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And if you are on the Wet Coast, go for a visit to the BLOG (and not the web kind, the Base kind haha). There is a Veh Tech or two at the BLOG that know my (nick)name. All the trades are kicking around there as well. First hand info is always better than what we can pass on via computer screen.
Wook
Wook
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Not sure if this is the proper location, feel free to move tihs tread.
So I have finished my BMQ and I am now at Borden on PAT awaiting my courses for AVN Tech. During Basic training I decided I would like to remuster to infantry and spend a few years doing that, I've weighed the pros and cons, and in the end I think that is where I would like to head as of now. I have talked to my supervising SGT and he said I can put in a memo any time but I should wait to try the course first.
So basically what I am wondering is what is faster to remuster?
-Put in a VR and come back in the forces as infantry,
or
-Put in a memo to remuster and wait the process out for ahowever many months it takes.
Also wondering any problems or rammifications i will see because of either one of thse processes. Is there still a 6 month waiting period after you Release?(Heard this 6 month rule was removed) Thank you for any comments or help.
So I have finished my BMQ and I am now at Borden on PAT awaiting my courses for AVN Tech. During Basic training I decided I would like to remuster to infantry and spend a few years doing that, I've weighed the pros and cons, and in the end I think that is where I would like to head as of now. I have talked to my supervising SGT and he said I can put in a memo any time but I should wait to try the course first.
So basically what I am wondering is what is faster to remuster?
-Put in a VR and come back in the forces as infantry,
or
-Put in a memo to remuster and wait the process out for ahowever many months it takes.
Also wondering any problems or rammifications i will see because of either one of thse processes. Is there still a 6 month waiting period after you Release?(Heard this 6 month rule was removed) Thank you for any comments or help.
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DO NOT release and start over with the CFRC. Search for threads on the time it takes to do verification of former service, that step alone ensures that it is not a faster way. the next time someone suggests that to you, ask who they personally know that has done it, you'll probably find it's more myth than fact.
If you want to change trades, get a memo in. You'll probably have to have an interview with the Base Personnel Selection Officer.
Don't wait until your current trade has more time and money invested in you. "Trying" the course means someone else doesn't get loaded on it that may stay in the trade.
If you want to change trades, get a memo in. You'll probably have to have an interview with the Base Personnel Selection Officer.
Don't wait until your current trade has more time and money invested in you. "Trying" the course means someone else doesn't get loaded on it that may stay in the trade.
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I agree fully with Michael. Request a VOT now. Don't wait until you are on your QL3 nor release and re-enrol. You will be much better off that way. You will have to write a memo and complete the VOT application. PSO interview is a must.
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The previous posters are correct, put in your OT now.
If you wait to put in a memo they will laugh at you and say you should have done it in basic or in the PAT platoon you're in now because they've already invested too much time and money into your training.
One other thing: Make sure you constantly remind your supervising Sgt of the memo you put in, and of the status of your OT. He will probably come to hate you for it but I'm telling you, especially at PAT in Borden, that memos like that get easily forgotten amongst the massive piles of paperwork they get there.
One last thing I advise: Patience. The system tends to work VERY slowly when it comes to these sorts of things.
Hope the infantry works out for ya!
If you wait to put in a memo they will laugh at you and say you should have done it in basic or in the PAT platoon you're in now because they've already invested too much time and money into your training.
One other thing: Make sure you constantly remind your supervising Sgt of the memo you put in, and of the status of your OT. He will probably come to hate you for it but I'm telling you, especially at PAT in Borden, that memos like that get easily forgotten amongst the massive piles of paperwork they get there.
One last thing I advise: Patience. The system tends to work VERY slowly when it comes to these sorts of things.
Hope the infantry works out for ya!
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Thank you all for your quick replies. I figured that would be the right way to go. I have a few memos in front of me to work off of, but I'm not sure of exactly how to word it. But either way I will do as you recommend, pester him enough that he makes sure the memo finds it's way through the woodworks, thank you again.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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One important piece of advice that wasn't passed on yet, and that is "Don't burn any bridges".
