VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight

[PuckChaser]

Correct me if I am wrong but the timeline I read would put the accusations as having happened during is tenure as CRCN; not when he was appointed VCDS.  So his RCN-tinted glasses would be fully understandable.

He was upset enough to take the job as VCDS? Maybe he thought he'd be able to make changes from the 2nd highest position in the CAF? The Trudeau Government took over in November 2015 and quickly put the project on hold, but Norman was appointed VCDS in January 2016. His comments quoted in the CTV article don't have a date, but that's a pretty quick flash to bang.

I'm not trying to call his character into question, but political interference has been a way of life in military procurement since the 1960s and the Avro Arrow. Norman should have figured that out well before even becoming an Admiral. It shouldn't have been news to him, he served in the RCN during the EH101 debacle.

 

[FSTO]

The barrack room lawyer in me concurs with your assessment on element 5 of the charge, OGBD.

I had to chuckle a little bit about him being unable to take the political interference anymore about the supply ships. The political interference for Fighter Replacement, FWSAR, etc must have been good to go, or he failed to remove his RCN-tinted glasses when taking over as the VCDS for all elements.

This all started while he was CRCN, so yes his RCN tinted glasses were in effect.

 

[Kirkhill]

The two journalists who received the leaked Irving letters, which outlined the company's objections, have since been hired by the Liberal government.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/admiral-shipbuilding-investigation-1.4057763

Ahem! The Admiral is left to twist and the reporters get hired.  With one of them hired by Sajjan himself?  I sense Senate seats in the offing.

 

[George Wallace]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/admiral-shipbuilding-investigation-1.4057763

Ahem! The Admiral is left to twist and the reporters get hired.  With one of them hired by Sajjan himself?  I sense Senate seats in the offing.

I must say, that BLUF really makes one ponder the politics of this case.

 

[Halifax Tar]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/admiral-shipbuilding-investigation-1.4057763

Ahem! The Admiral is left to twist and the reporters get hired.  With one of them hired by Sajjan himself?  I sense Senate seats in the offing.

I have to say, if all that came out today is true, this really changes things...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have to wonder that with him facing criminal charges, he is likely to mention a lot of things during the trial that will not place the Liberals in a good light. I wonder if they are hoping he will plea bargain so it does not actually get to trial?

 

[FSTO]

I have to say, if all that came out today is true, this really changes things...

Change what?
That our political masters have no clue what to do about National Defence? That there is no such thing as a coherent and enduring Foreign Policy Directive that tailors our equipment requirements to our actual needs?

I really hope that this whole putrid sack of shyte called Defence Procurement gets opened to the light of day. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Is it just me, or is anybody else wondering how, somehow, letters from a private citizen, James Irving, on behalf of a private company, Irving Shipbuilding, addressed to various ministers of the crown (and one as their MP) asking the government to reconsider a decision already made suddenly become "confidential cabinet documents"?

These are not working papers of the cabinet, they are letters from Canadians at large (regardless of the stature of the Irving and their companies), and as such, are subject to full release under access to information act. How can they suddenly become covered by privilege? And how is their release a criminal infraction?

This is starting to look like a witch hunt for the sole purpose of protecting the Irving and the large funds they undoubtedly manage to funnel into the Liberal coffers regardless of the law (which has never stopped the Liberals before).

my 2c.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Is it just me, or is anybody else wondering how, somehow, letters from a private citizen, James Irving, on behalf of a private company, Irving Shipbuilding, addressed to various ministers of the crown (and one as their MP) asking the government to reconsider a decision already made suddenly become "confidential cabinet documents"? ...

Methinks these wouldn't be exactly the naughtiest bits of information that made their way out under the door.

 

[Kirkhill]

Is it just me, or is anybody else wondering how, somehow, letters from a private citizen, James Irving, on behalf of a private company, Irving Shipbuilding, addressed to various ministers of the crown (and one as their MP) asking the government to reconsider a decision already made suddenly become "confidential cabinet documents"?

...

Isn't that one of our rights?  The right to petition the King?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Change what?
That our political masters have no clue what to do about National Defence? That there is no such thing as a coherent and enduring Foreign Policy Directive that tailors our equipment requirements to our actual needs?

I really hope that this whole putrid sack of shyte called Defence Procurement gets opened to the light of day. But I'm not holding my breath.

Easy kid we're on the same team.

My intent was that this story originally came out and intended to paint Admiral Norman in a poor light, now it seems to have morphed into one of his defense. 

 

[FSTO]

Easy kid we're on the same team.

My intent was that this story originally came out and intended to paint Admiral Norman in a poor light, now it seems to have morphed into one of his defense.

Ah I see what you did there.

Anyway, I hope this goes to court because Norman's Lawyer will shred the government.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Isn't that one of our rights?  The right to petition the King?

Absolutely. Which is why any such letters or petition are part of the official - public - correspondence of the ministers. Not "confidential cabinet documents", a category that is meant to protect deliberations and documents required for the purpose of deliberating, such as briefs on the topics at issue, draft policies or draft orders in council up for review and discussions, policy papers up for review, etc.

