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The Military Police [MP] Superthread

Although I would agree with you to some extent, Jumper, MP's are thouroughly assessed and vetted through their selection process.   I'm not sure if you work in the trade or not, but the assessment process is a lot more than that of several police services, taking the opportunity to meet and observe candidate behaviour, obtaining a reasonable assessment of applicant suitability.
 
I have a question with regards to community policing. What type of community involvement does the military police have. I think thats one of the most important aspects of policework to me is to get to work with the community and help prevent crime.
 
MILPO said:
Although I would agree with you to some extent, Jumper, MP's are thouroughly assessed and vetted through their selection process.   I'm not sure if you work in the trade or not, but the assessment process is a lot more than that of several police services, taking the opportunity to meet and observe candidate behaviour, obtaining a reasonable assessment of applicant suitability.

I agree the MPAC is a significant advancement and recruiting filter, however, from what I understand, when the candidates meet with the board it's a pretty fast and furious process. With the exception of the RCMP, most services polygraph and the application process takes several months to complete. It would not work in the trade at this point in time, a bit of a logistical nightmare considering the branch has only one polygraph operator. However, I believe down the road, the branch may have to look into it more seriously, in order to further enhance the credibility (read optics) of the MP recruiting process to the outside world. Having said that I'm glad they didn't polygraph when I joined.
 
Well, my process has been in progress since August '04, having just finished the MPAC last weekend.  Another waiting period for the results and by the time BMQ starts , i'm looking at a good 8-10 months at least. There's more interviews in the MP process than most police services and the opportunity to be assessed by more than one rep. is a bonus, both for the candidate and recruiters, as the opportunity is there to impress more than one person.

I'm hoping it will be a fast and furious process from here in  ;)  I just can't wait for the three day sleep deprivation course at BMQ (and all the other goodies)
 
MILPO said:
Well, my process has been in progress since August '04, having just finished the MPAC last weekend.   Another waiting period for the results and by the time BMQ starts , i'm looking at a good 8-10 months at least. There's more interviews in the MP process than most police services and the opportunity to be assessed by more than one rep. is a bonus, both for the candidate and recruiters, as the opportunity is there to impress more than one person.

I'm hoping it will be a fast and furious process from here in   ;)   I just can't wait for the three day sleep deprivation course at BMQ (and all the other goodies)

Good luck on your BMQ and MP QL. I'm nearing the end of my career and I must admit I feel a twinge of envy when I hear of all you new guys and gals starting out, for all it's faults and foibles the CF is a good career, your joining at a great time. Just remember when your in training and all looks bleak and grey just say to yourself "One day I'll look back at all this and laugh." and you will.
 
What exactly does a Security Officer do and how is this different than the Military Police?
 
Not sure that this particular sub-forum can do this topic justice, but I'll wade in.

A Security Officer is an Officer that commands a platoon (or det) of Military Police NCMs.  If you want to become the equivalent of a city cop, join as an NCM.  If you want to be the Sheriff - join as a SecurO.
 
Security Officer is the old term.
Now they're Military Police Officers. Same job.

Cheers
 
The reserve MP Coy have been activated and attached to reg force formation(1 ASG). This has let us to be fairly busy. Anyone looking for a fulfilling reserve participation should look into their local reserve MP platoons. I have spent 135 days in uniform in 2004, while still jugling the demands of a full time job.

I just wanted to update that the reserve QL3 course has been rewritten to now include a month of law enforcement. QL3A will be the field portion and QL3B will be the LE one. QL5 and 6 should undergo the same fate in the near future.

 
You may not know but is there a plan in place to quailify all Militia MP to QL3B standards?  Also, any news on who is going to teach it?
 
garb811 said:
You may not know but is there a plan in place to quailify all Militia MP to QL3B standards? Also, any news on who is going to teach it?

I'll step in here and try to clear up some of the rumours floating around out here.
First I'll provide some background on myself. I was involved with the QS boards for 811s 2 yrs ago and I was a member of the writing board for the PRes 811 new QL 3 package.

A few years back (2-3) the then CLS directed the PM to get more involved in the employment of the Res MP resources and that when he looked at a MP he didn't want to see any differences.
With the new marching orders in hand the branch had to step up and fix years of neglect regarding the Res MP.

