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U.S. 2012 Election

On Nov 6 Who Will Win President Obama or Mitt Romney ?

  • President Obama

    Votes: 39 61.9%
  • Mitt Romney

    Votes: 24 38.1%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .
Ironically a commie may have done a better job than Obama. A commie would not have bailed out the banks. They would know that you could have have bought them for the same amount of money. Then all the interest paid on mortgages would become TAXES.  The biggest and most painless tax hike in American history. There would be no deficit or spending cuts. This new revenue stream would have shored up government spending and spurred private sector growth.

:moose: Half kidding.
 
>Obama makes Reagan look like Jimmy Carter.

Please expand your thesis.  I'm curious to learn whether that is more than just a throwaway line.
 
Nemo888 said:
Then you have drunk the kool aid and probably never read Marx in your life. That is so absolutely absurd as to be laughable. It's a pathetic sound bite that has no proof what so ever behind it.

Obama is moderate and much further right than the Canadian Conservative Prime Minister.

When you get around to reading Obama's Dreams, you might have a hard time reconciling your statement with Obama's own description of how much he grew up and learned while attending lectures from hardcore Marxist professors and attending the rallies and joining the Clubs  at Occidental, the most Marxist friendly university in the USA.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/who-were-barack-obamas-marxist-professors/?singlepage=true

And he was a New Party member.


Somehow I don't think his background and current political philosophy is to the right of PMSH and his education certainly is certainly far, far more Leftist.  And I haven't heard about PM Harper having a card carrying member forge Communist Party of the USA as his mentor during his formative teen years.

But everyone gets to believe that which they chose to . . . . 

 
I read an article the other day which offered to exchange President Obama for Prime Minister Harper. I would take the deal,but I wonder if Canadians would make the swap ?

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/13/ita-a-no-brainer-trade-harper-for-obama-pm-has-the-anointed-one-beat-hands-down
 
CDN Aviator said:
DNC gaffe......

:rofl:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/09/navy-russian-warships-displayed-dnc-veterans-tribute-091112/

Now, the "Turkish Stars" jet team makes an apearance...........

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/17/fighter-jets-in-democratic-conventions-military-montage-were-turkish-not-american/

Fighter jets in Democratic convention’s military montage were Turkish, not American


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/17/fighter-jets-in-democratic-conventions-military-montage-were-turkish-not-american/#ixzz26mwdwt6Q

The Democratic Party’s national convention in Charlotte, N.C., may have doubled down on insulting the U.S. military community.

The Democratic National Committee has already apologized for using a photo of four Soviet-era Russian warships in a giant stage backdrop intended to illustrate the party’s support for military personnel and veterans.

That huge image, visible in the Time Warner Cable Arena during speeches by Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry and retired Admiral John B. Nathman, also depicted a synchronized formation of jet aircraft that convention-goers assumed were American fighter planes.

But the F-5 fighter planes in the photo are part of the air force of Turkey, a nation whose government is now jailing journalists and establishing Islam as a state religion.

Brad Woodhouse, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee, did not respond when the The Daily Caller asked why the convention planners displayed Turkish-flown aircraft alongside Russian warships while seeking support from the American military community.

On Sept. 12, Democrats apologized for using the picture of Soviet-era, Russian-operated ships after the slip up was first reported by the Navy Times. The Navy Times also received a tip that the planes depicted may have been from the Turkish Air Force. (NAVAL EXPERT: Ships shown during Democratic convention tribute to veterans were Russian)

The vessels, with their distinct radars and blue-cross-motif Russian naval flags, occupied the center of the massive backdrop. The aircraft were depicted flying in a seven-plane formation on the upper right.
 
tomahawk6 said:
Today's Democrat Party platform has many similarities with the Communist Party USA.

List them. In detailed form, please.
 
Brad Sallows said:
>Obama makes Reagan look like Jimmy Carter.

Please expand your thesis.  I'm curious to learn whether that is more than just a throwaway line.

