The Military Police [MP] Superthread

[Wizard of OZ]

I also have issues with them wearing red berets in Canada and that bugs me (personally). They are not the policing authourity and have no such powers.
Are you implying that the Red Beret is a visible symbol of the authority derived from Sec 156?  If so, you might want to rethink that one because when someone has their credentials withdrawn pending an investigation and decision (if required) by the MPCRB you don't see them heading over to stores to draw a green beret and you would think that when the Branch went to OPD they would have ensured that ALL MP, no matter what the element, had that as their headdress.  Take a read of the Dress Regs and see what it has to say, I'm 99% sure that there is no mention of having to be appointed "Military Police" IAW Sect 156 is a requirement to wear the Red Beret, simply to be a MP in the Army DEU.  Also, I am more than happy to point out that I have never had a problem with getting a Reserve MP to wear their headdress, and with pride.  Can't say the same about Reg Force MPs, quite a few of whom seem to feel that head dress is optional in OPD.

I am not implying that at all.  The Red Beret is an elemental thing for the army.  All the other elements use a diiffrerent method. All i am saying is it bugs me personally and i do believe i am entitled to an opinion.  I have no problem with them having a green beret with a red indentifier on it.  That is just my thoughts.  Cadets get away with it to and that to bugs me.

And if you have been having a hard time getting your guys to wear their beret with OPD's then feel free to use the size ten key.  I have no time for people who want to "make up their own rules" to have a good LCF.  The only time i never wore my beret was for officer saftey (going into a bar, attending a domestic, etc.) simple traffic stop have it on, going to visit someone have it on. 

As for powers of arrest they do not carry the same powers as Reg force members under the CC of C.  In alberta the MP's had Specail Consatable status never heard of a reserve MP getting that.

I have no problem with what they do, they (their unit) is specifically designed for that.  They are a useful portion of our trade but there is a job for everyone and we all have to know what that is.

Dissadant if you want to go that route then join the Air force Res. 

Spoken like someone who didn't survive the previous PM's business.  Things in the last 4 years have been nothing but gravy and nothing radical has happened within the Branch from my point of view but maybe you see it differently.

Why would you think that.  I say that only because this will be Her last one (more then likely) and i am sure there will be all kinds of posturing to gain postion.  That is what i meant by Crazy ideas.  I personally think the last two PM's have done more to change this trade for the better then most of the rest of them put together.  Dot has done alot of things to build this trade to an equal footing of alot of civi forces (pay, Sampis, i would give her credit for the OPD's but that was started before her time.

 

[MILPO]

As for powers of arrest they do not carry the same powers as Reg force members under the CC of C.   In alberta the MP's had Specail Consatable status never heard of a reserve MP getting that.

It's probably about time they institute the Special Constable status for the respective provinces throughout Canada for MP's.  They recently did that for the RCMP in Ottawa because they couldn't enforce any HTA or other provincial offences throughout here while conducting their duties and having spoke with a few of the officers they couldn't be more relieved that they are able to pull over the ones that would fly by them knowing that they couldn't do a thing about it, other then nail them for Careless driving under the CC.

The only drawback I could see is that if an MP does conduct a traffic stop or detains somebody for an offence off of DND property, then were would the priority be when a call comes in for an incident related to DND property and that MP is currently tied up dealing with an issue off property.

 

[canadianblue]

It's probably about time they institute the Special Constable status for the respective provinces throughout Canada for MP's.  They recently did that for the RCMP in Ottawa because they couldn't enforce any HTA or other provincial offences throughout here while conducting their duties and having spoke with a few of the officers they couldn't be more relieved that they are able to pull over the ones that would fly by them knowing that they couldn't do a thing about it, other then nail them for Careless driving under the CC.

The only drawback I could see is that if an MP does conduct a traffic stop or detains somebody for an offence off of DND property, then were would the priority be when a call comes in for an incident related to DND property and that MP is currently tied up dealing with an issue off property.

I'm just curious, how much do the fulltime MP's have to go off base usually when their working, do they go where ever the military goes to do field exercises. I remember in my hometown of Stony we had a bunch of military personal around here for some field training I believe. Do some MP's still get called out by some RCMP detachments which require a few more extra police officers to help with situations?

Another question I have is, how much paperwork do MP's have to do, out of the total time when they are on shift, and what are the shift schedules like?

 

[MILPO]

I'm just curious, how much do the fulltime MP's have to go off base usually when their working, do they go where ever the military goes to do field exercises. I remember in my hometown of Stony we had a bunch of military personal around here for some field training I believe. Do some MP's still get called out by some RCMP detachments which require a few more extra police officers to help with situations?

Another question I have is, how much paperwork do MP's have to do, out of the total time when they are on shift, and what are the shift schedules like?

