]

An interesting read, including a mention of the War of 1812.
http://www.legionmagazine.com/en/index.php/2003/09/canadas-battle-honours/

It's nice to see he clearly makes the point that there is no lineage connection (with regard to the one specific honour he mention):

Units of the Canadian Militia fought in most of these actions. One of them, the Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles, was awarded Niagara, the first ever for a Canadian unit. Unfortunately, as no existing unit traces its lineage to the Glengarrys, no serving regiment carries this honour.

There was an interesting series of articles in Legion magazine by Boileau on battle honours. The articles did, however, have one consistent problem that can only serve to propagate the confusion over lineage and where battle honours held by current units gained them. Each article had an information box listing "Units Awarded" the battle honour - these lists did not, unfortunately, specific that they were listing current holding (i.e., perpetuating) units, and not the names of the CEF units on the battlefield being described in the accompanying articles.

 

[Michael OLeary]

With regard to the War of 1812, I've been made aware that DND is working on a recognition system that will link existing units to War of 1812 units solely on the basis of geographical coincidence. Units will be given the choice of accepting the connection. It is not battle honours.

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

Can it be presumed that these 'recognitions' (?) are going to be exclusive to the Militia Primary Reserve?

 

[Pusser]

Can it be presumed that these 'recognitions' (?) are going to be exclusive to the Militia Primary Reserve?

And what Regular Force units claim lineage back that far?

 

[Michael OLeary]

And what Regular Force units claim lineage back that far?

None, and neither does any Reserve regiment do so with a legitimate official claim. Any such claim is only supportable as an unofficial connection on the basis of terrain, which is the basis for the proposed recognition system.

Honours and distinctions are normally carried by Regiments, and not subdivided among battalions of regiments. To isolate individual battalions would also require the same approach be taken with Primary Reserve regiments that have more than one battalion. How this new system of recognition will be promulgated remains to be seen.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Mr. O'Leary, I can think of one Regiment that "could" claim lineage and that would be the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.

 

[armyvern]

Mr. O'Leary, I can think of one Regiment that "could" claim lineage and that would be the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.

Pffft; you`re the babies of this nation. Back up 5 steps!!

 

[Michael OLeary]

Mr. O'Leary, I can think of one Regiment that "could" claim lineage and that would be the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.

Claiming lineage and proving it in accordance with official requirements for lineage are two different things.  Just because any regiment has been claiming connections and convincing generations of its soldiers of their right to do so does not make it officially recognizable.

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 2: Infantry Regiments
THE ROYAL NEWFOUNDLAND REGIMENT

This Reserve Force regiment originated on 24 October 1949 and incorporates the following regiments

CAO 110-3, Supp Issue No. 152/49. The Royal Newfoundland Regiment cannot establish its identity with earlier units since there is no unbroken existence. It may, however, claim to inherit the traditions of early regiments which were units of the British Army, although raised in Newfoundland. A Newfoundland Regiment of Fencible Infantry was formed in 1795 and disbanded in 1802. In 1803, a new unit, the Newfoundland Fencible Infantry was formed. In 1806 it became the Royal Newfoundland Fencible Infantry and served with distinction through the War of 1812. It was disbanded in 1816.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Claiming lineage and proving it in accordance with official requirements for lineage are two different things.  Just because any regiment has been claiming connections and convincing generations of its soldiers of their right to do so does not make it officially recognizable.

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 2: Infantry Regiments
THE ROYAL NEWFOUNDLAND REGIMENT

Seen.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Units of the Canadian Militia fought in most of these actions. One of them, the Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles, was awarded Niagara, the first ever for a Canadian unit. Unfortunately, as no existing unit traces its lineage to the Glengarrys, no serving regiment carries this honour.

Stormont Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders?

After the surrender at Yorktown, veterans of the King's Royal Regiment of New York and the 84th Regiment of Foot (Royal Highland Emigrants), were given land on the north bank of the Saint Lawrence River so they could defend Upper Canada from the new enemy to the south. In 1804, veterans of the Glengarry Fencibles, a Highland regiment that served in Europe with the British Army, settled just north of the American Revolutionary War veterans. The first militia unit west of Montreal was organized at Cornwall in 1787 under the command of Major John Macdonnell, late of the K.R.R.N.Y. During the War of 1812, the area militia and the Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles helped the British Army fight off the Americans. Only breaks in unit continuity in the pre-Confederation period deny the Regiment the "Niagara" battle honour and the status of oldest anglophone militia regiment in Canada.[1]

But

Claiming lineage and proving it in accordance with official requirements for lineage are two different things.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Stormont Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders?

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 2: Infantry Regiments
STORMONT, DUNDAS AND GLENGARRY HIGHLANDERS

This Reserve Force regiment originated in Cornwall, Ontario on 3 July 1868, when the '59th "Stormont and Glengarry Battalion of Infantry"' was authorized to be formed.

