Tonites debate - 9 Jan 2006

[Prariedawg]

Its not over yet but why is Paul Martian almost spluttering with rage over every comment Harper makes?I would love to thank Gilles Duceppe for appearing tonite as everytime he opens his mouth I think that he just serves to back up all the tory accusations leveled at the liberals,almost doublestamping them as it were,making the tory attack seem more credible....more to follow.

 

[Kinote]

Anyone else find it strange how most of the parties attack each other whenever they can but never do any better when in power?

 

[Rory]

Well apparently we can all be politicians, and this is fact over fiction. Sure you have to be able to word things to mislead people or evade coming into contact with the point but not outright showing this. But when it comes down to it, aslong as you can argue like a kid who hasn't got his way your golden.

 

[GO!!!]

Anyone else think that Jack Layton put forward an excellent performance, if hollow platform?

Duceppe barely speaks de anglish, Martin appears to be getting desperate and panicky, and our hero forces a smile and a gesture every minute or two!

If even one of the two relevant leaders had Jack's public speaking skills, he would already have wrapped this up!

 

[Rory]

GO, spot on right there. Notice we play the if only game with Canadian politics alot lately? I don't know but I am positive one day we will have a solid government to stand by which doesn't compromise one section of Canada, be it military, healthcare etc. to cover another.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I thought Layton's 2 hr NDP commercial was wooden and boring. He'd be better off selling insurance in that mode, but I wouldn't buy any of that either.

 

[Gunnar]

Didn't watch it, LISTENED to it....the difference can be striking.  (Kennedy/Nixon anyone?)

However, I found Martin a capable speaker, in spite of the fact that he was obviously without a platform and backpedalling ferociously.  Then he and Duceppe had to get into a pointless argument we've been hearing for years.

Layton spoke well, but I would never vote NDP.  The NDP has done well with Layton tho...he looks intelligent, and if you're not from the GTA, you might even be tempted to think so.

Steven Harper was up to the task of speaking, but wasn't screamingly engaging or anything...nevertheless, I know what his platform is, because he made a point of stating and restating it clearly.  I can't say anyone else did that, except for Duceppe, who is irrelevant outside of Quebec.  Martin is for all sorts of things, including playing with the constitution for no apparent reason, and Layton is for more government programs, but doesn't really expect to win....but you should remember that there is a third alternative.

Did anyone win the debates?  No.  But Steven Harper managed not to lose, and he did that while leading the polls.  I'm sure that will count for something in the long run.

One thing I noticed this year, is that the leaders have been saying the same things in English and French.  Our political history is such that usually they say *different* things in English and French.  It's nice not to hear them bullshitting anymore.  Maybe the Canadian press has finally caught up to the rest of the world, and found competent translators in the past few years....

 

[McG]

Too bad the only mention of the military (at least as far as I noticed) was for Mr Harper to briefly refer to us as "peacekeepers."

I would love to thank Gilles Duceppe for appearing tonite as everytime he opens his mouth I think that he just serves to back up all the tory accusations leveled at the liberals.

He was making his shots at both the front-runners.

I thought Layton's 2 hr NDP commercial was wooden and boring.

Anyone else notice he was the only one that appeared to consistently speak into the camera & like he was addressing people at home?  Still, I think the commercial analogy was apt.

Martin is for all sorts of things, including playing with the constitution for no apparent reason,

I was quite shocked to hear he wanted to kill the not withstanding clause (especially since the hassle of constitutional amendment is one explanation, which I'd seen him give in a quote, for not persuing senate reform).  Harper was ready to add property rights to the charter.  If anyone is going to change the constitution, I'd rather see the elected senate.

 

[Munner]

I was impressed with Jack Layton and his platform. I think it's a smart idea how he is pushing the NDP to those people who vote LIberal simply because they don't want convservatives in power. He spoke as if he knew he wasn't contention for the PM, but was campaigning for more influence in the form of more MP's. All around solid show by Layton.

Duceppe was a waste of time. Aside from the fact that he can barely speak english he didn't seem to add anything of value to the debate. I was glad to see Martin put him in his place when he kept interrupting Martins rebuttle.

Martin and Harper were as expected - at eachothers necks most of the night while still managing to push the main points of their platform. Harper looked awkward as he tried to force those quirky smiles but spoke well. Martin also did a good job and was defintely the most animated of the group. He was heated up which caused him to trip over his words a couple time but that's only expected and all of us would do the same thing. At least he went into the thing with some passion.

All in all an interesting debate to watch. Like others, I was hoping there would be some questions regarding their positions on the military but there was none.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the vote in two weeks, however my prediction is another Liberal Minority.

 

[Sheerin]

I only saw the second half of the debate but I noticed a few things.  Of all the men up there I really only trust one and that Duccepe... and thats because he only wants more power for Quebec in lieu of total autonomy. 
He also looked the most alive out of the leaders last night...

