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US plans to shut out canadian defence firms

McInnes

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U.S. plans to shut out Canadian defence firms
‘Buy-America‘ policy could cost industry billions, spark layoffs

Norma Greenaway

The Ottawa Citizen

Sweeping "Buy-America" provisions in proposed U.S. defence-spending legislation could cost Canadian defence and aerospace companies billions of dollars in lost contracts and throw thousands of their employees out of work, Canadian and U.S. industry officials warn.

A provision also would end Canada‘s special status as a member of the U.S. National Technology and Industrial Base under which it is not treated as a foreign country for defence procurement purposes.

Norbert Cyr, spokesman for the Canadian Defence Industries Association, said the sector has been on high alert over the effort to "put a line through the Canadian exemption" and now is working closely with the Canadian government, the Canadian Embassy in Washington, and supportive U.S. industry groups to try to quash the initiative.

The effort comes as Canada is already battling a U.S. import ban on Canadian cattle and penalties on U.S. imports of softwood lumber.

The defence proposal, already approved by the U.S. House of Representatives, would require "critical" components of most military systems be acquired from U.S. sources; raise the required "domestic content" in a military system‘s labour and materials to 65 per cent from 50 per cent; and require major defence acquisition programs use only machine tools made in the U.S.

Mr. Cyr said the measures, if implemented, could result in layoffs of 13,000 to 20,000 defence-industry workers, most of them in high-technology jobs in Ontario and Quebec.

Officials estimated Canada sells more than $3 billion worth of goods and services to the U.S. defence industry each year, including high-tech communications systems, armoured personnel carriers, sensor systems, and aircraft landing systems.

They also said it puts at risk billions of dollars in potential revenues from a joint project with the U.S. and Britain in which the three are working together to develop the next generation of military fighter aircraft.

Canadian and U.S. industry officials trace what some described as the "protectionist" move, spearheaded by Republican congressman Duncan Hunter of California, to a combination of factors.

They acknowledge heightened concern in some U.S. circles over protecting the country‘s economic and security interests in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. They also note all foreign suppliers, not just Canada, would be affected by the "Buy-America" provisions.

Nevertheless, they suggest support for stripping Canada of its longstanding special exemption from procurement rules could be fuelled in part by irritation over things such as Canada‘s refusal to join the U.S.-led war against Iraq and statements made by members of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien‘s government that were critical of U.S. President George W. Bush.

"We‘ve done things in the past that have bugged them," Mr. Cyr said. "All that adds to the atmosphere. It serves the purposes of those who wish to take some action against Canada."

The provisions are contained in proposed legislation, approved by the House of Representatives, that is designed to authorize about $400 billion in defence spending for the fiscal year beginning Oct. 1.

Mr. Hunter, chairman of the House of Representatives‘ armed services committee, led the effort to have the more stringent rules inserted in the legislation, which was approved in late May. The U.S. Senate subsequently passed its own version of the defence spending legislation and it did not contain the "Buy-America" provisions sought by the House.

The two ruling bodies must now reconcile their respective versions, a process that promises weeks of intensive negotiations during which the lobbying for and against the more stringent contracting rules will be fierce.
 
Well, no, they‘re not taking *punitive* action...after all, the exemption was a special deal...you‘re just not getting special treatment any more...

Oh yes, and the SARS warnings are only to protect our citizens...we‘re not going out of our way to punish Canada.

And they‘re not *punishing* us at all. They‘re just not going out of their way to make nice to us as they have done in the past. We haven‘t been grounded they‘re just not buying us ice cream... ;)
 
Besides, they have every right to ban whatever products and services they wish, unfortunately. After stating we would not join the war on Iraq, and then proceeding to ask the United States to change their ways because we want them to - seems a little hypocritical :)

Canada‘s economy is doomed if we don‘t stop relying on the United States as our #1, by far, economic partner. Many current politicians down there seem to have a desire to just "close the gates" and hibernate from the world, which is fine if that‘s what they wish. But we shouldn‘t be getting thrown around because of it.

It proves we need to start making some changes to our economy. True, there‘s no way we‘ll be able to compete with the $2-an-hour labour in other foreign nations, but Canada has its strengths. We just need to start playing our cards a little better.
 
On trading partners...

It‘ll be bloody hard to find another nation as proximal, as wealthy, as culturally similar, etc.

Militarily, we need to remain focused on interoperability with the U.S. so the CF can enable capabilities not facilitated by meagre expenditures. A solid trade partnership helps realize this. Chretien stepped in his ‘poutine‘ by so openly censuring Bush, the American economy, and American foreign policy.

A better statesman may have implied his disapproval but ultimately expressed support for a sister nation. The reality is that Chretien‘s support was shown by way of a reluctant apology. That‘s just my opinion, but I could be wrong.

Cheers.
 
I‘d have to agree - if we handled things a little more diplomatically, we‘d be in much better shape.
And I also agree that it would be extremely difficult to find someone other than the United States.

But if they don‘t cut us off now, they might 5 years down the road. Or 10. Who knows. We might as well take a stab at trying to at least diversify our economy a little more. Then, god forbid something happens to our biggest trading partner, we‘re not completely devastated.

I don‘t know how many times I‘ve heard a business owner say they‘re within spitting range of bankruptcy, because no Americans want to do business with a Canadian anymore. It‘s saddening.
 
We‘re in a tough spot, for sure... they‘re all devils, but maybe a fellow like Martin can do something business-savvy that‘ll diversify our foreign economic interests. (Oh, and dump truck-loads of cash into the CF. What‘s REALLY wrong with a military-industrial complex?)