Since nobody has replied yet, I will share my insight that I have from personal knowledge.  MP's have to travel base to base in some circumstances where there is more than one base or assets belonging to the military (i.e. Halifax, Ottawa that I know of personally, i'm sure there is more).  My point in my previous post was based on this in regards to the priority should an incident occur while travelling off property not related to military.

When an incident occurs, paperwork is done.  It's like that in the civilian sector as well.  So if you don't do anything during your shift, then it's not likely any paperwork would have to be completed.  It all depends on how busy you are. 

 

[Kurhaus]

It's probably about time they institute the Special Constable status for the respective provinces throughout Canada for MP's. They recently did that for the RCMP in Ottawa because they couldn't enforce any HTA or other provincial offences throughout here while conducting their duties and having spoke with a few of the officers they couldn't be more relieved that they are able to pull over the ones that would fly by them knowing that they couldn't do a thing about it, other then nail them for Careless driving under the CC.

The only drawback I could see is that if an MP does conduct a traffic stop or detains somebody for an offence off of DND property, then were would the priority be when a call comes in for an incident related to DND property and that MP is currently tied up dealing with an issue off property.

I am in agreement that we need some kind of Special Constable status, however, there would be a requirement to limit the powers to avoid the troops spending the entire night shift off base looking for incidents. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
I am in agreement that we need some kind of Special Constable status, however, there would be a requirement to limit the powers to avoid the troops spending the entire night shift off base looking for incidents. 

.....no limits would be required, just a weed out of those who would not be professional enough to use the power correctly.

 

[George Wallace]

Bruce

You wouldn't be implying that there are some "cowboys" out there, would you?  ;D

Unfortunately, in all seriousness, I have witnessed a few.  I am sure that the serious MPs frown on the actions of a few also.

GW

 

[Kurhaus]

"Power Corrupts but Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely"

You won't be able to weed out all of the potential problem children.  I even know some members with 10+ years service where additional special powers would go right to their head.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

The problem is the event has to have occured on or in relation to DND property to act off of it.  That being said We travel in marked police cars and look like civi cops now the public has an espection on us to act if something where to happen off DND property and we were around.  (imparied driver, accient with injury and the list could go on.) Ottawa needs to set a national policy for all dets to be able to act or not to act. 

In real life though the member in that situation has to look at himself in the morning and know he did the right thing. 

Traffic stops down town ottawa for 2-3 kph over the limit are not the right things to do.

If MP forerly known as Garb reads this PM me i have a question about your case law from the other chat we were having that is now locked.

Here is my case law from the 05 version of the cc of c

R v. Malmo-Levine; R v. Caine 2003 SCC  the criminalization of the possession of mariuana even for recreational personal use does not violate ss 7 or 15 of the Charter

Rv. Hamon- the Prohibition against posssession of mariuana does not infringe either ss 15 or 7 ot the Charter.

so guess what possession still illegal in Canada until new law comes into effect.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
 I even know some members with 10+ years service where additional special powers would go right to their head.

...which may be true originally, but once the the recruiting cycle comes full circle and personall START with that power, the weed-out will happen.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Bruce i do appreciate your optimism but all police forces have their bad apples, ours just tend to spoil more then a bunch.  They spoil the whole trade.

 

[canadianblue]

I would hope that MP's get special constable status whereever they work. I would sure hope that some of the MP's on base would be disciplined enough not to abuse that power.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Again

Most of the MP's on base do not abuse their powers, some may be a little overzealous but those guys are normally new from the academy and still think they have something to prove. (some not all)  If you break the law you face the chances of a: getting caught and punished, b: getting caught and given a warning (depending on the offence mainly traffic on this one) and c: not getting caught.  A warning is part of officer discression not everyones right to contrary believe.

But Some MP's think that they can go downtown and play traffic cop way outta their AOR and see nothing wrong with it, as they have a badge and gun and car that says police on it.  That is were the problem is. 

 

[infamous_p]

I am interested in becoming an MP in the future... as an NCM, NOT an officer.

does anyone know of the requirements for being an NCM military police? any requirements at all.

thank you.

 

[WATCHDOG-81]

For the current requirements for MP 811 can be found at :

http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/811_en.pdf

 

[garb811]

While it is true some MPs in Alberta had been appointed Special Constables, their appointment was for very specific reasons and it did not empower them to do anything outside of that very specific mandate.  Additionally, my understanding is it only affected MPs at two bases at one time or another.  As far as I understand this appointment was withdrawn some time ago, several years IIRC, as it had not been sanctioned by the CFPM.  Do we need Special Constable status?  I'm not sold on this being a requirement across the board as in my view this is going through the back door around the Nolan decision because what most people see when they talk about Special Constable status is expanded jurisdiction vice authority to enforce provincial statutes on CF property.  In any case this would require provincial approval after being approached by DND (which wouldn't happen unless the CFPM approved it) and I have seen no indications of this practice being reinstated.