Harper has some serious image issues whcih i'm sure will drive some voters away.  I know its been mentioned many times before but he just doesn't look trustworthy.
If the conservatives don't win at least a minority this time around they should find a new leader... I'd put my money on McKay. 

Martin looked very animated last night and that'll probably help him.  And Layton, well Layton is the only one who seems to understand that the debates are nothing more than 2 hour commercials.  I still don't like him and I doubt I ever will.

And someone mentioned polls... don't forget that polls like that are absolutely meaningless in our system.   

 

[QV]

Martin's performance last night was dismal at best.  When questioned on topic 'B' he would begin his answer with still attempting to rebut topic 'A'.  He was flustered and blabbering his answers and danced around most questions.  His body language was also poor inidcating to me he is showing signs of defeat, see him slumped forward leaning on his podium at times?  Whether Martin himself is innocent or not of any of the junk that went on with the Libs over the last decade is irrelevent.  He is like a CO and is ultimately responsible for his troops actions. 

Layton appeared too fake to me.  I also get the impression that he is far to soft to be a PM.

I thought Duceppe spoke well and had solid answers.  In my opinion he appears to be very honest and matter-of-fact.  Too bad his party platform sucks.

Harper, IMHO, performed very well.  When questioned he answered directly and provided a short blurb of explanation to back it up.  I believe he was the clear winner last night.

Here is my order of march:

Harper
Duceppe
Layton
Martin

I think a Conservative majority is a distant possibilty, but we will likely see a Conservative minority.
     

 

[dearryan]

Anyone else think that Jack Layton put forward an excellent performance, if hollow platform?

Duceppe barely speaks de anglish, Martin appears to be getting desperate and panicky, and our hero forces a smile and a gesture every minute or two!

If even one of the two relevant leaders had Jack's public speaking skills, he would already have wrapped this up!

Couldn't agree more. Im not voting for him...but at least he didnt engage in the other's little tantrums. When is Don Cherry going to run for PM?

 

[winchable]

I watched the French language debate last night and I wanted to ask about two things,
Firstly, my French is...uh, abysmal.

Two things i want to know are, did Duceppes refer to the other leaders as "monkeys"?
And did Duceppe argue at one point for more power in the hands of the provinces?

The first one I just found kind of funny, and the second one I found relevant because if Duceppe is arguing for more provincial power that could potentially make him more relevant outside of Quebec.

Did anyone catch it?

 

[RangerRay]

Martin was dancing behind the podium, flailing his arms about.  I seriously think the Librano$ are pulling policies out of their butts with that Notwithstanding Clause thing.

Layton reminded me of a used car salesman doing an infomercial.

Duceppe didn't perform as well as he had in previous debates in previous elections.

Harper was calm, cool, collected and knew his stuff, ie. prime ministerial.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Trust me, this is not a slam. Both debates were between candidates for the Prime Minister of Canada. Why was Gilles Duceppe even included? Why are we giving legitimacy to the falsehood of two separate nations within one Dominion? Let's wake up. Why can't Ralph Klien participate? He's a PROVINCIAL rep, that's why. So is Gilles Duceppe!!!! All he does is take away from the legitimate issues.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

After the Conservatives got hammered [ 2 seats]years ago they should not have been invited back for leaders debate?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Trust me, this is not a slam. Both debates were between candidates for the Prime Minister of Canada. Why was Gilles Duceppe even included? Why are we giving legitimacy to the falsehood of two separate nations within one Dominion? Let's wake up. Why can't Ralph Klien participate? He's a PROVINCIAL rep, that's why. So is Gilles Duceppe!!!! All he does is take away from the legitimate issues.

Well, off the top of my head, Duceppe's party holds seats in the federal government - lots of them.  Klein does not.

Duceppe seems to be the most intelligent of the group and has seemed in the past to be the most prime ministerial, ironically enough.  At least he says what he means and his agenda is crystal clear. 

Layton comes off very well also.  It's two bad the two major parties can't find someone with their charisma or ability to stay on the point.  Instead, Martin, and to a lesser degree Harper, feel obliged to pander to every interest group imaginable.  Given our system of politics, it's hard to see them not doing so, really.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Like the guy in the movie said: Uncompromising men are easy to admire.

It's easy to be uncompromising when the prize isn't realistically within range.

 

[GO!!!]

Like the guy in the movie said: Uncompromising men are easy to admire.

It's easy to be uncompromising when the prize isn't realistically within range.

Exactly.

All Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton have to do is rage against the two parties that matter, if they gain ground, great, because they cannot lose any more.

They can never be accused of having an ineffective of dishonest government, because they won't form one, and anything that the ruling parties do with their help they can lay claim to. For the BQ and the NDP, they truly have "nothing to lose"