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The Movie 300 and response by Iran

  • Thread starter Thread starter MAJOR_Baker
  • Start date Start date
One of the problems is that the World trade centre AND Pentagon events are somewhat current while the Pass of Thermopylae is something from history...

If 9/11 would be 19 centuries old, most people would find the story "quaint" but it's fresh..... and this wound is very painful.  Iran / Persia , like islam & Judaism have a long tribal memory that spans centuries... like elephants - they never forget.
 
This just in

Iran insulted over the rest of the world laughing about iran's outrange over the movie 300.

 
chuckercanuck.blogspot.com/2007/03/interview-with-xerxes-on-300.html
Interview with Xerxes on 300

Using techniques I learned from a biography of our longest serving Prime Minister, I hooked up with Xerxes via seance to find out what he thought of the raging controversy over the movie 300 in Iran.

CC: Xerxes, thanks very much for taking the time to speak with me.

Xerxes: Its an honour Chuckercanuck. I'm a big fan.

CC: Really?

Xerxes: That Garth Turner scoop was awesome! And to Stephane Dion, let me just say: birds of a feather, my friend, birds of a feather.

CC: So you follow Canadian politics?

Xerxes: Absolutely, everyone in heaven does these days. Do you read the Economist? They're bigger Harpermaniacs than you!

CC (laughs): Okay. Well, let's start off. Did you see the movie 300?

Xerxes: Sure I did. We had an advanced screening a few weeks back.

CC: What did you think?

Xerxes: Oh, its fantastic. Beautiful to watch, very exciting. Like Braveheart without the drunk jew-basher. Your FX guys in Quebec are brilliant! It wasn't perfect, mind you. See, what you guys don't get is that in those days, Greece didn't mean all that much to me. It was a backwater on the fringe of my world-straddling empire. Some olive oil and good sandal makers - but not worth very much to me. Sure, they held us off a bit, but I was like, "whatever".

CC: Fascinating. What do you make of the controversy in Iran.

Xexes (after a pause): I guess you can't see me but I just rolled my eyes.

CC: So you don't agree with President Ahmedinejad that 300 is an insult to Iranian culture?

Xerxes: Insult? Look who's talking! If anything is an insult to Iranian culture, its the current Iranian regime.

CC: Explain.

Xerxes: First off, I was the greatest builder of my time. I built things that made the world swoon - masterpieces of engineering and architecture. Nowadays, they need Russians and Germans to build everything for them. Its embarassing. I had scholars, scientists. We advanced the human condition - not curdle it.

CC: Good point.

Xerxes: I'm just getting started. My empire - and those Romans had nothing on me, I'll remind you - was an economic empire. I traded, I made business flourish. Look at Iran today - they sit on a garguantuan oil reserve and still have like half the country unemployed. They're lucky to get a boatload of pistachios out of their country. Its pathetic! They should be ashamed of themselves and their farcical five-year plans. Alberta and Norway look a lot more like my Persia than Iran does.

CC: I hadn't thought of that.

Xerxes: And talk about closed-minded. Do you know how many different religious traditions existed in my empire? Thousands! I wasn't trying to force Zoaraster down anyone's throat - I respected everybody's beliefs so long as they traded and paid taxes. Call me crazy, but as Bill Clinton put it: my kind of Persian was someone who showed up for work and paid their dues to the country. None of this fanaticism and fatwa-fetish. When I look at those clowns, I cringe.

CC: So, no sympathy then for the outrage in Tehran?

Xerxes: Look, Machiavelli has nothing to teach me. The poor suckers saddled with the mullahs are a perenially unhappy bunch and if you want to keep the peace, you find some way for them to release steam. So, I understand the ploy, but at the risk of sounding like one of your facist-friendly 9/11 truthers, this venting does nothing to address the root causes. Hey, this has been fun, but I've got a squash game against Voltaire in 15 minutes. Can we wrap this up?

CC: Sure, sure. Any closing thoughts?

Xerxes: Just that when I ran the world, tyrant wasn't a four-letter word.

CC: Xerxes, Great King of Kings, thank you.

Xerxes: You betcha.
 
