Toronto trustees vote in favour of black-focused schools

[Gimpy]

I reject your premise that I need to be "African-Canadian" to understand the problems.  By your logic, I'm not entitled to an opinion regarding anything but Anglo/Scots/Irish/Polish Jew Canadians - because that's the demographic to which I happen to belong.

I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, I'm not African-Canadian and I have an opinion on it, but I'm saying to fully understand what these kids are going through you have to actually go through it. My school was at least 2/3's African-Canadian and I've talked to many of them about the issue and they feel that other people don't fully understand what is going on within their community because they don't really care to know. You can have an opinion as much as anyone can, but what I should mean to say is that more non-African-Canadians don't want to have an informed opinion other than its just a black problem, so let the blacks deal with it and that does seem to be a very prevalent opinion in Toronto.

 

[Roy Harding]

I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, I'm not African-Canadian and I have an opinion on it, but I'm saying to fully understand what these kids are going through you have to actually go through it. My school was at least 2/3's African-Canadian and I've talked to many of them about the issue and they feel that other people don't fully understand what is going on within their community because they don't really care to know. You can have an opinion as much as anyone can, but what I should mean to say is that more non-African-Canadians don't want to have an informed opinion other than its just a black problem, so let the blacks deal with it and that does seem to be a very prevalent opinion in Toronto.

And I say bull.  To paraphrase:  to fully understand what I'm going through - you need to be me.  Seeing as how nobody else IS me, there's nobody in the world who can understand what I'm going through - that's a recipe for societal disaster.

I understand and agree with the latter part of your post - as long as "we" decide it's a "black problem", and therefore "we" aren't entitled to an opinion - "we'll" just continue to watch them circle the drain.  "We" need to get involved - and I don't think "afro-centric" schools are the answer.

I don't have the answer - I suspect it has to do with self-respect, expectations, and real consequences for lousy decisions and actions.

 

[Blindspot]

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=232058

Toronto already has a dismal precident that is being blindly ignored by the Africentric school boosters. The whole idea of using kids as political pawns (guinea pigs) just makes me shiver. Not only is Toronto the Centre of the Universe, it is the centre of political ass-clownery.

 

[Roy Harding]

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=232058

Toronto already has a dismal precident that is being blindly ignored by the Africentric school boosters. The whole idea of using kids as political pawns (guinea pigs) just makes me shiver. Not only is Toronto the Centre of the Universe, it is the centre of political ass-clownery.

Kids are ALWAYS used as political pawns (guinea pigs).  Some experiments are less harmful than others - but I'm beginning to suspect that the great experiment we (as a society) have been conducting on kids since the late 60's/early '70s is about to bite us on the ass (in many respects it already has).

As I see it, the best (but not only) solution to the mess we've created is to re-introduce individual responsibility.  "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" - in other words, if you hurt society, society is going to hurt you. 

I'm not sure we have the collective stomach for such an undertaking - and I'm open to alternatives, but I'm NOT open to further fragmentation of our society - fragmentation such as this "afro-centric" school proposal will surely accomplish.

 

[Osotogari]

There have been a number of interesting reasons for setting up this school but I have some reservations, particularly that racial segregation for whatever reason is counterproductive.  As well, what exactly is "black" culture?  Talk to immigrants from various parts of Africa, different parts of the Carribean, as well as the descendants of those who came up here via the underground railroad and I'm sure the answers will be very different. 

What is apparent is that politicians will pander to any perceived demographic in order to advance their agenda.  I'm sure that is the primary reason this entire thing is being set up.  As far as gang problems in big cities, we have begun to reap what we have sown.  In the 80's Canadian law enforcement and legislators looked south of the border and viewed what was going on as a uniquely American problem that could never happen in our enlightened melting pot.  What we have now is the result of that as well as a lax attitude towards drugs, the ongoing emasculation of our society, and finally the inability of our citizenry to legally defend themselves. 

I'm not convinced that a racially segregated school will solve these problems.  More likely, it will produce a bunch of professional victims.  But, it's Toronto after all and they've always known better and have never been shy about that. 

 

[1feral1]

Just think of the uproar if we focused on WHITE schools, or even mentioned the word.

 

[1feral1]

African-Canadian .

African-Canadian? I thought Africa was a continent, not a skin colour or race.

Bloody hell, what ever happened to just being proud to be Canadian.

So does that make me an Australian-Northwest European-Canadian?

What does an Australian or European look like, and for that matter an African? There is more to Africa than being black, as for our own countries, we are nations of immigrants for all over the globe.

What a joke.

Perhaps those that see things other than Canadian (perhaps of black heritage or whatever), should rethink where they want to live.

If two babies born in the same hospital, on the same day, one black one white, they are simply Canadians, and skin colour should not make a difference.

Its a sad state of affairs that some put their past (even generations sometimes) first and foremost over who they are today.

Whatever happened to that phrase by Lighthouse in their Canada Day song of the early 70's 'Canada stand together, understand together right now'.

In this growing country of warring tribes, methinks those days of a unilateral understanding as Canadians are done.

My two cents.

Its all piss weak PC bull shyte.

 

[cameron]

While the intentions may be good I personally think it's a step backwards.  I'm a former secondary school teacher and i've always held that the the main purpose of school is to create individuals who can function effectively in and make a positive contribution to society.  Canada is a multicultural country therefore school curriculums should embrace multiculturalism not focus on one culture. 

