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To Erradicate or Regulate Afghan Opium.

If I wanted ridicolous opinions about the afghan mission I would hire a couple of circus clowns and ask them.

Maybe I should start a think tank about accounting.  What do I know about accounting? I have seen a few hollywood movies and I could study for two hours on the internet, you know enough to become an "armchair expert"
 
Devil39,
I find their observations rather innane,  I could offer those ideas too -- but simply offering an idea does not given any thought to implementation.

Wootan 9 or others closer to this issue - could give a better idea on how the Afghan gov't is approaching it.

I can offer some insights into one method from the US DOS, in alternative crop supplying and education to help the transition for the farmers.  The British are doing a similar issue and as well have suggested that a certain portion of the Opium be redirected and used for provide legal supplies of Narcogesics.

From my own observations in a few provinces wrt Opium Erradication.

1) I would target (kill) ANY gov't official who is caught dealing in illicit drugs (I may run out of ammo...)
2) Interdict Russian Cargo planes who are "alledged" to be moving a lot of the Opium
3) Bolster aid to the outlying areas -- and further point out to the Farmers etc that one of the problems with the aid not coming is they and their sponsors are killing off the aid workers (gee I cant figure out why the aid dried up here Mohamed... -- which is of cource what the AGE want.
4) Buy the opium off the fields (destroy some - refine some into morphine etc.) until Comonex etc. can get the alternative crop rolling.

5) Send the troops out in small detachments like MACV-SOG and the CIDG in Vietnam -- live and work with the locals and help them better themselves

6) Crush some of the NGO/Western excesses that go on (while they should be helping, not sunning themselves at a beach resort etc.
 
Infidel-6,

Thanks for your observations.  I cannot find much with which I would disagree with you.

Implementation and money are the crux of the matter I would think.  I hope that the money is there to carry this out effectively, without creating unnecessary adversaries.  The amount of money spent on counterdrugs would go a lot farther if we just bought the crops methinks.

Take care and keep in touch.
 
I agree. The major concern I have is not that our forces can stabilize the AOR, but the reconstruction gets bogged down in bureaucracy, corruption, missed chances, etc. Once an area is secure, and we have developed a budding relationship with these villages, the last thing we need is a long, drawn out process before something happens. That is part of the reason the discretionary funds of the US Commanders are so important. Immediate action that the Afghan people can feel and see. If the Taliban destroy it, they do it at their own peril.
 
And how important is it to stop the opium farming right now ? Can that wait for 5-10 years ? By then the government should be stronger and better alternatives for the farmers should be available. I know we have drug addicts here and all, but we had them 5-10 years ago and we survived.

Or are the Talibans involved in the traffic, using the money for weapons and such ? I guess to some degree they are. I should have a quick look at that report.
 
it's probably impossible to definativly say that the taliban/al queda is getting financed through the opium trade...however common sense dictates that some at least some of their funding is through the drug-trade. i submit that even if that source of revenue dried up completely they would, without too much difficulty, find funding through other sources to make up the deficit. one of the longstanding traditional sources of money-makeing throughout afghanistan,pakistan,india and the gulf-states has been the smuggleing of gold and gemstones.
cheers,
gene
 
Taliban funding is covered in great detail in many other threads on the boards. Peruse at your leisure.
 
Just because a problem is difficult, and may take multiple attempts to deal with, does not mean it should be disregarded. 
Stopping the opium is not going to affect the nations economy, because the money mostly goes to organized crime.  When talking about the GDP, the percentage of legit opium versus illegal is going to be small.  And no, I can't quote sources.  They are illegal ops.  Criminals tend to be notorious paperwork schluffers. 
Infidel has a good plan.  But the bottom line is that the poppy production needs to be shut down.  Take that out, and you can put a real crimp on world wide heroin.  Find a way to not hang out the farmers, and take out everyone else.
 
"Buy Afghan morphine!" is apparently the answer?

http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/media_centre/news_releases/72_news

Canada should create a Special Canadian Emergency Task Force for Kandahar

Immediate action on poverty relief in Afghanistan is necessary to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the population, and fight the growing Taliban insurgency

People are dying of hunger in Kandahar province for which Canada is responsible

Canada should take leadership in developing a new initiative in Afghanistan – Canada should call for an emergency NATO Meeting to reset international community’s course

Canada should oppose forced opium poppy eradication and promote a “Buy Afghan Morphine” fair trade program

OTTAWA – Canada should increase its commitment to Afghanistan and take leadership within the NATO alliance to develop a new initiative there, said The Senlis Council, an international development and security think tank as part of a series of recommendations for Canada’s role in Afghanistan, made in a paper released at an International Symposium held in Ottawa tuesday.

“Canada took on responsibility for Kandahar and should see it through. We all should be deeply concerned about the return of the Taliban and Al Qaeda to Afghanistan, if not for the Afghan people themselves then for what that would mean for our own security.” said Canadian-born Norine MacDonald QC, Founding President of Senlis, who is also the group’s lead field researcher in Kandahar province.