Futuretrooper:  Presence of MP at exercises on civilian land is very much case by case.  If it a small exercise, such as at the Coy level, MP are not likely to be present.  If it is Bn size, you can be pretty sure that the Bn Sheriff and/or his Deputy will be in the area as part of the Bn as a whole and if is larger than that, there is a very good possibility that the MP Pl will be involved to some extent.  Shift schedules are generally  a 28 day cycle where you work 4 shifts (2 days, 2 nights), have 5 days off, work 5 shifts (2 days, 3 nights), have 4 days off, work 5 shifts (3 days, 2 nights), 5 days off.  Each shift is "officially" 12 hours but if you pick something up the last hour of your shift...

Dissedent:  The downside with multi-year training is getting everyone through it and the problem that is raised when you have someone miss a year or two and then suddenly want back into the training stream.  At that point who gets priority on the course, the guy who had it the year prior or the guy who has "seniority"?  It'll be interesting to see how your QL3A and B works because even if they get these two courses down to a length you can take in one summer, as soon as you "split" a course you have people take the A portion and then have to go back to work for the B portion.

OZ:  If you go back and read, I never said pot possession at large was currently legal.  I used that specific example to show the court declaring a law Unconstitutional and then taking steps to make the law Constitutional again.  The case law states, "Hence the marihuana prohibition in s. 4 has been of no force or effect since July 31, 2001."  The court then went on and reconciled the law with the Constitution by writing, "Although Parliament may subsequently choose to change it, that prohibition is now no longer invalid, but is of full force and effect. Those who establish medical need are simply exempted from it."  Sorry if that was confusing.

 

[Kurhaus]

Quote,
 I even know some members with 10+ years service where additional special powers would go right to their head.

...which may be true originally, but once the the recruiting cycle comes full circle and personall START with that power, the weed-out will happen.

You ever worked a night shift as an MP?   Things get really boring a 0230 hrs on the slow nights.   That will never change and even with a "weed out" and the troops having additional powers, there is a good chance they will go hunting.   They will need a lease of some sort or PS will be really busy.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
You ever worked a night shift as an MP?  Things get really boring a 0230 hrs on the slow nights.

...not as an MP, but, I think 16 years doing shift work as a guard in a Correctional Centre might give me some insight into what happens to those who decide to "go overboard" with their powers and I stand by my theory that once the  peace officer power is in place, the "new guys" who start with it will weed themselves out accordingly. Of course, good leadership at the NCO rank would be necessary also to assist in this process, are you saying the NCO leadership is lacking?

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Quote,
You ever worked a night shift as an MP?   Things get really boring a 0230 hrs on the slow nights.

...not as an MP, but, I think 16 years doing shift work as a guard in a Correctional Centre might give me some insight into what happens to those who decide to "go overboard" with their powers and I stand by my theory that once the   peace officer power is in place, the "new guys" who start with it will weed themselves out accordingly. Of course, good leadership at the NCO rank would be necessary also to assist in this process, are you saying the NCO leadership is lacking?

Not in the type A personality department of the MP worlds, D) but some times there are to many teachers and not enough students.  If you know what i mean. 

 

[Kurhaus]

Quote,
You ever worked a night shift as an MP?   Things get really boring a 0230 hrs on the slow nights.

...not as an MP, but, I think 16 years doing shift work as a guard in a Correctional Centre might give me some insight into what happens to those who decide to "go overboard" with their powers and I stand by my theory that once the   peace officer power is in place, the "new guys" who start with it will weed themselves out accordingly. Of course, good leadership at the NCO rank would be necessary also to assist in this process, are you saying the NCO leadership is lacking?

Here is my quote below, I don't think there was any mention of the NCO leadership within the MP Trade. Looks like your reaching, Bruce.

You ever worked a night shift as an MP?   Things get really boring a 0230 hrs on the slow nights.   That will never change and even with a "weed out" and the troops having additional powers, there is a good chance they will go hunting.   They will need a lease of some sort or PS will be really busy.

In fact, the NCO Leadership of the trade, IMO, is probably the only thing holding it together (and that is our job BTW).   But as previous members have posted, there are shifts full of PEP's who are being supervised by inexperienced people and no NCO's are around at O'Dark 30.   The MPDO (the guardhouse WO, Sgt's, Senior MCpl's and at times the SAMP O) are a phone call away and will attend the guardhouse if needed.   But until that time, it is a trust issue with the Shift Commanders that they will do the right thing.

When I joined the trade we had a Sgt and MCpl or two MCpl's per shift.   As the trade ages and the baby boomers retire (like everywhere else), the gap left at the top is great for promotion in the middle ranks but tickles down to the JR's who have to make due.