What was decided was to ramp up the Res MP in the one aspect we wern't trained in namely policing. Now, the Reg force QL 3 is 6 months...can't be done in the res world..not a chance and it's not our role.
What we came up with on the writing board was this.
Say there was a PO on the Reg 3's called widget making and the QS called for 100 periods of instruction...the Res QL 3 would cut it in half and do 50. What we've done is give basically a shortened Reg course to fit in 2 22 trg day blocks QL3A & B's.

The intent is to give the PRes MP enough of a back ground in the policing role that we can more easily deploy. We won't be qualed to the same level in policing and we don't need to be. There will still be the main focus on Army centric duties namely Mobility support, Security Ops and Detention Ops.

I hope this answered some of the questions  folks had,
feel free to contact me if anyone has any questions.
 
I'll just throw this out there. POPPA maybe you can answer. Does anyone have any info about members joining the Reserves after being released on a 3b from the Reg Force? I've heard of it being done (depending on circumstances).
 
Jumper,
As far as I know it depends on the what restrictions were put on upon release. Your local CFRC should have a better answer and if they do a VFS find out suitability.
 
Just a little off topic, but would anyone know how long it takes for the results of MPAC to be registered with the CFRC?  The approximate wait time is 3 weeks for an offer, I was just curious if they would have the results already and if I start calling my file manager, which couldn't hurt..ahh, i'll just call 'em. :-\
 
Poppa said:
Jumper,
As far as I know it depends on the what restrictions were put on upon release. Your local CFRC should have a better answer and if they do a VFS find out suitability.

Thanks Poppa, I'm on an accommodation now and have about 1 1/2 years left...just keeping my options open.
 
I'm in Edmonton, currently in grade 12 and will be going to university. Is it possible to become a Military Police Officer using Reserve Entry Scheme for Officer (Reserve)? In other words, is this occupation only available to current forces members or is it an open trade. Also, does it matter what university courses I will be taking or do they have to be related to police studies? Lastly, how is an Army Military Police Officer different from an Air Force Military Police Officer?
 
Do you mean an NCO MP or an officer in charge of MPs?? If you mean an officer in charge of MPs then yes, it is theoretically possible to join the reserves as an MPO, but I would imagine the opportunities are fairly limited.   Check with the local service battalion - which I think is 15 Service in Edmonton - not sure if they have MPs there or not. As for university courses I don't think there is a specific degree requirement but obviously something like criminology or justice studies (whatever that means these days) would make you a more competitive candidate especially in the regs (if that's where you want to go).   The RESO program no longer exists. Try ROTP as an alternative. And ps - there is very limited recruitment for MPOs in the regs - see the estimable Kincanuck's posts in the recruiting section for more detail, good luck, mdh

Oh and by the way there is no real difference  between an Air Force MPO and an Army one - they are now considered "purple trades" in that once you are qualified in the MOC you can be assigned to any element, army, navy or air force.
 
Poppa said:
I'll step in here and try to clear up some of the rumours floating around out here.
First I'll provide some background on myself. I was involved with the QS boards for 811s 2 yrs ago and I was a member of the writing board for the PRes 811 new QL 3 package.

A few years back (2-3) the then CLS directed the PM to get more involved in the employment of the Res MP resources and that when he looked at a MP he didn't want to see any differences.
With the new marching orders in hand the branch had to step up and fix years of neglect regarding the Res MP.

What was decided was to ramp up the Res MP in the one aspect we wern't trained in namely policing. Now, the Reg force QL 3 is 6 months...can't be done in the res world..not a chance and it's not our role.
What we came up with on the writing board was this.
Say there was a PO on the Reg 3's called widget making and the QS called for 100 periods of instruction...the Res QL 3 would cut it in half and do 50. What we've done is give basically a shortened Reg course to fit in 2 22 trg day blocks QL3A & B's.

The intent is to give the PRes MP enough of a back ground in the policing role that we can more easily deploy. We won't be qualed to the same level in policing and we don't need to be. There will still be the main focus on Army centric duties namely Mobility support, Security Ops and Detention Ops.

I hope this answered some of the questions   folks had,
feel free to contact me if anyone has any questions.

Your "solution" to the problem doesn't address the reason there is such an issue with employing Militia MP (I won't use the term PRes because not all of the MP Reserve world has this issue) and if anything is only going to make the current situation worse.  