“There has been a dramatic deterioration in the military situation in Kandahar in the last months, Kandahar is a complete war zone, the Taliban are winning both the military battle there and the battle for the hearts and minds of local Afghans. We have made a commitment there and must stay the course, but we must immediately implement a new approach. To pull out is to make Canada complicit in a crime against humanity in Afghanistan. If the international community leaves now we are making a gift to Al Qaeda of a geopolitical home for terrorist extremism.”

“Mr Harper should take some leadership on the crisis in Afghanistan and convene an urgent meeting of the NATO countries to develop a new type of approach for Afghanistan.” said MacDonald. “The longer we leave changing our approach, the more deaths and injuries there will be – including for Canadian troops.”

Extreme Poverty is fuelling the insurgency
The poverty crisis arising in Kandahar and the rest of southern Afghanistan is due to several factors – loss of livelihood through US led forced poppy crop eradication, displacement of the population due to US bombing and military violence, and recurrent drought.

Make-shift, unofficial camps have sprung up, and a starvation crisis akin to those usually witnessed on the African continent, is jeopardizing the survival of many – especially the young. Children are starving to death literally ‘down the road’ from the Canadian military base in Kandahar. The people in these makeshift camps have received no aid from anyone – not the Canadians, nor the UN.

“Extreme poverty is leading to growing anger and resentment against the international community and is directly fuelling the insurgency and support for the Taliban,” said MacDonald. “People feel abandoned by the Canadians and all internationals, who they believed were there to help them. Canadian troops in Kandahar are fighting the Taliban insurgency against a backdrop of an increasingly hostile local population.”

Forced Eradication of poppy crops is generating support for the Taliban
The forced eradication of opium poppy crops, which has been taking place in Kandahar Since 2002, has significantly contributed to the levels of poverty and the large numbers of displaced people in the province. The main source of income in rural Kandahar is opium poppy farming. The US-led forced eradication of poppy fields has fuelled poverty – many farmers have lost their livelihoods and are struggling to feed their families.

As Afghans are not able to differentiate between American and Canadian soldiers, the eradication of farmer’s crops fuelled anger against the Canadian Military. Eradication is endangering the lives of Canadian troops.

“Many of the people we met in the refugee camps had had to leave their villages because they had lost everything when their crops were eradicated,” said MacDonald, who has lived and worked in Afghanistan since early 2005 and who has spent much of the past six months in the South. “The southern provinces have been the hardest hit by this because there is so little else other than poppies which can grow in the harsh climate and desert plains found there.”

This year, about 3,000 hectares of poppy were eradicated in Kandahar. It is often the poorest farmers whose livelihoods are lost because they were unable to pay the necessary bribes to stop their crops being destroyed.

“The Taliban have seen a political opportunity in the anger against the NATO presence that eradication triggered and used that to their advantage in building political support in the south, said MacDonald.

A recent Report release by Senlis showed that the Taliban frontline of control now cuts though half of the country.

Emergency poverty relief would calm the growing Taliban insurgency and protect Canadian troops
Senlis said that Canada should move away from the aggressive US-led military approach and focus on poverty relief and development in order to engage with the local population and quell the rising insurgency. Canadian values and Canada’s experience in dealing with multicultural and bilingual issues is a unique asset that could be used to deal with Afghanistan’s tribal and ethnic challenges.

“We must send immediate food relief to Kandahar province. If we do not do this out of a humanitarian response to a province we took responsibility for we should do this a part of a smart military strategy. This is not a war that can be won through military means alone,” said MacDonald.

Senlis said an emergency food and aid package should be prepared for Afghanistan.

Under US leadership, development and poverty relief have taken a back seat – until now, security has taken priority, with 82 billion USD spent on military operations in Afghanistan since 2002, compared with just 7 billion USD on development.

“This is not the way to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people,” said MacDonald.

Three Recommendations for a new Canadian approach

Three levels of action needed: International, in Afghanistan and in Canada.

In a Report released by Senlis at the Symposium, Senlis recommended that Canada should create a Special Canadian Emergency Task Force for Kandahar. This would include a specific Economic Emergency Plan for Kandahar with a specially appointed non-partisan Special Envoy with the authority to coordinate the military and development responses. A Canadian group of experts and organizations should be formed as part of the Emergency Task Force on Kandahar issues.

Senlis made three key recommendations for Canada’s involvement in Afghanistan:

1. Canada should take the lead at the international and NATO level in Afghanistan - to formulate a new Afghanistan policy approach, tailored to really tackle the “hearts and minds” campaign. This new approach should avoid any actions which antagonize the Afghan population such as bombing villages and injuring or killing civilians, and poppy crop eradication. Canada should convene an emergency meeting of NATO countries to reformulate the approach in Afghanistan.

Canada should support the implementation of a poppy licensing system in Afghanistan for the production of much-needed pain relieving medicines such as morphine and codeine. An Afghan Brand of Fair Trade Morphine and codeine could help developing countries to deal with their pain.

2. In addition to the Economic Emergency Plan to be developed by the Special Canadian Task Force for Kandahar, Canada should deliver an emergency food and aid package – this will help calm the insurgency and engage with the local populations.

