War Museum Controversy and Follow-up Thread [merged]

[condor888000]

Good points all, espically the bit about the public believing that this was the most importent event in the history of the CAR. I still think that the story needs to be told, though you have managned to convince me that it should be done in a more tasteful manner. But I still stand by my belief that all things done by members of the military should be shown, no matter how deplorable. What also needs to be shown is the aftermath however, what happened to the men once they were found out.

 

[Canadian Sig]

condor,


Have you researched what happened after "they were found out". Do you know how they were found out? Man even what happened to that $%##^ Matchee was a tragedy ( and before I get nailed, I'm not a fan of that SOB ).

 

[condor888000]

No, I admit that I am ignorant in the matter. I was always more interested in the period up to the Korean war.

 

[Infanteer]

No, I admit that I am ignorant in the matter. I was always more interested in the period up to the Korean war.

So you are basically saying that you have no clue what you are talking about?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

...and will not change?

 

[condor888000]

In effect yes. I know little of the Canadian mission to Somalia, that I freely admit(Actually that's not that true. I know parts. I know that one of hte men attempted suicide, failed and is now mentally deficent, unfit to stand trial. Thats about it though.). However, I still have an opinion, they're like assholes, everyone's got one...........

Also, nowhere in my posts do I say I know much about what happened in Somalia. I spoke in fairly broad terms, nothing in particular about that mission. With the possible exception of reply 83.

And yes Bruce, my opinion on the showing of all the behaviours of Canadian troops will not change.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
And yes Bruce, my opinion on the showing of all the behaviours of Canadian troops will not change.

.....yes, but when you go to the Hockey Hall of Fame would you expect the main exhibit, when you first walked in, to be Todd Bertuzzi punching Mr. Smith in the back of the head or Paul Henderson's goal of 1972?

Some things just should be more prioritized.......

 

[condor888000]

I still think that the story needs to be told, though you have managned to convince me that it should be done in a more tasteful manner. But I still stand by my belief that all things done by members of the military should be shown, no matter how deplorable.

Like that says?

NOTE: I meant that my opinion on the informing the public of both sides of the story wouldn't change. Not the opinion on the painting itself.

 

[Infanteer]

.....yes, but when you go to the Hockey Hall of Fame would you expect the main exhibit, when you first walked in, to be Todd Bertuzzi punching Mr. Smith in the back of the head or Paul Henderson's goal of 1972?

Some things just should be more prioritized.......

Bingo.

Although it would be Mr. Moore on the receiving end of Bertuzzi's punch, this statement conveys what most of us feel.

 

[George Wallace]

I think this is taking PC make-sure-we-remember-everything way to far. ...............
Its like having a murderer in the family and then your neighbour hangs a picture of him on your front door for all to see.

Actually, I would say that that is exactly what it is.  

The same as my "Mark Lapine" comments.  Why is it OK to insult the CF, the Airborne, etc, but too PC to do something similar to another group?  I equate the insult to the former members of the Airborne, by this action of PC individuals, to what the women of this nation would feel should we rename their 'day of Remembrance' as Mark Lapine Day and hang up his portrait.  It is a very sour point with a group of people who have served this Nation, and who have been treated like dirt.  It is shameful that Canadian Soldiers, as witnessed in Holland this week, are treated with more respect outside of Canada, than they are here at home.

I intend to visit the Museum.  I will draw my conclusions on the matter from that visit.

 

[winchable]

Therefore, we would have thousands of large portraits of soldiers doing their good deeds in a place of prominence.

Well since the museum isn't open, and no-one's seen the context these paintings are done in none of us can say for certain that this isnt the case.

The art gallery at the museum has 19,000 works of art!
The nature of an art gallery demands that these paintings will be rotated through.

In fact, I've seen nothing to suggest that these paintings are given any kind of central prominence in the museum.

I've been to the imperial war museum in London and they managed to portray all aspects of war (which is a fundementally uncivilized business) from the holocaust to the British Raj's exploits without any sort of outrage from the public.

I intend to visit the Museum.  I will draw my conclusions on the matter from that visit.

Thankyou George, someone making sense.

 

[Art Johnson]

So far Condor all you have proved is that you are an immature Cadet with a closed mind. Maybe if you had seen some Active Service under fire you might change your mind.

 

[camochick]

So far Condor all you have proved is that you are an immature Cadet with a closed mind. Maybe if you had seen some Active Service under fire you might change your mind.

I don't think that throwing insults at someone is very productive to the thread.Perhaps an example of having a closed mind could be freaking out over an exhibit at a museum before the museum has even been opened.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I don't think that throwing insults at someone is very productive to the thread.Perhaps an example of having a closed mind could be freaking out over an exhibit at a museum before the museum has even been opened.