I remember three colleagues who wrote memos requesting a Release to pursue a job in Alaska. Two wrote memos saying that they wanted to broaden their fields and experience and felt that the experience they gained in the CF would benefit them in their future endeavors, while the third wrote that he despised the military and Trade and Unit and wanted out. A year later, all three had found that life was not greener on the other side of the fence, and reapplied to get back into the CF. Two did, the third did not, make it through the re-enrolment process. Perhaps, someday you may want to go AVN again.
I remember three colleagues who wrote memos requesting a Release to pursue a job in Alaska. Two wrote memos saying that they wanted to broaden their fields and experience and felt that the experience they gained in the CF would benefit them in their future endeavors, while the third wrote that he despised the military and Trade and Unit and wanted out. A year later, all three had found that life was not greener on the other side of the fence, and reapplied to get back into the CF. Two did, the third did not, make it through the re-enrolment process. Perhaps, someday you may want to go AVN again.
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Hey all, I am LCIS tech nearing the end of my first contract. I was wondering if anyone knows if you can vot to ATIS without redoing the QL3 portion since the trades are so similar. I heard a rumor they were going to make the transition easier but I heard it from someone in the CF so I am reluctant to believe it. 
Thanks
Thanks
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I think that you would have to go back for a QL3, due to the fact of having no Radar trg, and the ATIS crypto portion is much longer than the LCIS. If you are at the 2nd Bn, maybe get a hold of the Tech WO at 731 Sigs Sqn to investigate. If at the 1st or 3rd Bn PPCLI, then one of the Techs at 408 Sqn would be appropriate to talk to. You can PM me if you require more help with this.
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Hey guys,
This is my first time posting on this forum, and I am sorry if this is not the right section.
So basicly, I am currently in the navy, I have 1 year in and I am QL3 qualified electrician currently on my OJT. I have been QL3 qualified for about 2 months, and I have realised that the only reason I went navy was to stay in victoria BC which was my home town originaly and I picked my trade acordingly to stay home, however now i am realising that I have mad a mistake, and I want to remuster into Air force as an aerospace telocomunication information systems tech, or ATIS tech, I was wondering What if any are my options? I don't want to go up the chain of command because I think that will cause discrimination against me for wanting to leave the trade in case I get denied. I would apreciate any advise, thank you in advance.
This is my first time posting on this forum, and I am sorry if this is not the right section.
So basicly, I am currently in the navy, I have 1 year in and I am QL3 qualified electrician currently on my OJT. I have been QL3 qualified for about 2 months, and I have realised that the only reason I went navy was to stay in victoria BC which was my home town originaly and I picked my trade acordingly to stay home, however now i am realising that I have mad a mistake, and I want to remuster into Air force as an aerospace telocomunication information systems tech, or ATIS tech, I was wondering What if any are my options? I don't want to go up the chain of command because I think that will cause discrimination against me for wanting to leave the trade in case I get denied. I would apreciate any advise, thank you in advance.
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I think you're stuck for the time being. You'd have to serve until you meet the criteria of the AVOT program, which means (last time I checked) four years in your current trade. Three years is a long time to be doing a job you don't want to be doing, but that's the danger in accepting a job for the wrong reasons.
A
aesop081
Guest
ivanbalvan said:
Unfortunately for you, you will need to involve your chain of command if you ever want to remuster.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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According to the Gospel as told by CFA0 11-12 OCCUPATION TRANSFER OF NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS - REGULAR FORCE *DWAN link*: I've put the text from the CFAO in yellow.
TYPES OF OCCUPATION TRANSFERS
3. OTs are categorized as: Compulsory, Voluntary, MOC Reassignments and Career Progression Occupation Transfers.
Because you are QL3 qualified, you can't request a MOC Reassignment.
6. MOC Reassignment. This category refers to OT of Privates Basic (Pte(B)) who have not yet attained QL3.
That leaves Voluntary OT.
5. Voluntary. This category refers to OT applied for by members under the:
a. Annual Voluntary Occupation Transfer Program (see Annex A);
b. Continuing Occupation Transfer Program (see Annex B); or
c. Land Occupation Transfer Program (LOTP) described at Annex C.
