Tim Hortons in Theatre Merged Thread (in AFG, no plans to preposition)

[COBRA-6]

Well if I am going to be the judge, then I would say it is sending the wrong message.

We will now turn the question around:  If you are some local from Iraq, Afghanistan, or where ever and you look over at the large military base what do you think goes thought that person's mind when you see all of these western stores?  Troops macking down on burgers and stuff?  Spending $5 on a coffee, or having the cost back loaded through contracts like the US and KBR?  To a poor local that might seem excessive, expensive and wasteful.  Why not run the base on the economy?  It might not be Tim's but it will be cheaper and 'friendly' to the locals and the economy.

Have you talked to the locals, or is this just idle hypothesising from someone thousands of kilometers away with no feel for the situation on the ground??

 

[George Wallace]

Well if I am going to be the judge, then I would say it is sending the wrong message.

We will now turn the question around:  If you are some local from Iraq, Afghanistan, or where ever and you look over at the large military base what do you think goes thought that person's mind when you see all of these western stores?  Troops macking down on burgers and stuff?  Spending $5 on a coffee, or having the cost back loaded through contracts like the US and KBR?  To a poor local that might seem excessive, expensive and wasteful.  Why not run the base on the economy?  It might not be Tim's but it will be cheaper and 'friendly' to the locals and the economy.

You do realize that franchises such as McDonald's, Burger King, etc. are prime targets around the world for those who feel threatened by their perceived conceptions of American Imperialism.

 

[herseyjh]

I hope some people can see the message that I am saying.  I am not saying lets run an open base, and I am not saying that the troops shouldn't be supported, what I am saying is how you are perceived can directly impact on how people relate to you and having your base look like the Mall of America can cause problems.  That is it.  All kinds of people have been on tour and survived without making where they are look like home, as well, it isn't home.

 

[George Wallace]

......  All kinds of people have been on tour and survived without making where they are look like home, as well, it isn't home.

That isn't true.  Every deployment we go on, we make things look like home, and improve on them with each ROTO that follows.  Be it our Mess, our gym, whatever, we try to set up our own little corner of home wherever we go.

If the Foreign Nationals don't get to see or use those facilities, what is your problem?

 

[Danjanou]

The coffee here is 5 bucks only if you buy one of those fancy ones (and I can't pronounce them).  A standard cup is $1.75, which ain't all bad as a little luxury item for the day.  As for prices/availability, the food in the chow hall is free.

Having recreation facilities and little bits of home available certainly helps maintain morale.  I suppose it can be taken to an extreme, but I don't think that we are there.

That being said, a Timmies was the first thing I hit on HLTA during my last tour...

Cheers,

2B

The FIRST thing? That's sad. ;D

 

[herseyjh]

It seems that most people here are happy with having this sort of service.  When compared to what soldiers had on previous operations it does look desirable; however, the more like home you make a place the more service and support is required to maintain that level of service.  This goes hand in hand and if it gets out of hand then problems arise.  We just have to look at the KBR/Iraq problem to see this.  We are, of course, a far cry from there but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be considering that as a potential problem if we continue down this road.  Was having a mess and a gym and maybe a TV room that bad, or do we need to have that and a Pizza Hut to be relaxed?

 

[George Wallace]

  Was having a mess and a gym and maybe a TV room that bad, or do we need to have that and a Pizza Hut to be relaxed?

You seem to be missing a lot in your look at this situation, especially in you last comment about being relaxed.  Being relaxed after a Patrol or some other 'nasty' task or encounter is exactly the point.  Once upon a time the Mess covered that requirement, with a few beers and the camaraderie of your mates to 'de-stress' and get things off your mind.  Now we have a Mess environment overseas, where you may have a Coke and then try to get a good nights sleep.  We do need things to 'de-stress' and relax.  If Tims should become one of the stress relievers, so be it.  The Americans, with their Burger Kings, Starbucks, Green Beans, Pizza Huts, etc. have found that to be one way.  If you truly want our guys to become tightly wound up, that is your opinion, and contrary to their better health.  And people wonder why our young soldiers are getting stressed out.

 

[herseyjh]

I am not saying I want troops all wound up.  When you talk about soldiers health and stress emotions kick in and the natural response it to say give them everything that they need.  Make the place look like home.  You can do this, and it will make people relax, but you have to bear in mind that this comes at a price.  We just have to find the middle ground, the balance that will keep the troops happy, but mitigate all the problems that having Army Inc. running your base.  Maybe I am a bit old school here but I was happy with the support that I received, I found time to relax, and that was with the more traditional 'military' approach: the mess, gym, ect...  I guess time will tell if this new model of care will keep the troops more relaxed.

 

[DFW2T]

I am not saying I want troops all wound up.  When you talk about soldiers health and stress emotions kick in and the natural response it to say give them everything that they need.  Make the place look like home.  You can do this, and it will make people relax, but you have to bear in mind that this comes at a price.  We just have to find the middle ground, the balance that will keep the troops happy, but mitigate all the problems that having Army Inc. running your base.  Maybe I am a bit old school here but I was happy with the support that I received, I found time to relax, and that was with the more traditional 'military' approach: the mess, gym, ect...  I guess time will tell if this new model of care will keep the troops more relaxed.