Sorry I fail to see the insult, but a very true observation. Yet you make a statement about having a closed mind on the paintings....

dileas

tess

 

[bossi]

During the construction of the new War Museum, I kept wondering what the "Fifth Column" from the People's Liberation Army ... er, um ... federal Liberal party ... ooops ... politically correct Museum of Man Civilisation were plotting - I knew only too well that they'd plunge a dagger into the heart of our Army, but where and when was the only question ... and what a magnificent blow they struck (kinda reminds me of one of my favourite words in the English language:  "Quisling" - a man so reviled, his name became a word ... but ... I digress ... again ...).

What better way to cripple the pride, honour and heritage of our proud Army than to slap each and every visitor to the new War Museum in the face with these paintings?  Bravo.  I'm so impressed with their skullduggery, I'd like to get the author's autograph ... on the bottom of the Rideau Canal ... in blood ... (oh, dear ... was I using my "outer voice" again ... that darned malaria medication ...)

Proof in the pudding is this:  These paintings have already caused such outrage, and the Museum ain't even open yet (again - my hat is off to the Quislings inside the Museum ... they have administered a masterful coup de main ... or should I say "coup de peinture" ... chuckle - wish I knew how to say "stroke" as in "brush stroke" in French ...)

The Fifth Column inside the Museum are achieving their aim - regrettably, they know "us" only too well - Army guys have this ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE habit of fighting amongst ourselves ... when we should be focussing our attention on an external enemy ... (but, again - I point to the incredibly adroit explotation of "divide and concquer" as demonstrated by these POS Rump Rangers within the Museum ...)

I hate it whenever we fight amongst ourselves instead of slaying and vanquishing our real enemies.
Whenever we start squabbling amongst ourselves, the bad guys are able to advance THEIR yardsticks
(e.g. they got away with disbanding the Airborne, we're losing our tanks, the infantry have lost pioneers and mortars, we sold our frikkin Chinooks to the Dutch, etc., etc. ad nauseum ...)

But, then again ... maybe I'm just grumpy because I've been awake since 0200 ...

 

[jmacleod]

There must be a concerted and totally focused movement to withdraw control of the National War Museum totally away from the Museum of Civilization, and ensure that a restructured War Museum be under the control of the serving and former Canadian military.
My recommendation is the model of the Imperial War Museum, well known to my associates and I. The Army, Navy and Air Force
Benevolent Funds could be the catalyst in forming an association with DND, all Veterans organizations, public spirited citizens and the private industrial and financial sector. The formula used to create the Canadian Warplane Heritage Foundation (CWHF), the HMCS Sackville Foundation the various private sector museums located across Canada which focus on the use of Tax Credits for funding, plus a Board of Trustees (Directors) with direct links to the Canadian military, and staff dedicated to the preservation of the outstanding military history of our country, without a subtle or otherwise hidden agenda is critically necessary.
I was very apprehensive when it was made known that the Canadian Museum of Civilization, which is not especially significant to Canadian history would be the agency of control over the National War Museum, and our apprehension turned out to be quite correct, as noted by Journalist Peter Worthington and Mr. Clifford Chadderton OC, men whose opinions count. One should visit if possible the Imperial War Museum, and it's Forces museums at RAF Duxford, Hendon, HMS Belfast, etc. - these are total participatory facilities, designed to attract public participation and private sector industry support - flying the Tornado F1 simulator at Duxford is an interesting and compelling experience.
Dr David Baird of Saint John NB former Director the Canadian National Museum of Science and Technology had the right idea - museums are for people and they must reflect in a positive light, a factual and compelling message.
Jack MacLeod

Edited for presentation, content unchanged.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Thanks, jmacleod.  You summed up what I was trying to say much more eloquently....

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[condor888000]

So far Condor all you have proved is that you are an immature Cadet with a closed mind. Maybe if you had seen some Active Service under fire you might change your mind.

Immature cadet with a closed mind eh? You made this assumption after reading what? 4, 5 posts of mine in this thread? Never speaking to me personally? I guess you don't have to......seeing "cadet" in a profile is enough eh?  :

Alright, you've made your point, I'll slink off back to the cadet form..........never to come back out and state my opinion in a matter which involes all Canadians, those who have served or are serving, and those who haven't and never will.

PS: If you want to slam me, go ahead, however, don't slam cadets at the same time.

 

[muskrat89]

If we could get this thread back on course, please....

Thanks 

 

[the 48th regulator]

He only pointed out your inexperienced opinion, and did not insult cadets.

You should feel honored receiving a comment like that from Art, not insulted.

dileas

tess