ATIS Tech isn't part of the COTP, so that is out. You aren't Combat Arms, so LOTP is out. That leaves AVOTP as your only option.
Info that applies for eligibility for AVOTP is found in Para 15 and Annex A, info below:
VOLUNTARY OT -GENERAL
15. Members applying for transfer under any of the voluntary OT programs must meet the following prerequisites:
a. minimum time prerequisites applicable to the OT program being considered, excluding LWOP (Leave Without Pay) granted on enrolment;
b. MOC selection standards, detailed in the Canadian Forces Manual of NCM Occupation Structure (A-PD-123);
c. language aptitude and proficiency standards;
d. MOC medical standards specified in A-MD-154-000/FP-000;
e. QL 4 qualification.
f. Only Ptes and Cpls and those MCpls and above who are prepared to relinquish their appointment or rank may apply for voluntary OT.
ANNEX A -- ANNUAL VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER PROGRAM
1. This program consists of a number of MOCs open for voluntary OT on a yearly basis and for a limited period of time. Eligible members may apply for up to two MOCs using the form at Annex D.
2. In addition to the general provisions described in paragraph 15 of this order, applicants must have a minimum of 48 months continuous service by 31 December of the year in which application is made.
3. The program is announced in February and a member may submit an application between the date the program is announced and 31 August of each year. Applications must reach NDHQ/DPCOR by 30 September. Applications of eligible members are reviewed by a NDHQ selection board in January. Under normal circumstances, successful candidates will commence MOC training in the calendar year following the year in which the Board's decision is rendered. Members not selected by the board must resubmit their applications if they wish to be reconsidered.
So, there is it. You'll need your QL4 qual (if you are in a trade that doesn't have a QL4 qual, then they use QL3 as the minimum QL level) and 48 months continuous service *before* you can apply.
Now, having typed all that out, there is nothing stopping you from requesting to talk to your FPSO shop to see if they have any other info that might provide you a "loophole" but, from my read and experience, you'll be where you are until you meet the CFAO requirements for an OT.
TYPES OF OCCUPATION TRANSFERS
3. OTs are categorized as: Compulsory, Voluntary, MOC Reassignments and Career Progression Occupation Transfers.
Because you are QL3 qualified, you can't request a MOC Reassignment.
6. MOC Reassignment. This category refers to OT of Privates Basic (Pte(B)) who have not yet attained QL3.
That leaves Voluntary OT.
5. Voluntary. This category refers to OT applied for by members under the:
a. Annual Voluntary Occupation Transfer Program (see Annex A);
b. Continuing Occupation Transfer Program (see Annex B); or
c. Land Occupation Transfer Program (LOTP) described at Annex C.
ATIS Tech isn't part of the COTP, so that is out. You aren't Combat Arms, so LOTP is out. That leaves AVOTP as your only option.
Info that applies for eligibility for AVOTP is found in Para 15 and Annex A, info below:
VOLUNTARY OT -GENERAL
15. Members applying for transfer under any of the voluntary OT programs must meet the following prerequisites:
a. minimum time prerequisites applicable to the OT program being considered, excluding LWOP (Leave Without Pay) granted on enrolment;
b. MOC selection standards, detailed in the Canadian Forces Manual of NCM Occupation Structure (A-PD-123);
c. language aptitude and proficiency standards;
d. MOC medical standards specified in A-MD-154-000/FP-000;
e. QL 4 qualification.
f. Only Ptes and Cpls and those MCpls and above who are prepared to relinquish their appointment or rank may apply for voluntary OT.
ANNEX A -- ANNUAL VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER PROGRAM
1. This program consists of a number of MOCs open for voluntary OT on a yearly basis and for a limited period of time. Eligible members may apply for up to two MOCs using the form at Annex D.
2. In addition to the general provisions described in paragraph 15 of this order, applicants must have a minimum of 48 months continuous service by 31 December of the year in which application is made.