Considering the CFPM reports to the VCDS the CLS is hardly in a position to provide direction to her.   Perhaps you meant LSPM?   Even then the ability for the LSPM to provide what the CLS was looking for is limited as the LSPM is primarily a Technical Advisor and his ability to provide direction outside of the Tech Net very restricted.   As for employment, neither the CFPM (with the exception of NIS) nor the LSPM have the authority to Force Generate, the function they serve is again, advisory.

Although not one of their mandated functions, Militia MP are taking it upon themselves to partly train for Police Ops with the reasoning being â Å“The intent is to give the PRes MP enough of a back ground in the policing role that we can more easily deployâ ?.   In whose mind is it going to be easier to deploy Militia MP?   As long as the Militia MP are unwilling and/or unable to meet the Reg Force standards there is going to be an employability gap both domestically and on tour.   Unless Militia MP can be appointed Military Police, as defined in Sec 156 of the NDA, they are unable to do the Police Ops function.   Period.   To meet this standard, Militia MP will have to go to MPAC, will have to complete the complete Reg Force QL3 course and most importantly, will have to become subject to the MP Code of Conduct.   This â Å“Police Ops Liteâ ? course does nothing to address this issue and, it is only going to waste money training for a function which, at this time, is not tasked to the Militia MP.   Most importantly, this is only going to make it more difficult for me as the Reg Force supervisor of a Militia augmentee.   Why?   First thing is, IMHO, most are going to have a hard time coming to augment us thinking they are going to be functioning as â Å“Policeâ ? only to be told they are unable to fulfil that function.   This already happens without there being any kind of Police Ops being taught on your courses, I can already hear the howls of protest when they are told that to me, their QL3B isn't worth value of the paper their course certificate was printed on.   On top of that, they are only going to know enough to get themselves, and most importantly their Reg Force partner, into trouble. You can't even use the excuse of there being a different standard for Police Ops while deployed as there is none.   In case anyone has forgotten, the trials and tribulations of the MP Branch over the past 10 years were triggered because of Somalia, not by an incident in Canada.   Unfortunately there are many people in the Branch, primarily Officers, who seem to overlook this and feel that it is OK to fill a MP position with a Militia member.   Let's not even begin to think about the challenges which will be faced for work-up training (OK, you've had the 3B last year so are somewhat current, you had your 3B 6 years ago and are totally out of date, you haven't even had the 3B because you haven't had the time and you Sgt...why exactly are you here when we need a Cpl?).   I suppose when you're only the advisor on manning this is OK because you don't have to worry about a visit from PS when something goes wrong, which it eventually will but as the guy on the ground who has to make it work, it can be a nightmare, particularly when the Militia MP can't understand the restrictions which get placed upon them and do everything imaginable to circumvent them to do the Police function.   While some tours do have scope for very limited Militia augmentation if there is an Ident and/or Security position in the TO&E, filling a hard MP position with a Militia MP means the Reg Force MPs have to pick up the slack.   If there is no slack to pick up the better solution is to simply cut the MP position and give it to a trade which can use it, rather than having it used as a make work project so the Militia MPs can say they are supporting the Army by deploying.   The last few Rotos into Bosnia are a good example of this and I'm guessing the situation in Kabul is much the same.

I also fear that this is going to be the thin end of the wedge for those members who are in your units who are already unable to draw the line and acknowledge they have no Police function, and you know they exist.   Unlike the Reg Force where we have a problem with new MP forgetting they could go to the field, many in the Militia conveniently forget they are not Police.   If it was just talk I wouldn't care but I personally know Militia MP who have used the fact that they are â Å“MPâ ? to obtain items from supply which they are not entitled (not to mention at that time the Reg Force had a severe shortage of that particular item), have purchased their own accoutrements (what use does a Militia guy have with a gun belt, Lvl 3 holster, handcuffs and ASP?), use their â Å“extensive MP experienceâ ?, with heavy emphasis on the "Police" aspect, to promote their private companies, others have obtained training from civilian police agencies (what do you do with a CPC course in the Militia other than pad your civie resume?) and units are already training Police Ops subjects, normally concealed as "professional development", or "interest training".   Of course, if Militia MP were subject to the Code of Conduct, many of these things wouldn't be issues for long as the indivuduals wouldn't be MPs for much longer if they kept at it.   Even this board is a good example, it doesn't take much digging to find Militia MPs talking authoritatively about Reg Force MP issues.

