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Vehicle Serial Numbers

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ghannah86

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Hi,

First time poster long timer lurker. I recentlly started voluntering at my local military museum. We have a fully restored Iltis, a M113A2 and  leopard C1 with demilitarized turret. I am trying to identify these vehicles and see what history they have with them. On  the leopard it is 78-85XXX on hull and turert cant remember the rest but can run down and grab them. On the side skirts it says 615. On the rear radio box it is 067. I am in terperting 78 as the year it  entered service. Any help in how to read the numbers and decipher would be greatlly appeciated. I am used to a vehicle serial number then 84C on the side or on the turret.
 
Canadian Forces Registration (CFR) for the Leopald would be 78-85XXX. The 78 would be the year it was made and the plate number would be 85XXX.  84C that is on the side of the turrent would most likely be the radio callsign.
 
Now using the plate number is there any way to trace the history of the vehicle? The only other number on this chasis is 067 on the rear radio box.  Using the serial from the iltis and M113A2 would it be the same as the leopard. first 2 digits are the year of manufacturer then the rest are the platernumber?
 
The full CFR for that MBT including the year would be 78-85067. 78 would be the year of introduction to CF inventory, 85 would be the grouping for all Leopard 1 based chassis ie. MBT, AEV, AVBL.
 
ghannah86 said:
Hi,

First time poster long timer lurker. I recentlly started voluntering at my local military museum. We have a fully restored Iltis, a M113A2 and  leopard C1 with demilitarized turret. I am trying to identify these vehicles and see what history they have with them. On  the leopard it is 78-85XXX on hull and turert cant remember the rest but can run down and grab them. On the side skirts it says 615. On the rear radio box it is 067. I am in terperting 78 as the year it  entered service. Any help in how to read the numbers and decipher would be greatlly appeciated. I am used to a vehicle serial number then 84C on the side or on the turret.
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There should be no numbers on the sideskirts.  I have no idea what you are refering to when you say rear radio box.  The Call Sign (C/S) would be marked on the rear of the turret and on the two stowage bins near the exhaust.  There is also be a C/S on the large tool box on the rear of the vehicle.  The CFR will be painted on the front and rear of the vehicle as well it may be found under the Maple Leaf on both sides of the turret up front.  You would usually find a "name" on the turret in place of the CFR under the Maple Leaf.

Call Signs would be alphanumeric with two numbers and a letter (A, B or C).  The C/S would identify A, B, or C Sqn and start with a 1, 2 or 3.  The second number would represent the Troop.  The Troop Leaders would not have letters in their C/S.

The Troop Leader of Three Troop of A Sqn would be 13.  The Troop WO of Four Troop C Sqn would be 34A.  The Dozer tank of B sqn would be 26.  The OC of B would be 2.

 
I will take some pics and post them and look for further numbers. Is their any centreal database available to the public that I can run the plate through to find out the history of the vehicle. The problem with this tank is it was used in movies and the turret is not a full leopard turret. It has been cut and only the lower half is left. The upper half including the gun has been repalced with a custom build possiblly for the mvoies it was used in. The radio box I am refering to is on the right rear of the tank that would contain the telephone for the infantry to talk to the tank. I dont remember seeing any callsign on the toolboxes but I will try and take some pictures tomorrow. My next quest is try and find the serial numbers ont he M113A2 and Illtis as they have been repainted. The M113A2 doesnt even have an engine for me to pull a serial number from.
 
The serial number on the power pack would do you no good in any case.  Power packs were frequently replaced and are not matched to particular hull.

What you need to find is a metal data plate somewhere inside.  It will give you serial number.

Not that that will do you much good, as there are probably no records on where a particular vehicle serial number was used.

Your best bet is to find painted call signs on the vehicle body- at least the call sign will tell you how a vehicle was used in a particular unit.
 
ghannah86 said:
I will take some pics and post them and look for further numbers. Is their any centreal database available to the public that I can run the plate through to find out the history of the vehicle. The problem with this tank is it was used in movies and the turret is not a full leopard turret. It has been cut and only the lower half is left. The upper half including the gun has been repalced with a custom build possiblly for the mvoies it was used in. The radio box I am refering to is on the right rear of the tank that would contain the telephone for the infantry to talk to the tank. I dont remember seeing any callsign on the toolboxes but I will try and take some pictures tomorrow. My next quest is try and find the serial numbers ont he M113A2 and Illtis as they have been repainted. The M113A2 doesnt even have an engine for me to pull a serial number from.
Click to expand...

There is no Database available to the public. However, some CF/DND folks can access various databases that may contain some history on vehicles relating to past Holding Units, Modifications, Repairs/Rebuilds and Disposal/Auction info.

The Iltis is easy, the CFR is actually the last 7 digits of the Serial Number on the dash Dataplate. Any Call Signs would have been stenciled on the Body just below and in front of the Mirrors on the side of the Body. Tac Signs were usually stenciled on the rear Bumperettes and on the lower drivers side of the Windshield Frame. Careful sanding or use of a heat gun is your friend for lifting paint to uncover markings.

M113 CFRs were usually stenciled/painted right below the Wire Cutter on the side of the Hull closest to the Drivers Hatch. Some careful sanding should reveal it. I seem to remember the Serial Number being stamped somewhere on the Hull. Although a bit of a dig, the Serial Number can be used to determine the CFR, and then of course the subsequent info I mentioned above. Call Signs would have been on both sides. Tac Signs would have been on the rear left below the Tail Lamp, and the front left or right of the Hull just up from the flat portion above the Final Drives.

I realize that the 113 is Engineless, but FYI, unlike most cars, any Serial Numbers pulled from Powerpacks etc on Military Vehicles will not reveal any history and except for stuff like Generators etc, are not searchable in the Databases. Reason being, (Can't speak for the Leopard mind you), but I recall our M113 going through at least 2 rebuilds just in my few years riding in it. It served for well over 30 years so you can do the math on the likelyhood of any Engines being original :) 

Lastly, pics are everything. Anything showing Tac Signs, Call Signs, Numbers, Emblems will all tell a great deal about the Vehicle.
 
Once you find your Serial Numbers/CFRs, you can post them on Maple Leaf Up and someone may be able to help you out with some Holding Unit History:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14402&page=7
 
A caution on sanding any paint on a Cdn military vehicle- it is extremely carcinogenic in particle form.

Don't do it unless you are in a properly equipped shop, with the right protective gear.
 
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