Reagan wanted to tax capital gains at the same rate as income tax. Reagan increased taxes and spending(stimulus) to combat a recession in 1982. Reagan improved the solvency of social security at Democratic urgings and acted in a bipartisan manner to increase revenues. At the end of his administration he passed the Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act and raised taxes to pay for it. It was repealed by Bush Sr for being too socialist. Though Reagan lowered taxes quite a bit one time he raised them on roughly ten occasions. He did not balance the budget and was still in deficit when he left office. Most of his tax increases were on the top 10%. He greatly increased government spending and brought in over 60% more total tax revenues by overheating the economy while increasing the marginal tax rate less than 3%. Even though he took in 60% more total revenue he grew the national debt by 11%.

When a Lebanese marine base was bombed he left the country. That's right, Reagan's solution was to cut and run. He pressured Ferdinand Marcos to step down. He supported the unionist Solidarity movement in Poland. He tried to transition our dictators to democracies in Bolivia, Honduras, Argentine and Brazil. He placated Iran by not just selling them arms but donating them, though of course he was doing the same with Iraq.

At the end of Reagan's term taxes were 18% of GDP. Under Obama it is down to 14.8%. Obama extended the Bush tax cuts on the rich. Obama reduced Social Securities revenues by 105 billion a year. Obama wanted to decrease capital gains taxes on small business to ZERO. Obama passed the National Defense Authorization Act which allows indefinite detention of US citizens by the military. After being struck down 3 times by judges the Obama administration is appealing again. He has refuse to restore habeas corpus, used the espionage act 6 times on whistle blowers, kept Gitmo open and started assassinating US citizens abroad. Obama gets more donations than any other Pres in history. Not from commies. From Wall Street. One of Regan's largest initial donors was the Teamster's Union. Obama even took over 118,000$ from Bain Capital this election. He is a Wall Street lap dog, not a rabid commie. It's obvious his policies are further right than Reagan.
 
This is an entertaining read. In 2010 the CPUSA sued the Democrats for stealing their platform. ;D
Not alot is different in 2012.The democrats did try to eliminate God and Jerusalem from the platform but they didnt want to be labeled Godless or ant-Israel [although they are].

http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/communists-sue-democratic-party-for-stealing-platform-t5149.html
 
tomahawk6 said:
This is an entertaining read. In 2010 the CPUSA sued the Democrats for stealing their platform. ;D
Not alot is different in 2012.The democrats did try to eliminate God and Jerusalem from the platform but they didnt want to be labeled Godless or ant-Israel [although they are].

http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/communists-sue-democratic-party-for-stealing-platform-t5149.html

Still waiting. CPUSA's platform is readily available on the Internet. You can have a read quite easily. You'll find it is in no way similar. I don't recall the DNC calling for nationalization of banks, railroads, or anything else. I don't seem to find anything in their policies about class struggles or anything else. Funny enough, there's nothing "anti-God" in CPUSA's platform that I saw, and while the Democrats didn't actually remove references to gods from anything, I suspect at lot of them would see getting religion out of politics as a step forward for any country. But they defer to those who don't, and that's fine.

As for Jerusalem, that's a red herring. The United States, and virtually no other country in the world recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. That's while you'll find embassies is Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. Neither party in the US is likely to change that, either.

On a more amusing note, how about that series of own goals by Romney in those videos that have surfaced? Expect those to be heavily publicized for the next few weeks. At this rate, I have to wonder when Obama For America is going to offer Mr. Romney a job.
 
Redeye said:
Still waiting. CPUSA's platform is readily available on the Internet. You can have a read quite easily. You'll find it is in no way similar. I don't recall the DNC calling for nationalization of banks, railroads, or anything else. I don't seem to find anything in their policies about class struggles or anything else. Funny enough, there's nothing "anti-God" in CPUSA's platform that I saw, and while the Democrats didn't actually remove references to gods from anything, I suspect at lot of them would see getting religion out of politics as a step forward for any country. But they defer to those who don't, and that's fine.

As for Jerusalem, that's an idiotic red herring. The United States, and virtually no other country in the world recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. That's while you'll find embassies is Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. Neither party in the US is likely to change that, either.

On a more amusing note, how about that series of own goals by Romney in those videos that have surfaced? Expect those to be heavily publicized for the next few weeks. At this rate, I have to wonder when Obama For America is going to offer Mr. Romney a job.

It MAY be a red herring, but there's no need for 'idiotic'.