Bearing in mind the criminal and other anti-social behaviour being exhibited by many ethnic minority youth in Toronto, creating a school program that will only make it more difficult for black youth to function in a multi ethnic workplace will create more problems than it solves.  As a black West Indian i'm all for being proud of and promoting awareness in our African heritage, but that should not exclude increasing awareness and therefore tolerance of other cultures.

 

[Rodahn]

While the intentions may be good I personally think it's a step backwards.  I'm a former secondary school teacher and i've always held that the the main purpose of school is to create individuals who can function effectively in and make a positive contribution to society.  Canada is a multicultural country therefore school curriculums should embrace multiculturalism not focus on one culture. 

Bearing in mind the criminal and other anti-social behaviour being exhibited by many ethnic minority youth in Toronto, creating a school program that will only make it more difficult for black youth to function in a multi ethnic workplace will create more problems than it solves.  As a black West Indian i'm all for being proud of and promoting awareness in our African heritage, but that should not exclude increasing awareness and therefore tolerance of other cultures.

+1 Cameron

 

[Brad Sallows]

The irony here is that some of the same people believe these two things:
1) That "x"-focused public schools are necessary.
2) That the public school system has an important role as a social melting pot.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Segregated schools: what could possibly go wrong?

Brown v. Board of Ed. was decided by an American court and must therefore be bad (by definition).

 

[Roy Harding]

Segregated schools: what could possibly go wrong?

Brown v. Board of Ed. was decided by an American court and must therefore be bad (by definition).

The irony and witty sarcasm of your post is not lost on me.  (And I enjoyed reading it.)

The question remains - what's to be done?

I'm already on record as believing that the "Afro-centric" schools are NOT the answer - I'm also on record as admitting that I don't have an answer.

Do you?

 

[Kat Stevens]

I'm with Wes on this.  All this "Hyphenated Canadian" crap really gets on my tits.  I'm a Canadian by choice (my Dad's, but still), English by birth.  I think I need to raise a HRC case on the basis that I'm an English-Welsh-Scottish-Scandinavian-Manx-Canadian, and my rights are violated by not getting St David's Day, St George's Day, St Andrew's Day, and every Druidic festival off work.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

I honestly don't know how to solve the problem, but I'm certain it begins with every individual being allowed the same (not "different but equal") opportunities (be it educationally, legally, what-have-you).  The whole point of these proposed schools is to give children different opportunities based on their race, which means that some will benefit disproportionately (i.e., at the expense of others).  Moreover, I am also certain that if this program goes ahead it will backfire badly (all kinds of money will be spent to give black children an education that will ultimately be of less value than what the general population receives).

More generally, children (of whichever disadvantaged flavour-of-the-month) would be far better off if they weren't constantly bombarded by the condescending and paternalistic kind of messages programs like this send (of which the subject is only one of the more egregious examples)!  When one considers that the interference of social activists also serves to stigmatize, it is difficult to conclude that they are ultimately doing anything other than disserving those that they are purporting to help!

Maybe parents and educators should stop looking to the state to absolve them of their responsibilities.

 

[Roy Harding]

...

Maybe parents and educators should stop looking to the state to absolve them of their responsibilities.

Dead right.

 

[PMedMoe]

Maybe parents and educators should stop looking to the state to absolve them of their responsibilities.

Bang on!

 

[The_Falcon]

Maybe parents and educators should stop looking to the state to absolve them of their responsibilities.

And again we come back to teaching kids from a very young age the meaning of responsibility and accountability for ones actions.  It would also be a very long, and gruelling task as most people who were born in the late 70s to present day were not brought up with these 2 principles at the forefront of their education, and trying to convince them that they and their offspring are not special creatures, and that they will be held accountable for f-ing up is going to be difficult to say the least.

In terms of what can be done right now?  Well as someone who came out of the education system not to long ago, I can say from personal experience that one of the biggest reasons why people drop out of school, is that you are constantly bombard by the message if you don't get into university and get a degree, than you are a fuckup and there is no hope for you in life.  At many highschools you are virtually ignored if you are not at all interested in going on to university.  None university level courses were a joke, were the teachers were either inept, or indifferent.  Add this situation to a home life were parents are either on welfare or living paycheque to paycheque and it begins to become clear why some many people in poorer (predominatly minority neighbourhoods), give up and drop out of school. 

Thats what the TDSB should be focusing on, ensuring all students regardless of what their post-secondary aspirations are, get fair and equal educations.  Making sure people know about trade apprentiships, community college programs, careers that don't require a 4 year degree, and above all letting students know (especially poorer students), that you CAN have a rewarding life WITHOUT an expensive 4 year degree.

 

[Shamrock]

I'm at a loss.  Wasn't education a major button in the last election, and didn't the voting majority decide that there was to be only one public system?

 

[The_Falcon]

I'm at a loss.  Wasn't education a major button in the last election, and didn't the voting majority decide that there was to be only one public system?

No the sheeple were happy with the status quo according to the pollster and the Fiberals at the time.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Thats what the TDSB should be focusing on, ensuring all students regardless of what their post-secondary aspirations are, get fair and equal educations.  Making sure people know about trade apprentiships, community college programs, careers that don't require a 4 year degree, and above letting students (especially poorer students), that you CAN have a rewarding life WITHOUT an expensive 4 year degree.

I felt tht way  when I was in highschool in Toronto, and i'm a white middle class male none the less. ???

I think this whole idea is ridiculous. Lets group together one race, teaching one side of the story and one opinion; to form one strong race-specific view to the next generation. Have we not gone to war with enough states that have a similar brand of ideology and not seen the
results?