The US Presidency 2020

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Dropping out isn't good enough, Bernie. What you need to do is get out there and strongly support Biden,

Why??  What if he doesn't support him?  Oh, party lines .....now that's sulking.

 

[FJAG]

Why??  What if he doesn't support him?  Oh, party lines .....now that's sulking.

If you want to run as a party candidate then you support the party's ultimate candidate. Otherwise, campaign as an independent.

:2c:

 

[mariomike]

If you want to run as a party candidate then you support the party's ultimate candidate. Otherwise, campaign as an independent.

:2c:

:goodpost:

 

[Jarnhamar]

Maybe the party should have picked Sanders instead of Clinton the first time.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

If you want to run as a party candidate then you support the party's ultimate candidate. Otherwise, campaign as an independent.

:2c:

Seriously??  So every Republican that ran should have supported Mr. Trump then??  Wow.... 
In my mind that's the kind of thinking that gets us into this left/right, Reb/Dem, Lib/Con that way too many folks are stuck in.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Dropping out isn't good enough, Bernie. What you need to do is get out there and strongly support Biden, not sulk like a little kid the way you did after the party chose Clinton. That's what let Trump sneak in back in 2016. Man up!

Why?  If the Green candidate ends up matching his principles more closely, he should support the Green candidate.

Regardless, the Democrats' problem isn't Bernie - the problem is Bernie's supporters, who have pretty strong opinions about the behaviour of the party regardless how much Sanders tries to paper things over.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If Trump is re-elected I fully expect a Democrat civil war within the party.

 

[FJAG]

Seriously??  So every Republican that ran should have supported Mr. Trump then??  Wow.... 
In my mind that's the kind of thinking that gets us into this left/right, Reb/Dem, Lib/Con that way too many folks are stuck in.

I see where there might be a fallacy in my argument in general  :surrender: but these are extraordinary times (as was 2016) which call for extraordinary measures.

There were 60 million plus Americans that were taken in by the flimflam back then, most of who continue to live under the delusion  :Tin-Foil-Hat: that they did the right thing and sure as the gods made little green apples will vote that way again. I'm not so sure that the country's institutions can take that for another four years.  But then, I'm  :deadhorse:

:cheers:

 

[Jed]

I see where there might be a fallacy in my argument in general  :surrender: but these are extraordinary times (as was 2016) which call for extraordinary measures.

There were 60 million plus Americans that were taken in by the flimflam back then, most of who continue to live under the delusion  :Tin-Foil-Hat: that they did the right thing and sure as the gods made little green apples will vote that way again. I'm not so sure that the country's institutions can take that for another four years.  But then, I'm  :deadhorse:

:cheers:

I'm not so sure the US country's institutions could have taken 4 to 8 years of Hillary Clinton's direction.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Dropping out isn't good enough, Bernie. What you need to do is get out there and strongly support Biden, not sulk like a little kid the way you did after the party chose Clinton. That's what let Trump sneak in back in 2016. Man up!

:2c:

Trump didn't "sneak in" anywhere. The dems badly overplayed their hand by basically making anyone who works for a living feel as though they were somehow intellectually lacking due to absence of post secondary education. Bill Maher, Stephen Colbert, Jon Stewart and all the rest did more to get Trump elected than Trump did. Kick a dog often enough, it's going to bite.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Trump didn't "sneak in" anywhere. The dems badly overplayed their hand by basically making anyone who works for a living feel as though they were somehow intellectually lacking due to lack of post secondary education. Bill Maher, Stephen Colbert, Jon Stewart and all the rest did more to get Trump elected than Trump did. Kick a dog often enough, it's going to bite.

Exactly.

Haven't had a chance to post this for a while......around 3:30 is where he puts the blame where it belongs.  The whole thing is good though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

 

[Brad Sallows]

>There were 60 million plus Americans that were taken in...

...and there you have the problem.  Not the 60 million Americans, but rather the people who think they know best, express that opinion often, and usually do it in a way that expresses contempt for the judgement of the 60 million.

>I'm not so sure that the country's institutions can take that for another four years

The country's institutions are fine, as long as the self-anointed correct-thinking people don't degrade the institutions in efforts to oust Trump.  You know: tell only the truth, tell the entire truth, hold proceedings publicly, disclose everything, don't float oddball procedural ideas for undoing the outcomes of elections, etc.

 

[FJAG]

>There were 60 million plus Americans that were taken in...

...and there you have the problem.  Not the 60 million Americans, but rather the people who think they know best, express that opinion often, and usually do it in a way that expresses contempt for the judgement of the 60 million.

>I'm not so sure that the country's institutions can take that for another four years

The country's institutions are fine, as long as the self-anointed correct-thinking people don't degrade the institutions in efforts to oust Trump.  You know: tell only the truth, tell the entire truth, hold proceedings publicly, disclose everything, don't float oddball procedural ideas for undoing the outcomes of elections, etc.