VDH on 300

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson032807.html

300’ — Fact or Fiction
by Victor Davis Hanson
Tribune Media Services

Crowds are flocking to see the film "300" about the ancient Spartans' last stand at the pass at Thermopylae against an invading Persian army. Yet many critics, in panning "300," have alleged that the film is essentially historically inaccurate. Are they right?

Here are some answers. But first two qualifiers. I wrote an introduction to a book about the making of "300" after being shown a rough cut of the movie in October. And, second, remember that "300" does not claim to follow exactly ancient accounts of the battle of Thermopylae in 480 B.C. Instead, it is an impressionistic take on a graphic novel by Frank Miller, intended to entertain and shock first, and instruct second.

Indeed, at the real battle, there weren't rhinoceroses or elephants in the Persian army. Their king, Xerxes, was bearded and sat on a throne high above the battle; he wasn't, as in the movie, bald and sexually ambiguous, and he didn't prance around the killing field. And neither the traitor Ephialtes nor the Spartan overseers, the Ephors, were grotesquely deformed.

When the Greeks were surrounded on the battle's last day, there were 700 Thespians and another 400 Thebans who fought alongside the 300 Spartans under King Leonidas. But these non-Spartans are scarcely prominent in the movie.

Still, the main story line mostly conveys the message of Thermopylae.

A small contingent of Greeks at Thermopylae (which translates to "The Hot Gates") really did block the enormous Persian army for three days before being betrayed. The defenders claimed their fight was for the survival of a free people against subjugation by the Persian Empire.

Many of the film's corniest lines — such as the Spartan dare, "Come and take them," when ordered by the Persians to hand over their weapons, or the Spartans' flippant reply, "Then we will fight in the shade," when warned that Persian arrows will blot out the sun — actually come from ancient accounts by Herodotus and Plutarch.

The warriors of "300" look like comic-book heroes because they are based on Frank Miller's drawings that emphasized bare torsos, futuristic swords and staged fight scenes. In other words, director Zack Snyder tells the story not in a realistic fashion — like the mostly failed attempts to recapture the ancient world in recent films such as "Troy" or "Alexander" — but in the surreal manner of a comic book or video game.

The Greeks themselves often embraced such impressionistic adaptation. Ancient vase painters sometimes did not portray soldiers accurately in their bulky armor. Instead, they used "heroic nudity" to show the contours of the human body.

Similarly, Athenian tragedies that depicted stories of war employed contrivances every bit as imaginative as those in "300." Actors wore masks. Men played women's roles. They chanted in set meters, broken up by choral hymns. The audience understood that dramatists reworked common myths to meet current tastes and offer commentary on the human experience.

Some reviewers think the film is gratuitously violent. But Thermopylae was no picnic. Almost all the Spartans and Thespians were killed, along with hundreds from other Greek contingents. Some of the film's most graphic killing — such as Persians being pushed over the cliff into the sea — derives from the text of Herodotus. And the filmmakers omitted the mutilation of King Leonidas, whose head Xerxes ordered impaled on a stake.

Finally, some have suggested that "300" is juvenile in its black-and-white depiction — and glorification — of free Greeks versus imperious Persians. The film has actually been banned in Iran as hurtful American propaganda, as the theocracy suddenly is reclaiming its "infidel" ancient past.

But that good/bad contrast comes not from the director or Frank Miller, but is based on accounts from the Greeks themselves, who saw their own society as antithetical to the monarchy of imperial Persia.

True, 2,500 years ago, almost every society in the ancient Mediterranean world had slaves. And all relegated women to a relatively inferior position. Sparta turned the entire region of Messenia into a dependent serf state.

But in the Greek polis alone, there were elected governments, ranging from the constitutional oligarchy at Sparta to much broader-based voting in states like Athens and Thespiae.

Most importantly, only in Greece was there a constant tradition of unfettered expression and self-criticism. Aristophanes, Sophocles and Plato questioned the subordinate position of women. Alcidamas lamented the notion of slavery.

Such openness was found nowhere else in the ancient Mediterranean world. That freedom of expression explains why we rightly consider the ancient Greeks as the founders of our present Western civilization — and, as millions of moviegoers seem to sense, far more like us than the enemy who ultimately failed to conquer them.
 
A few comments
according to my recollections of The Histories either 1 or 2 Spartans were not killed at the battle.....