Cheers.

P.S.
Good luck on the PT test, Cycophant. Hint: do one extra push-up for the Queen, and one for the CF.
 
Maybe give all the excess parts, materials and munitions to OUR army instead? I think this is a good development. It will teach our government to act more independent in the future, so we don‘t rely so much on the dam unreliable yanks...
 
Well
We only traded 40% with the US up to the 50s. 60% to the 80s now 80-90%. Our Dollar was 1.25$ til about 76. We had and have a better standard of living. We do it to ourselves. ****, cut of Churchill Falls, Water supply, The Alaska pipe line, and road to it. Prevent ever Europe bound US air craft flying over Canada. ETCETC. Canadians, WE do have the US buy the balls buddies. We just don‘t do anything about it. Wakeup! France ,Germany would love to trade with us. To ship by boat is the same now as by truck.
 
Perhaps getting out of NAFTA would be a step in the right direction; it‘s no good being plundered out of resources that other countries might want as well.
 
Folk‘s don‘t worry,the U.S. relies so much on Canadian Technology this subject is nul and void.

If they tried it,quite a bit of their advanced weapon‘s system‘s,never mind the navigation system‘s their ship‘s have will come to a grinding halt.

Were I live there is a company who design‘s the Navigation System‘s for the U.S.Navy.

So don‘t worry.
 
Mulroney.

I like him as much as I like a hot casing in my shorts.
 
"Mulroney.

I like him as much as I like a hot casing in my shorts."

or a root canal
 
I saw more coverage of this proposed legislation on CNN tonight. There wasn‘t much there, just an interview with one of the Senators who is backing the bill.

I can partly see their reasoning behind doing it. We, as Canadians, are all terribly frustrated at the prospect of losing lots of big business to places like Asia or Mexico, where labour is ten times cheaper. If we could find a legitimate way of slowing this process, we would probably do it. That‘s mostly what they‘re doing.

Mind you, tied into this bill is probably the idea that they believe they are snubbing all those nations that have not supported them as of late. We‘ll see if any British military plans get accepted in the near future. Time shall tell. :)
 
There was a dirty word in realpolitik that described a country that was not just incredibly in fear and awe of another, but anticipated its demands. It was called ‘Finlandization‘. This is even more true in Canada, and although our governments bravely attempted a strong economic, military and foreign policy, the socialists voted against it.
When your neighbour is the elephant in terms of unprecedented cultural, economic and military ascendence and you are the flea, it‘s hard to be independent.
The fact of the matter is that the US can attract all our best talent paid for with our socialist education system and leave the rest (not necessarily the losers, but not the best) to continue to believe our health care system is the best.
Put bluntly, the US supports success, Canada (and the EU) support failure.
 
Frankly I‘m shocked that your supply of oscillators for JDAMs was at such an eroded state! I hope that situation has been corrected. Further, it‘s amusing that MREs are stocked up to three years in advance, yet sophisticated electronics are only stocked up to a six month demand schedule.
But seriously, folks. Your views on ‘buying American‘ in order to secure stocks is the thin edge of the wedge of rampant protectionism, and could theoretically apply to anything depending on the government. I must assume that you support our dairy boards and wheat marketing boards then, as a home grown food industry is definitely in the best interests of Canadians. I also guess that you wouldn‘t mind us subsidizing our steel companies, even though they undercut yours.
What are your views on free trade and the principles of the WTO?
Free traders and protectionists alike - be careful what you ask for - you may not like it!
 
Thanks for that Sherwood...

Moving on...

I agree with Recce41, I think we can think beyond the box and focus our defense trade elsewhere. There may be better kickbacks for our fledging defense firms anyway.
 
I don‘t know whether I can agree with Spr Earl‘s statement that the US relies on us to the point they would not dare cut us off (or out).

When the US realized that Japan threatened access to its oil supplies in the far east, it quietly began preparing for war (Pearl Harbour saved them from being labelled the aggressor). When it lost its access to the rubber fields of the far east in 1941, within a year they had developed synthetic rubber. When Russia beat them into space, it was not long before Americans walked on the moon.

Canadians seem to forget that when the crunch comes, nations will act in their own self interest. If Canada attempts to strong-arm the Americans, we will quickly find out how much we really count and who "carries the big stick". If what we have is really in the urgent national interest of the US, you can count on them to obtain whatever they want, no matter. In plain language, they will take it, either through outright physical force or inducing political regime change. And don‘t expect France to come to our aid (unless it‘s in their national interest - even if it is to muddy the situation)!

We really have done a good job in brainwashing ourselves into thinking that we really are so relevant to the rest of the world that we really matter.

There are a lot of changes needed in Canada, and we should begin by having a healthier understanding as to who we are, what our national and international objectives are and the positive things we need to do to attain them.

We also have to get rid of those "holier than thou" and "goodie two-shoes" attitudes that permeats our society especially when we compare ourselves to the US.

We also have to realize that political entities do not last for eternities. The Persian, Greek, Roman, French, German and British empires are history. Boundaries change, political realities change. It is not unreasonable to forecast a change in political organization of North America, and believe me, California (or Florida, or Ohio, etc) will not be adopting a parliamentary form of government.

I suspect that in the next 50-75 years there will be major changes in the western world, many of them unthinkable today. Europe will become more unified and isolated; Israel will disappear when the American empire loses interest in its existence; there will be one North American nation stretching from Panama north; and China will become the major international superpower.
 
sorry, but i‘m curious on why China will be the major international superpower. would you be able to explain that? :rolleyes:
 
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