It's not so much knowing best. None of us do. It's a question of acknowledging what is patently in front of everyone rather than wrapping ourselves in a charade that everything is fine and that the man is some form of genius.

I think most of us here agree that the institutions could be better but you do not improve them by firing the inspector generals who point out what is going wrong in the administration simply because you do not want to be contradicted.

It's never been about undoing an election; it's been an attempt to stop the self-anointment of a king. "Tell only the truth, tell the entire truth". Most people, including Democarats, believe in that as much as you do. This guy doesn't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump

Let me simply finish by saying that Republicans deserve better than to have their interests hijacked by this cartel which is more representative of the "Elite .1%" than the blue collar conservative working man. And that's the real point: Why do sixty million decent, solid, hard working,  individuals continue to stand with someone who has proven himself, over and over, again to be the antithesis of everything they represent or believe in.

:cheers:

 

[Brad Sallows]

There is no apparent danger of Trump self-anointing as king or emperor - just overwrought claims.  He hasn't even been able to play the authoritarian very well at a time when it might be most welcome.  As for him being an antithesis, he was not part of the "those jobs are not coming back" chorus, and the data are clear that prior to the onset of the pandemic the employment prospects of many of "them" had improved considerably.  Your views of what people should think best for themselves may be substantially mistaken.

Quite a few people slipped an emotional gear or three when Hillary lost.  Many slipped a bit more when the "Russian collusion" chimera folded.  Then the impeachment failed to deliver neither removal nor the consolation prize of unfavourable polls.  And now Trump has an excuse to be in front of voters every day, while Biden is stuck at home with his handlers trying to get a 30-second coherent sound bite out of him.  All the emotional distress has clearly unhinged some peoples' ability to think clearly.  And Democrats need to figure out whether Biden is genuinely sliding or not before the decision date for fixing their candidate.

Headline from WaPo today: "Sitting on a throne of skulls, Mitch McConnell confirms his 8,999th judge".

Featured article at Mother Jones: "Will Trump and His Enablers Ever Face Accountability for the Coronavirus Massacre?".

The people producing and consuming that stuff have issues.

 

[mariomike]

Why do sixty million decent, solid, hard working,  individuals continue to stand with someone who has proven himself, over and over, again to be the antithesis of everything they represent or believe in.

:cheers:

The people who voted for Trump and will vote for him or his surrogate again, in 2020 and in 2024 and beyond, don't care about the data because it doesn't address their issues, their feelings.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Most people, including Democarats, believe in that as much as you do."

Based on what I read daily, that claim is almost certainly false.  Trump's critics seem neither able to learn what is and is not truly his fault, nor to stop repeating myths, misrepresentations, and outright lies.  Even the "fact checkers" can not seem to restrain themselves to simply declaring the truth or untruth of plain statements - there is almost always an accompanying editorial spin.

There is no excuse whatsoever for those who propagate out-of-context or purely false interpretations that are flat-out contradicted by live video and transcript.  Watch the film.  Read the text.  Stop accepting third-hand explanations of what was said.

 

[ModlrMike]

Exactly.

Haven't had a chance to post this for a while......around 3:30 is where he puts the blame where it belongs.  The whole thing is good though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

That        was          awesome!

 

[mariomike]

The Age Factor:

The age divide in voting, which barely existed in the early 2000s, also is large. Majorities of voters ages 18 to 29 (67%) and 30 to 44 (58%) favored the Democratic candidate. Voters ages 45 and older were divided (50% Republican, 49% Democrat).

Among voters who said this was the first midterm in which they voted, 62% favored the Democrat and just 36% supported the Republican.

Younger voters voted Democratic by a wide margin.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

I'm not so sure the US country's institutions could have taken 4 to 8 years of Hillary Clinton's direction.

They say people get the leader they deserve.

What they got was the lowest ranked president since the war in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States#Siena_College_Research_Institute,_Presidential_Expert_Poll_of_2018

Can't say they were not warned,

List of Hillary Clinton 2016 presidential campaign political endorsements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hillary_Clinton_2016_presidential_campaign_political_endorsements

List of Hillary Clinton 2016 presidential campaign non-political endorsements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hillary_Clinton_2016_presidential_campaign_non-political_endorsements

List of Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign endorsements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign_endorsements

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

What they got was the lowest ranked president since the war in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States#Siena_College_Research_Institute,_Presidential_Expert_Poll_of_2018

Brought to you by the same people who predicted a landslide victory for Hillary I'm sure. 

 

[Good2Golf]

One day, the Democrats will realize/accept how badly they missed the mark in 2016 (and probably again in 2020).  Pushing Hillary at all costs, did in fact cost them...dearly.  Jonathan Pie nailed it, but the Democratic machine is and still will be in denial.  It will likely be up to Gavin Newsom in 2024 to repair the Dems’ disfunctionality...