The last major issue this is going to cause is to increase the confusion which exists about the capabilities, authority and jurisdiction of Militia MP regarding Police Ops because if you're training for it, the obvious thing is you're qualified, authorised and have the jurisdiction to be doing it, never mind what the NDA or MP Policies and Proceedures have to say about the matter.   I'm aware of numerous instances where Commanders have had Militia MP do things they didn't have the training, authority or jurisdiction to do probably because the Commanders simply weren't aware, and were not informed by the Militia MP wrongly tasked, that it was outside the Militia MP mandate.   Let's not even talk about the Militia MP NCO or Officer who will suddenly think he is qualified to oversee a Police Investigation...

My take on this initiative is the stand up of the MP Coys has not solved the recruiting and retention issues being faced by the Militia MP, which was one of the the big selling points to have them activated outside of the LFRR.   By being out from the shadow of the Svc Bn, they were supposed to finally be able to â Å“train as MPsâ ? and â Å“be employed as MPsâ ? and in many minds, the MP units would have to fight off the recruits.   Unfortunately, I think this has failed because the only drawing card the MPs have is the chance to be a â Å“Copâ ?.   Once people realise they can't be a cop and that the world of the Militia MP is that of PWs, TCPs and Route Recces (I won't even include Security because when was the last time the majority of you did a Security Survey?), the trade rapidly loses its attraction and this â Å“MP Liteâ ? course is supposed to give them enough of a taste to bring them in and keep them around, at least until their first task to augment us, when reality will strike.   I also think that once the Chain of Command realizes the lame ducks they have on their hands, the current situation won't stand much longer.   I personally give the current Militia MP organization 5-10 years,  in that time they will either have to become Military Police IAW Sect 156 of the NDA and adopt a posture and structure which will support the Reg Force or they will cease to exist.   Unfortunately I fear it will be the later given the current track record of refusing to see the forest for the trees.

Lastly, by this point most of you Militia MP must be thinking I'm totally against the idea of Militia MP, but I'm not.   I think there is a lot of potential in the organisation and you have some outstanding and dedicated people and I know this from extensive experience with Militia MP subordinates both domestically and abroad.   Unfortunately how you are organized and trained today does not meet the need of the Reg Force MPs and until that changes, the issues surrounding employing you will not go away.   I hope you get it right because I really want to have something to keep me busy in my retirement.

Poppa, if you'd send me the makeup of your writing board via PM I'd much appreciate it.   I don't need names but ranks, units and experience would go a long way in helping me understand where this is coming from and where it is going.  

If anyone has the CTS for this QL3B, I would also be most interested in seeing that as well.   PM me for an email address.

PS - It wasn't the Branch which neglected the Militia MP for the last number of years as the "Branch" has no control over you, your tasks or your funding.   As a Land Force asset the buck stops at the CLS shop as it is the Land Force which mandates unit training through the assignment of tasks and then provides the funds to train to those tasks.   Land Staff has gotten what they paid for, it is the Branch which is having to deal with the effects of those choices.
 
Garb I totally agree with your analsis of Reserve MP. Unfortunately I believe the delusions of grandeur come from the officer level, from those who have had very little operational and police experience. I recently heard a little spiel on how the Reserves where planning on training PRes MP. An officer commented that Reseve MP were going to provide Crim Int to Commanders in the field. I was quite surprised to hear this since the only organization authorized to collect, collate and disseminate Crim Int is the Military Police Criminal Intelligence Program (MPCIP) under the NIS. It was quite evident to me that they were going for the "MP Lite" program as you so eloquently put it. It's this type of approach that is going to get us in trouble once again. I have absolutely no problem with Reserve MP directing traffic, handling PWs or route signing, however this notion that somehow with a little bit of training we'll be able to deploy the Reserve MP as augmentees for Reg Force MP is out to lunch. I spent six years in the NIS and God knows the policing skills of some Reg Force MP is enough to make one weep, and these are the "trained professionals" I can just imagine what kind of product you'd get from an individual who works on Tuesday and Thursday nights. I think what we need is a more realistic approach to Reserve MP, to use the catch phrase of the day, concentrate on "Army Centric" tasks; road moves, Physical Security, Guard Duties, PWs and certain Dom Ops.  J
 
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