I'm getting tired of these warnings.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
Actually Romney's figures are correct.There are that many americans who pay no tax at all. As I have stated before under this President more people are on social security disability and food stamps than at any time in the past. Obama recently eliminated the requirement for those on welfare to find work,which was instituted under Clinton.
 
Meanwhile, back on the campaign, the American MSM finds a new distraction to hyperventilate over as Romney simply speaks the truth about American voters.

Meanwhile, the Muslim world burns with anger and hatred for America.

Remember when Obama said this:

"I truly believe that the day I'm inaugurated, the [Muslim] world looks at America differently"

Can't fault Obama for telling the truth. 
 
Redeye, cupper are you going to vote in the US election?

Every vote counts and Obama will need your vote.
 
tomahawk6 said:
Actually Romney's figures are correct.There are that many americans who pay no tax at all. As I have stated before under this President more people are on social security disability and food stamps than at any time in the past. Obama recently eliminated the requirement for those on welfare to find work,which was instituted under Clinton.

Whether Romney's numbers are correct or not is irrelevant. It's what he said about them that will resonate. Funny enough, I seem to recall a guy who thought working families being off the tax roll was a good thing. Reagan, I think his name was. That's not the only gaffe in that priceless video, though. The whole thing about Palestine is also showing what was becoming clear to a lot of observers about Governor Romney, that he's out of his depth on foreign policy.

And just for good measure, President Obama eliminating the requirement for those on welfare to find work? Well, that's simply not true, regardless of who says it.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/07/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/28/rick-santorum/Santorum-Romney-claim-Obama-ending-welfare-work/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/spin-and-counterspin-in-the-welfare-debate/2012/08/07/61bf03b6-e0e3-11e1-8fc5-a7dcf1fc161d_blog.html

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/

It's no wonder Governor Romney had a guy on his campaign team say they won't let fact checkers run their campaign. They can't afford to, since they're lying so much. However, they're also being caught out on it.

They lie about the "apology tour" that never happened.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/31/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-said-barack-obama-began-his-presidency/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/mar/15/mitt-romney/obama-remarks-never-true-apology/

They lie about the effort to make sure more Ohioans could vote (I've never understood how anyone could buy this one!)

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2012/aug/06/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-lawsuit-filed-president-obamas-ca/

They grievously misrepresented what President Obama said in the "you didn't build that" speech (though I love that during the RNC their "We built this!" sign was right underneath the National Debt Counter, most of which they're responsible for.)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney/putting-mitt-romneys-attacks-you-didnt-build-truth/

They lie about their plans for Obamacare and Medicare.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/08/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-repeats-claim-repealing-health-law-sav/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obamacare-adds-trillions-deficit/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/09/mitt-romney/health-law-puts-government-between-patients-and-do/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/29/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obamacare-means-20-million-americ/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/12/mitt-romney/romney-says-only-obama-has-cut-medicare/

Now, fair to say that fact checkers have hit President Obama hard too - though with far less Pants On Fire lies, and most not recent, but I expect that excerpts of the video will factor heavily in the President's campaign over the next few weeks, and it seems a lot of conservatives do too - David Frum in particular has been producing some excellent criticism, but the campaign in general is getting shredded.
 
OK FOLKS,  LET ME SPELL THIS OUT FOR EVERYONE. 

IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE POSTED HERE BY ANY OF THE USUAL SUSPECTS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM THAT IS AT ALL DEROGITORY I WILL LOCK THIS THREAD AND ANY THAT START AFTERWARDS UNTIL THE ELECTION IS OVER.


.................and I must add, I will enjoy it.
 
Rifleman62 said:
Redeye, cupper are you going to vote in the US election?

Every vote counts and Obama will need your vote.

No, I can't. My wife can, and will, and is involved in helping overseas voters do so. I will be in the US around election time, and may well volunteer to help get out the vote, as doing so is perfectly legal under US law. I do have to make sure it's kosher under Canadian law, but I can't see anything that suggests it isn't. But I'll also be on vacation and probably have better things to do. Like celebrate on the night of November 6th, when if all goes according to plan, I'll be in New Orleans, probably a good place for it.
 