MGO 3 Jul 68. Formed from six independent rifle and infantry companies authorized on the following dates: 'No. 1 Company' (1st Volunteer Militia Rifle Company at Cornwall, 22 January 1862), 'No. 2 Company' ((2nd) Volunteer Militia Rifle Company at Cornwall, 31 January 1862), 'No. 3 Company' (Volunteer Militia Company of Infantry at Cornwall, 14 November 1862), 'No. 4 Company' (Infantry Company at Lancaster, 6 July 1866), 'No. 5 Company' (Infantry Company at Williamstown, 6 July 1866), and 'No. 6 Company' (Infantry Company at Dickinson's Landing, 20 July 1866)

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks Michael.

Would the 59th Battalion have drawn men weapons and equipment from the Glengarry Fencibles?

 

[Michael OLeary]

According to the now-defunct site Regiments.org, the origins of the 59th Battalion were as follows:

1868.07.03 59th Stormont and Glengarry Battalion of Infantry formed with HQ at Cornwall, Ont., by regimentation of four independent companies in Stormont and Glengarry counties (and four new coys raised); unofficially claims to perpetuate The King's Royal Regiment of New York (1776-1784), The Glengarry Fencibles (1783-1864), Royal Highland Emigrants, The Glengarry Fencibles [Scotland] (1794-1802), Upper Canada Militia, The Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles (1812-1816), and The Royal Canadian Regiment of Volunteer Foot (1794-1802) 

No. 1 Company at Cornwall, raised 22 Jan. 1862 as 1st Cornwall Rifle Coy
No. 2 Company at Cornwall, raised 31 Jan. 1862 as 2nd Cornwall Rifle Coy; moved 1 May 1907 to Morrisburg
No. 3 Company at Cornwall, raised 14 Nov. 1862 as Cornwall Infantry Coy; moved 15 June 1888 to Alexandria
No. 4 Company at Lancaster, raised 1866; moved 22 June 1883 to Township of Finch
No. 5 Company at Williamstown, raised 1868; disbanded 1871?; replaced 1 Mar. 1872 by No. 5 Coy at Farran's Point, transferred from 56th Battalion; moved 1 June 1910 to Osnabruck Centre
No. 6 Company at Dickinson's Landing (mounted infantry), raised 1868; moved 24 July 1868 to Lunenburg; moved 1 Oct. 1898 to Williamstown
No. 7 Company at Dungevan, raised 21 Aug. 1868 (mounted infantry); moved 30 Dec 1875 to Athol; moved 22 Jan. 1883 to Township of Roxborough; moved 1 Mar. 1904 to Lancaster
No. 8 Company at South Finch (Vernon), transferred 1 Mar. 1880 from independent status (formerly in 43rd Battalion); disbanded 7 May 1880; new No. 8 Coy raised 1 Oct. 1899 at Maxville

If any men, weapons or equipment survived from the Glengarry Fencibles, that may have been in the specific companies with coincident recruiting areas. Note, however that some of the independent companies that were absorbed into the new 59th Stormont and Glengarry Battalion of Infantry also have dates of existence that begin before the Fencibles officially ceased to exist. Only a detailed review of pay records would confirm the existence of men on more than one unit roll over the period of change.

 

[Pusser]

What about the Queen's York Rangers?  They claim to have been originally spawned from Roger's Rangers (as do the US Army Rangers - that's irony).  According to their cap badge's registry with the Canadian Heraldic Authority (http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=426&ProjectElementID=1479), the fact that it says "1st Americans" is in deference to a Loyalist regiment formed during the Revolution.  If they cannot claim their lineage back that far, then why can they have that cap badge?  It seems to imply some form of official recognition.

 

[Michael OLeary]

If they cannot claim their lineage back that far, then why can they have that cap badge?  It seems to imply some form of official recognition.

If regimental choices of badges, dress and naming was enough to "prove" lineages, then I would have expected someone to show up with the supporting paperwork some time in the past 100+ years.

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 1: Armour, Artillery and Field Engineer Regiments - ARMOUR REGIMENTS
THE QUEEN'S YORK RANGERS (1ST AMERICAN REGIMENT) (RCAC)

This Reserve Force regiment originated on 14 September 1866 and incorporates the following regiments.

 

[uptheglens]

What about the Queen's York Rangers?  They claim to have been originally spawned from Roger's Rangers (as do the US Army Rangers - that's irony).  According to their cap badge's registry with the Canadian Heraldic Authority (http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=426&ProjectElementID=1479), the fact that it says "1st Americans" is in deference to a Loyalist regiment formed during the Revolution.  If they cannot claim their lineage back that far, then why can they have that cap badge?  It seems to imply some form of official recognition.

By the same token, then the SD&G Highlanders shouldn't have "Glengarry Fencibles" on their cap badge either.