3. The program is announced in February and a member may submit an application between the date the program is announced and 31 August of each year. Applications must reach NDHQ/DPCOR by 30 September. Applications of eligible members are reviewed by a NDHQ selection board in January. Under normal circumstances, successful candidates will commence MOC training in the calendar year following the year in which the Board's decision is rendered. Members not selected by the board must resubmit their applications if they wish to be reconsidered.
So, there is it. You'll need your QL4 qual (if you are in a trade that doesn't have a QL4 qual, then they use QL3 as the minimum QL level) and 48 months continuous service *before* you can apply.
Now, having typed all that out, there is nothing stopping you from requesting to talk to your FPSO shop to see if they have any other info that might provide you a "loophole" but, from my read and experience, you'll be where you are until you meet the CFAO requirements for an OT.
A
aesop081
Guest
meni0n said:
Look in the post above yours. Annex A para 2....its even underlined.
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Hi everyone,
I have a question that I was hoping someone would answer. The CFRC has given me mixed responses...
I applied for ROTP pilot, went to air crew selection, and failed. I have now accepted an offer for ACSO, but I would love to take another stab at the flight simulator. I'm starting my PPL shortly and was wondering: is it possible to remuster if you haven't completed any training?
Thanks
I have a question that I was hoping someone would answer. The CFRC has given me mixed responses...
I applied for ROTP pilot, went to air crew selection, and failed. I have now accepted an offer for ACSO, but I would love to take another stab at the flight simulator. I'm starting my PPL shortly and was wondering: is it possible to remuster if you haven't completed any training?
Thanks
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Well, I guess that depends on how you define "any training". I was able to apply for a re-muster during about week 7 or so of IAP (The former first phase of BMOQ). I hadn't completed a single course yet. Our Sgt just put up a list of "high demand" trades, and asked any of us who were interested in switching to one of them to submit a memo. A few weeks later, and poof, I'm a NCSEO instead of an MSEO.
But, of course, this was possible because my re-muster didn't require any additional testing. They sure as heck weren't going to pull me off of basic training to go do an air crew selection. If what you're actually looking for is getting this done before you are enrolled, then that's not a re-muster. After all, you can't change trades if you aren't a trade yet. What it sounds like you're looking to do is receive a different offer than the one you were given. I do rather doubt that would be possible within the timelines required to start ROTP this September. After all, I imagine that all the Pilot positions that are available for September have already been filled by people who qualified the first time around.
The situation that happened to me is unlikely to be able to help you in this. They make it easy for personnel who haven't started their trades training to transfer to high priority occupations. I suspect I'll be long retired before this description applies to Pilot. I can't say for sure, but I suspect that you'll have to go through the entire rigmarole of a full OT selection process, with the training pre-requisites that entails, if you want to be a pilot.
But, of course, this was possible because my re-muster didn't require any additional testing. They sure as heck weren't going to pull me off of basic training to go do an air crew selection. If what you're actually looking for is getting this done before you are enrolled, then that's not a re-muster. After all, you can't change trades if you aren't a trade yet. What it sounds like you're looking to do is receive a different offer than the one you were given. I do rather doubt that would be possible within the timelines required to start ROTP this September. After all, I imagine that all the Pilot positions that are available for September have already been filled by people who qualified the first time around.
The situation that happened to me is unlikely to be able to help you in this. They make it easy for personnel who haven't started their trades training to transfer to high priority occupations. I suspect I'll be long retired before this description applies to Pilot. I can't say for sure, but I suspect that you'll have to go through the entire rigmarole of a full OT selection process, with the training pre-requisites that entails, if you want to be a pilot.
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Thanks for the info.
Your situation does seem to apply in fact. I just accepted my offer for ACSO today and want to do a remuster before I start my occupation training.
It sounds like it's unlikely to succeed as pilot is not a high priority trade, but I assume I'm at least allowed to try.
Your situation does seem to apply in fact. I just accepted my offer for ACSO today and want to do a remuster before I start my occupation training.
It sounds like it's unlikely to succeed as pilot is not a high priority trade, but I assume I'm at least allowed to try.