Redeye said:
Whether Romney's numbers are correct or not is irrelevant. It's what he said about them that will resonate. Funny enough, I seem to recall a guy who thought working families being off the tax roll was a good thing. Reagan, I think his name was. That's not the only gaffe in that priceless video, though. The whole thing about Palestine is also showing what was becoming clear to a lot of observers about Governor Romney, that he's out of his depth on foreign policy.

...


You're quite right: the 30% who weren't going to vote for Mitt Romney anyway, under any circumstances, will now be secure in their view. The 30% who would vote for Romney no matter what will also have their views confirmed. The Big Question is: how do the other 40% feel? Do they share Romney's view that the Palestinians do not want peace? Do they agree that too many Americans are taking, taking, taking ... taking too much?

I don't know, but I suspect that Romney will get more "yeas" than "nays" on those two points.

Both President Obama and Governor Romney are out of their depths on foreign policy, but I doubt that the latter would be any worse than the former.

Finally: Prime Minister Netanyahu is being rude ~ it is unseemly for a foreign head of government to intrude, publicly, into the American political process.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Finally: Prime Minister Netanyahu is being rude ~ it is unseemly for a foreign head of government to intrude, publicly, into the American political process.

Agree completely, but it's playing into the completely fictitious "Obama hates Israel" meme. Netanyahu seems to be angling for America to fight a war for him, a war for which he has little support at home.
 
Kim Campbell was pilloried for saying that an election campaign isn't the time to discuss policy, in the US it seems the Media has swallowed that trope whole. The interesting point isn't what Governor Romney said, but the fact that he has said essentially the same thing throughout the campaign without it being an issue. Timing?:

http://reason.com/blog/2012/09/18/secret-romney-tape-means-we-can-finally

Secret Romney Tape Means We Can Finally Stop Talking About Obama's Failed Foreign & Domestic Policy!
Nick Gillespie|Sep. 18, 2012 8:31 am

Let's not mince words: President Barack Obama is one lucky bastard.

Last week, he got a near-total pass from the press regarding foreign policy due to what was at worst a case of bad timing by GOP challenger Mitt Romney. This week (and possibly beyond), Obama is being helped out big time by the release of a tape in which Romney inveighs against people who receive payouts from the government.

Maybe Romney could have waited another few hours after the killing of our ambassador to Libya but does anyone still think that Obama has any idea of what he's doing with regard to foreign policy?

Yet after disastrous attacks on U.S. people and places in Egypt and Libya - and thoroughly unconvincing claims by the administration that such deadly violence "is not an expression of hostility in the broader sense toward the United States or U.S. policy" - it was Mitt Romney who got tagged as having "the worst week in Washington." According to the media, Romney had finally crossed a line no decent human being ever dare cross by criticizing a sitting president while protesters demonstrated outside something like 20 U.S. embassies around the globe.

As Obama spokesperson Jen Psaki put it, Romney's willingness to criticize the president "does raise a question of whether his team is ready for prime time when it comes to these issues.”

You got that? Obama is the president, is the guy who extended the U.S. commitment in Afghanistan, still has folks in Iraq, unilaterally decided to drop bombs in Libya (where our ambassador and other people were just killed by an RPG-armed mob ostensibly annoyed at a YouTube clip), maintains a kill list, and pursues drone strikes in countries such as Pakistan and Yemen (sites of demonstrations). But it's Mitt Romney who's the screwup.

Romney is hardly blameless in all this, of course; as the failure of whatever Obama's mideast and Muslim policies are supposed to be is coming fully into view, he has hardly proposed a meaningful alternative other than looting the treasury to pay for yet more defense and bellicosity throughout the world.

And now, as Peter Suderman noted, his comments about "the 47 percent" will dominate the news cycle from now until the next gaffe. Romney's comments at a private fundraiser were taped and have been released by the progressive magazine Mother Jones under the headline, "Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters."

In the tape, Romney says

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax."

There are plenty of things to pick apart in this statement - and that's already mostly been done. As it happens, entitlement spending generally increases faster under Republican presidents than under Democratic ones, and Romney's devotion to seniors - who often pay no income taxes due to their retired status and reliance in Social Security - has been repaid with their willingness to vote for him. As the conservative writer Ramesh Ponnuru wrote before the tape was released, Mitt Romney, his running mate Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), and Republicans in general are mistaken when they pin Obama's popularity to welfare payouts. After noting that seniors are increasingly voting Republican even as government payouts to them have increased, Ponnuru goes on to say

It’s true that Americans with low incomes -- more and more of whom now receive food stamps and federally subsidized health insurance -- have generally voted for Democrats over Republicans. But in 2010, these voters shifted toward Republicans even as food stamps, unemployment benefits and the like continued to increase.