You have to understand that alto of the Americans in Iraq and in Afghanistan are on their second and third (possibly fourth) tour in either Iraq or Afghanistan or both.  Also,  when they go on tour their rotations are not fixed in the sense that they will go on tour for six months.  Many I know have done tours that were a year or longer.  So taking that into account and knowing first hand what an average day on the ground for the average ground troop entails,  I think the little quality of life measures like a Burger King or a CinnaBon (sic?) are an important morale tool.  Personally I think the risks involved in hiring TCNs and LEEs are minimal (when proper security measures are taken) and the positives outweigh the negatives (at least in the case of Americans).

Just my $0.02
DFW2T

 

[George Wallace]

I am reminded of that old saying (most guys with TI in a Field Unit remember) "Any 'idiot' can be miserable in the Field,........."

We are now working in some of the worse Shyteholes on the planet.  If these types of facilities can even give the temporary illusion of 'Normalacy', then why not?  Is it not cheaper to provide 'preventative medicine' than having to treat a full blown disease later.  The expense of setting up these facilities, may be cheaper than the alternative of not setting them up.  Money is not the only expense we are talking about.  We are also talking about the Morale, and Mental Health of our Troops.

So that brings us back to "Any idiot can be miserable in the Field......"  Many of us have learned what 'creature comforts' we can take with us, given the resources available.  If they are available, let's use them.

 

[Deleted member 585]

I feel that Tim Hortons already sufficiently supports deployed CF members -- smell the free java at KAF's Canada House.  I felt fortunate to have heat and lights in my tent--and since I deploy domestically an average of two-hundred-fifty plus days a year on TD in fair-to-swanky accommodations, I think that makes a statement.

I understand the principal from which many of the complaints arise, but it may take more than inserting a Tim's trailer into the Afghani theatre for it to feel anything like home.  Before you know it, someone will want to have their PMV shipped over in a sea-can so he can drive to the KAF Odeon...

 

[Cdn_Chimo]

I have just returned this weekend from KAF from the Engineer TAV. One of our tasks was to work on the Boardwalk project to line the sea cans for the PSP store and ice cream bar. As a joke, we put up a Timmies logo and put up an Opening Soon on a 8.5 X 11 piece of paper. The reaction was so great, and the moral lift was so high when people saw it, we had to take it down so we wouldn't cause a riot later. I think that Timmies would do extremely well there. No need for the donuts or that crap. Just peddle the coffee with the proper brewing machines. We all huddled around Canada House and the HQ Compound Canteen with our Capichino's (sp?) 0.50$. On occasion, spending the 2$ on the Green Beans Coffee. It was a good break from the dust and constant smell of sewer from the lagoons. I really can't understand why someone would even consider not thinking this would be a good idea for the troops. As we all say, any idiot can be uncomfortable. the more the amenities, the more morale is lifted and the better the troops feel, the better they perform. It makes sense. The US troops have 2 Green Beans Coffee joints, a Pizza Hut, a Subway (which vary rarely has veggies), and a Burger King which rarely has friesbut we still went to these spots because it was a piece of home and the line ups at the DFACS were crazy most of the time. It was a good break. Why count on the US amenities?

Bring on the Timmies!

 

[George Wallace]

....  Before you know it, someone will want to have their PMV shipped over in a sea-can so he can drive to the KAF Odeon...

Wait ten or fifteen years.   ;D   Instead of CFE Lahr, we'll have CFA Kandahar.......  

 

[geo]

I really question Hershey's experience.
To me, he's just trolling..... regardless of claiming a 031 / 711 pedigree.

 

[Franko]

I feel that Tim Hortons already sufficiently supports deployed CF members -- smell the free java at KAF's Canada House.

Hate to burst the bubble on this....

Tim's is planning on droping all support less the Op Santa coffee tins. I was told this by some of the PSP folks....to my surprise BTW.

The coffee that was there when we left was from everyone who donated their own cans of Timmies...including myself.

The brew that was there most days was Maxwell House.....Timmies on the rare occasion. The PSP keep it under lock and key because SOMEONE TOOK CANS for their own personal use.

Regards

 

[Cdn_Chimo]

The Timmies that just showed up at the PSP sea-can this past week was purchased buy PSP funds. It was 65 cases of coffee for 5500$. And yes Frank it was Maxwell House at Canada House.

Scotty P

 

[Korus]

And nobodies bringing up the 50 cent sugarbombs from the cappuccino machine? Man those things were good...

 

[Franko]

The Timmies that just showed up at the PSP sea-can this past week was purchased buy PSP funds. It was 65 cases of coffee for 5500$. And yes Frank it was Maxwell House at Canada House.

Scotty P

Too bad no one could figure out that if you empty the pot you had to make the next 'eh?    :

Regards

 

[wookie11]

I would love to have Tim Horton's hot chocolate and honey cruller in Kandahar
I'd probably eat it everyday and get fat.. hehe

 

[painswessex]

Just in timmies is going to kandahar