A series of Kandahar Jirgas (community meetings) should be organized in order to listen to the needs of the Afghan population – in this way, policy decision will be tailored to the populations’ real needs.

3. The emergency Task Force should organize the necessary infrastructure to enable Canadian citizens and organizations to be involved in helping Kandahar in very practical ways – exchange programmes could be developed, expertise exported and community support programmes installed to facilitate a closer relationship between Canadians and the people of Kandahar and contribute positively to the creation of a positive future for Kandahar and a durable peace.

Ordinary Canadians should be provided with the means to do more to assist average Afghans “Canadians have shown their commitment and concern with the situation in Afghanistan,” said MacDonald. “The Canadian government should give them every opportunity to directly help the people of Afghanistan.”

Senlis suggested stimulating help programmes and professional exchanges between Canadians and Afghans to increase mutual understanding and to empower ordinary Canadians to provide support to Afghan communities in need. “Everything must be done to set up the necessary infrastructure for Canadian citizens to help Afghan citizens in whatever way they can. Canada urgently needs to engage positively with the population of Kandahar.”

Contact in Canada:
Jane Francis or Julian Mattocks
613 783 4244/4248

Jane Francis cell: 613 262 5183
Julian Mattocks cell: 613 796 1075
media@senliscouncil.net

Contact in Europe:
Jane Francis
Office : +33 (0)1 49 96 63 70
Mobile : +33 (0)660 261 982
francis@senliscouncil.net
 
milnewstbay said:
Canada should support the implementation of a poppy licensing system in Afghanistan for the production of much-needed pain relieving medicines such as morphine and codeine.
It is not a bad idea.  A similar program could be started for the marijuana crops over there (and maybe introduce some genetically modified plants that can produce hemp for rope & clothing, but not be converted to drugs).
 
Senlis has been arguing this for ages.  They're the same organization that stated Canada was "committing suicide" in Kandahar and they have a very specific political agenda, something that the media fails miserably to mention.  ::)

They were thoroughly debunked here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/46480.0.html

As Wootan9 indicates on the original thread, Afghanistan tried to kick them out of the country, which should give you some idea of their credibility.
 
Hmm. Where does Senlis get its funding? What are the academic qualifications of its members? Are any involved in partisan politics? I have not been able to find any information on them online beyond comments on their work, and I need more in depth information as to their biases before I can read their reports critically. Once you realize who the Polaris Institute is made up of, you know what conclusions they are going to draw. With Senlis, however, it seems difficult to get the information to find out "where they're  coming from."
 
    To the poor farmers in Afghanistan the poppies are just a crop. When their crops are destroyed and they are given no options what else can they do but turn to the Taliban to survive? Interesting article below from Asia Times.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HK01Df01.html
 
They know the crops are illegal -- and very few run it as a sole crop.

Remember the Taliban had pretty much wiped out Opium crops during their tenure.
 
Many groups (not just senlis) have been suggesting legalizing the growth of poppies for use in codeine and other painkillers. According to the UN there is a "pain crisis" around the world, with many less developed nations suffering from massive shortages in pain killers. If Western nations bought the poppy crop from A-stan farmers at a fair price, we could better alleviate the drug shortages while at the same time developing the economy of Afghanistan. The main opposition to this is idea comes from major drug companies who do not relish the idea of being undersold in the undeveloped world.
 
Kilo_302 said:
Many groups (not just senlis) have been suggesting legalizing the growth of poppies for use in codeine and other painkillers.

Its also have been suggested by a lady here.
  X 10 for it
 
I-6 is right on the money, I have said before, make it the law to sell to the government, pay a fair market value for it. The West bankrolls the programs, destroy most of it, but use some of it to build up a local medical drug industry. Whoever does not sell to the government gets their crops destroyed. After a couple of years, tell them that 10% of the fields must be food crops and the government pays the difference. This increases the amount of food and allows the distribution, marketing and storage system for food to develop properly. Bit by bit wean them off the poppy and the subsidized money. This will remove much of the cash from warlords and Taliban, who will have to steal it from the farmers, who will then ally with the government.

It won't be perfect and it won't always be fair, but it buys us the time we need to rebuild.
 
Colin P said:
I-6 is right on the money, I have said before, make it the law to sell to the government, pay a fair market value for it. The West bankrolls the programs, destroy most of it, but use some of it to build up a local medical drug industry. Whoever does not sell to the government gets their crops destroyed. After a couple of years, tell them that 10% of the fields must be food crops and the government pays the difference. This increases the amount of food and allows the distribution, marketing and storage system for food to develop properly. Bit by bit wean them off the poppy and the subsidized money. This will remove much of the cash from warlords and Taliban, who will have to steal it from the farmers, who will then ally with the government.

It won't be perfect and it won't always be fair, but it buys us the time we need to rebuild.
it also give Afghanistan its' first real national industry.
 
paracowboy said:
it also give Afghanistan its' first real national industry.

Good point. In a country with oodlles and oodlles of mountains, why no mining?
 
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