Conservatives have even less reason for worrying about people who don’t pay federal income taxes. A major reason that the number of those people has grown is that a Republican-controlled Congress created, and the Bush administration expanded, a tax credit for parents. If there is any evidence that in recent years middle-class parents have become more Democratic, relative to the general electorate, I haven’t seen it.

While the tape may have a different effect on voters due to its "secret" nature, the fact is that the GOP has been pushing the "makers" versus "takers" line for a long time. If that distinction hasn't pushed "takers" such as seniors and younger households who only pay payroll taxes into the arms of Obama and the Democrats already, it's not clear that this story will. As blogger Ann Althouse summarizes her reaction, "Presented at Mother Jones as if it's quite disturbing, but I don't see anything bad in there at all."

From a purely political perspective, the real question is what effect, if any, on swing voters who voted for Obama in 2008 but are up for grabs. These are the people Romney talks about as "the 5 to 6 or 7 percent that we have to bring onto our side." Recent polls had shown Romney up by 15 percentage points with independents, but that could all vanish if they start to feel an ick factor attached to Romney's fundraiser-event comments (despite however much they mirror his stump speeches).

I know plenty of people who lean toward the Republican rhetoric (and it's only rhetoric) when it comes to economic issues but recoil due to the party's positions and attitudes towards gays, immigrants, and broadly defined secularism.

Gallup reports that a sizable 62 percent of independents still think "government is trying to do too many things that should be left to individuals and businessess." That can't be good for Obama, whose worldview is very much about expanding government's role in everything.

For me, the real issue is that this mini-flap again deflects attention away from the state of the economy and related issues regardless of who wins. I have little to no use for Romney's platform such as it is. Indeed, the most compelling case for Romney's election was delivered by Clint Eastwood. The Squint's basic pitch had nary to do with the GOP standard-bearer. Rather, Eastwood argued simply that Obama didn't get the job done so he should be fired. That may or may not be effective, but Romney is pretty incidental to it.

But Obama's actual record is worth sussing through. As spun out at the Democratic National Convention, Obama's domestic policy moves have seen nothing but success. Either the stimulus flat-out worked or, if it didn't actually achieve any of its goals in terms of reducing unemployment, it staved off far worse outcomes. You got that, America: If I hadn't gotten to do what I wanted, says President Obama, you'd be even more out of a job. The illegal auto bailout was so successful that it will never earn back what was spent on it. Health care reform, which expands the budget-breaking program Medicare and yet manages to protect completely the budget-breaking program Medicare, will help the country's bottom line because it forces more people to pay for insurance so good they have to be forced to pay for it. The president's plans for the future include more spending, slightly more taxes (but only on the rich) and deficits for at least the next 10 years (his budget proposal only goes that far).

When the focus shifts from economic policy to things such as the drug war, or immigration, or transparency, well...noboby really wants to discuss those things anyway, right?


So thank god for this latest flap over Romney saying in private essentially what he says in public. Because if it weren't for that, we might actually get around to discussing something/anything that actually has a real bearing on just how bad whoever gets elected in November is going to screw things up even more. After all, a presidential campaign is really just not the place for that sort of discussion.
 
Quote from: Rifleman62 on Today at 09:45:40

    Redeye, cupper are you going to vote in the US election?

    Every vote counts and Obama will need your vote.


Redeye:
No, I can't. My wife can, and will, and is involved in helping overseas voters do so. I will be in the US around election time, and may well volunteer to help get out the vote, as doing so is perfectly legal under US law. I do have to make sure it's kosher under Canadian law, but I can't see anything that suggests it isn't. But I'll also be on vacation and probably have better things to do. Like celebrate on the night of November 6th, when if all goes according to plan, I'll be in New Orleans, probably a good place for it.

Yes you can vote. You don't need Voter ID to vote.

To verify, go to the Department of Justice. Note you will need photo ID to get in.
 
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