Here is an translationg of a Japanese highschool text:
The Japanese army, during the occupation of Nanking, killed a large number of Chinese soldiers and civilians, and among the Japanese officers and men, also those who carried out rape, pillage and the like were not a few.  This is called the Great Nanking Massacre. (Barnard, Christopher.  Language, Ideology, and Japanese History Textbooks.  London: RoutledgeCurzon, 2003, pp. 59.)
No one forced them to remember, and they are ethnically 99% Japanese, not suprising at all.
Its the Jews and Japanese here that force us to remember the holocaust and internement..... otherwise it would be a paragraph in our school texts

I read somewhere that Miller based his work on "the 300 Spartans" a 1960's coldwar era movie.

I think the Spartans and Persians were not portrayed well at all from a historical, political or tactical manner, but whatever...... its entertainment (which I will not see) :)
 
It is based on a comic book. Even if(!!!!) Miller wanted this to be anti-Iran, in today's world of PC crap, this is an oasis in the middle of a desert.
 
all this serious discussion aside...here's a little spoof to lighten up your day:

It's a youtube video titled "United 300"...you'll figure out which two movies are being combined and mocked once you watch the video link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3CRE9kFRvo

Enjoy...  ;D


 
I would not complain if the sun rose 5 times over Tehran before 8am on a hot day!

I have had enough of the whole lot!

Its just a movie, and they, yes they, are always looking for an excuse to have a go at us, after all, they do hate us.

Shakes head,


Wes
 
We get a lot of Japanese student here FascistLibertarian, and their knowledge of the Japanese invasion of the pacific is a very, very insignificant thing. You've got a quote from a textbook there but according to one of my Japanese friends he was never taught the real history of the war. He was told that the people of the Pacific islands, New Guinea, Solomon's and the Philippines to name a few, welcomed the Japanese with open arms and were pleased to be a part of the "Co-prosperity sphere".

My mate had never heard of Changi Prison, or the thousands and thousands of Prisoners on the Thai-Burma railway who were brutally treated and killed off in massive numbers. He had never heard of Japanese atrocities and if he did they were small things that meant little. The thing is that no one is forcing the Japanese to remember, as much as the Chinese and Koreans try. Have a look at "Comfort women" and how the Japanese practically deny their existence and their awful treatment. Japan is definitely not forcing the rest of the world to remember like you say. It seems many would be happy if all that history disappeared.

Iran seem to be very selective of their history in this way as well. Hell, like one of the articles already said, the Persians are technically infidels as well. They're grandstanding. History is history, even if the "300" is the most unrealistic movie of all time, who cares? You wont see ancient Greeks or Persians protesting the streets because they'll all very, VERY dead and have been for more then a long time. History that old is fair game. If Iran want to make a movie where they're the heroes and the Spartans are wearing US desert cams then they should go for it. I'm happy to sit back and giggle as they dig a hole deeper and deeper.
Its the Japanese movies of Solomon islanders waving and clapping Japanese soldiers that should be stopped. Those are the movies we should be worried about because those are far more recent and far more hurtful to the men who slogged their guts out in the jungles only 66 years ago. They are remaking history that actually matters and teaching a generation of young Japanese people lies.
 
Oh I agree Hale.
The thing is that no one is forcing the Japanese to remember
I agree 110%.
Books like Pacific War, 1931-1945 (Saburo Ienaga) and books on comfort women will never be standard reading in highschool or university in Japan.
The one quote I used from a high school text shows that while it was mentioned, it only got 2 sentences.
I deal with Koreans almost every day. Nice people and so intresting. Mention Japan around some of them though....... :threat:

Here all we want to do is blame white Canada for the Japanese, Chinese, Acadians, Jews, Gays, Indians, Women, and other groups which have been screwed over.
I think you need a good balance (I am not saying we need to ignore the above things, they are very important of course, but when textbooks talk more about Women in factories than men on the front line just to fit some pc version of history it gets me....)

 
Absolutely right mate. Social history is what people teach. You hear about social conditions, about how oppressed workers were and all that stuff but you dont really learn about anything else. Studying the First World War at uni your more likely to hear about Suffrage and poverty then you are about battles and attacks. Its a bit dodgy i think. And your dead right about it.
 
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