Such a fundamental right that I am currently in the process of drafting a nice long letter to my MP, who happens to be Liberal but a backbencher, to ask him to get off his legendary behind, stand for what he was elected for (holding government accountable), and do his part to stop the government current attempt at emaciating the powers of Parliament yet again through rules reform nobody asked for, in favour of even less oversight. 

 

[observor 69]

So Vice Admiral Mark Norman has hired defence lawyer Marie Henein.
Having watched her at work in the trail of Jian Ghomeshi I would expect a skilled aggressive defence.
As per previous postings she may have a sound legal basis to attack from.
The Vice Admiral can expect the lawyer he chose will provide a strong competent defence against the charges.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Ah I see what you did there.

Anyway, I hope this goes to court because Norman's Lawyer will shred the government by showing he was acting for the good of the nation and how the harebrained secret actions of the government work against the public good but in favour of the governing party's sole interest.

Fixed that for you.  [

 

[FSTO]

Fixed that for you.  [

 

[George Wallace]

From CTV:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/correspondence-shows-norman-angered-by-attempted-political-interference-in-shipbuilding-contract-1.3356844#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=EQDdGWF

CTVNews.ca Staff
Published Wednesday, April 5, 2017 11:55PM EDT
Last Updated Thursday, April 6, 2017 10:16AM EDT

Correspondence obtained by CTV News shows Vice-Admiral Mark Norman had considered resigning over attempted political interference in a shipbuilding contract by Irving Shipyards, before he was ultimately removed from his duties.

Norman was the vice chief of the defence staff when Chief of the Defence Staff Jonathan Vance temporarily removed him from his duties on Jan. 9. The military has never provided an explanation for Norman’s suspension.

Sources say Irving wrote to multiple cabinet ministers in the newly minted Liberal government in November of 2015, trying to scuttle a multimillion dollar plan to rebuild a desperately needed supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy that had been awarded to competitor Davie Shipyards.

Expressing his frustration, Norman wrote: “This is sole [sic] destroying. I might be prepared to resign over this. I can't keep playing along much longer.”

Documents related to the procurement plan, known as Project Resolve, were leaked to media and the defence industry. CTV News has learned that the leaks prompted an RCMP probe, which led to Norman’s suspension.

The ongoing probe is being carried out by the Sensitive and International Investigations unit, which deals with politically sensitive cases.

Sources say Mounties descended on Norman's home at about 7:30 a.m. on January 9, surprising the admiral and his wife as they were about to leave for work. RCMP officers blocked Norman’s vehicle in his driveway.

The RCMP had a warrant for all electronic devices in the home. They seized mobile phones and computers from Norman and his wife, and those items are still in police custody.

Fifteen months after the investigation began, the RCMP has laid no charges and is still interviewing people, including government officials and lobbyists in Ottawa.

One of the reporters who received leaked information is now serving in the defence minister's office and works closely on the shipbuilding file.

Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan’s office refused to comment on departmental staffing and said the minister stands by Norman’s suspension.

Sources say Norman is not being investigated for breaching national security or seeking financial gain. Those close to him say he’s being scapegoated.

In a statement to CTV News, Irving said they did not contact the RCMP, nor have they been contacted. They did not respond to questions about alleged attempts to lobby the government on the shipbuilding issue.

With a report from CTV’s Mercedes Stephenson in Ottawa

 

[Good2Golf]

Is it just me, or is anybody else wondering how, somehow, letters from a private citizen, James Irving, on behalf of a private company, Irving Shipbuilding, addressed to various ministers of the crown (and one as their MP) asking the government to reconsider a decision already made suddenly become "confidential cabinet documents"?

These are not working papers of the cabinet, they are letters from Canadians at large (regardless of the stature of the Irving and their companies), and as such, are subject to full release under access to information act. How can they suddenly become covered by privilege? And how is their release a criminal infraction?

Good question indeed.  The letter would/should be public record.  If internal Government assessment meant to provide recommendations to Cabinet as to how best address the situation (i.e. Cabinet Confidential) were leaked, that would be an issue.  Has the actual letter from Irving to Foote/Sajan/Brison/Morneau ever been published, or at least ATI'd?

Regards
G2G

 

[McG]

Is it just me, or is anybody else wondering how, somehow, letters from a private citizen, James Irving, on behalf of a private company, Irving Shipbuilding, addressed to various ministers of the crown (and one as their MP) asking the government to reconsider a decision already made suddenly become "confidential cabinet documents"?

I saw the letters discussed in news articles, but I must have missed the claim that the letters are what was leaked.  Did you see that in the article, or is this something that you inferred?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The CBC article cited by Chris look would seem to indicate that it was those Irving letters that were leaked to the press and started the leak investigation. That's what I was referring to. If CBC is not accurate (a distinct possibility  ;D), then my whole point falls.