The Martial Arts Superthread

[Mojo Magnum]

Ok guys, as a new recruit who loves martial arts,

I get the impression that hand to hand combat training is not as "front and center" in the CF as I had thought.

But, being forever the optimist I have observed that you all are not suffering from any shortage of martial arts awareness and thus I expect each of you could execute at least one deadly maneuver in a hurry if suddenly called upon.  Where did you attain the martial arts knowledge you possess?  On Army time or your time?

 

[Island Ryhno]

Personal time, only unarmed I ever did on military time was pugil sticks. Oh and a couple of bare knuckles, but it was not sanctioned.  8)

 

[Kat Stevens]

Everything of any value, fighting wise, was learned on my time, my dime.

 

[paracowboy]

Everything of any value, fighting wise, was learned on my time, my dime.

ditto

 

[Zartan]

Thank you all!

I'm actually tall (6'4") and weigh 76 kg, though by no means skinny.  I've been leaning towards Taekwondo more for self improvement than practicality, and also due to an abundance of schools within walking distance of me (three, one of which is about a 10 minutes walk from my house). There is no presence of Krav Maga in Calgary, so unfortunately, that is out of the question, and only one school of Muay Thai.
Thanks again,
Zartan

 

[Jarnhamar]

depends on the style and instructor. WTF is very sport oriented. Especially in the cookie-cutter,money-making dojangs found scattered throughout suburbia, along with Starbucks'n'bucks-for-a-cup-of-freakin'-coffee!

Very true. WTF was all about the sport aspect and competing.  That probably turned me off towards taekwondo as a self defense.

Good point about aikido. It's not something you learn in a few classes or a few years. You start learning Aikido after you've reached your black belt.  Some of the shit they do is amazing though, watching 6 guys get thrown around (without injury) is some serious control.

For soldiers of different sizes with different learning curves you'd want something simple and effecive.

If someone has the time for aikido it's a blast and makes you pretty hard to hit- just make sure you back it up with some type of ground fighting like judo or ju-jitsu

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

A long time member from Russian martial Arts came into my Gym looking to try his hand at some Brazilian jiu-Jitsu, and thai kick boxing. he walked in, and had his @ss handed to him on the mat.

Now, with his experience with Russian Martial Arts AND about the most efficient grappling and submission skills available in Canada... he's a scary guy.

Our unit has done unofficial grappling and such after Ex's as a joke, and to be honest... it's kind of sad. Of all people in society, soldiers shouldnt be the least aggressive...

 

[Delta]

Those high flying TKD kicks aren't going to do much good when you are wearing 50lbs of gear.

OMFG, hiliarious!!! I, too, have to say that it is more of sport than combat thing

if u want to do those feats pulled off by Tony Jaa (in a combat situation), remember, he didn't have his kit on

babicma, u dun happen to train at 'Fight Club' do you? i saw this Toronto tv magazine thing, where the show introduced this place that teaches Systema in a relaxed environment

 

[paracowboy]

well, in fairness to TKD, I've seen as many of it's stylists win scraps as any other system. Think about it: if someone can kick you in the head before you can stop it, how fast can he kick your knee?

It's not the style, it's the stylist. Anybody who tries to tell you that any system is automatically better than any other is either ignorant, or trying to sell you something.

 

[Island Ryhno]

Exactly. TKD is actually a great striking art IF you don't get caught up in the notion that the person you are fighting is going to do this or that. People with no formal martial arts training are dangerous foes, they just bull rush you, swinging and kicking and that is extremely hard to defend against. You have to remember it's a "defence" the idea being to keep them away from you. Also, a lot of the kicks and punches you see in Ultimate Fighter are derivetives of TKD and Boxing, it's called Muay Thai.

 

[paracowboy]

Also, a lot of the kicks and punches you see in Ultimate Fighter are derivetives of TKD and Boxing, it's called Muay Thai.

yes and no. Muay Thai is not derived from TKD or boxing. It is a purely Thai system, an offshoot of Krabbi Krabbong. Modern Muay Thai champs have begun to integrate western boxing into their system, because of its' superior hand strikes, as well as it's teaching of slipping a punch, and quick footwork.

Modern western kick-boxing is basically TKD kicks and boxing punches.

People with no formal martial arts training are dangerous foes, they just bull rush you, swinging and kicking and that is extremely hard to defend against.

spot on. I've long since lost count of the number of 'kungfoo/krotty' guys I've seen get their heads handed to them by street fighters.

 

[Kat Stevens]

spot on. I've long since lost count of the number of 'kungfoo/krotty' guys I've seen get their heads handed to them by street fighters.

All the flowery high kick multi spin arts are a thing of beauty to watch, between two trained practitioners.  A madly rushing and swinging gorilla on the street needs to be closed with and shut down in short order.  That's why I feel grappling, with a lot of choke and strangle holds, plus heavy use of joint locks is ideal. Almost every down and dirty scrap I was ever in ended up on the floor, very few standing back and jabbing each others head off.  The longer a fight lasts, the less your chance of escaping uninjured becomes.  Blitzkrieg, baby... hit hard, hit first, hit fast, get the f*ck outa Dodge... ;D

Kat

 

[Jarnhamar]

OMFG, hiliarious!!!

I think people are going to use cyber taekwondo if you keep using slang like that here

Teaching a little martial arts is a bad thing.
I'm not a fan of the odd hand to hand combat training that the army sometimes throws in as a space filler because it's dangerous.

Soldiers either
a. get a false sense of security (also very common with womens self defense classes)
b.  learn enough to seriously hurt someone but not enough control.
Imagine a protester or someone shoving a soldier and a soldier defends themselves by snapping a bone or something else else. Right to defend themselves aside, this is Canada. There would be a big investigation and you better bet the martial arts schools around bases would have to close shop pretty fast. "Soldiers learning how to kill with their hands, somalia bla bla bla"  Typical media.

I really like the idea of intrigrating martial arts into weekly PT. It's a good work out and will teach our soldiers how to defend themselves properly.

 

[Island Ryhno]

Modern western kick-boxing is basically TKD kicks and boxing punches.

Yes, sorry Para, this is basically what I was trying to say. The westernized version of Muay Thai. This is a great conversation, better than most I've had about MMA which go to shite in about three comments.

 

[paracowboy]

All the flowery high kick multi spin arts are a thing of beauty to watch, between two trained practitioners.   A madly rushing and swinging gorilla on the street needs to be closed with and shut down in short order.   That's why I feel grappling, with a lot of choke and strangle holds, plus heavy use of joint locks is ideal. Almost every down and dirty scrap I was ever in ended up on the floor, very few standing back and jabbing each others head off.   The longer a fight lasts, the less your chance of escaping uninjured becomes.   Blitzkrieg, baby... hit hard, hit first, hit fast, get the **** outa Dodge...

A-men! Preach it, brother! I feel that the best system is one that incorporates strikes, grappling, and the mysterious art of the 911 cell phone call. Learn to box! For the love of Heaven, get into a boxing ring. I've seen so many artists get seriously hurt by fighters because they don't practice hitting people or getting hit by people. Learn to kick - TKD, Karate, Muay Thai, savate... Learn to grapple - judo, jujitsu, chin'na, shuai chiao, wrestling. Gene LeBell once stated that Judo was wrestling with handles. Learn to have your cell phone handy and be able to call the cops, and survive while they get there. This is the first step towards your Shodan in "Court Kung Fu".
Failing your intention to study a modern eclectic system, I'd advise you to follow Bruce Lee's path and test your system against other styles. Take your Tae Kwan Do into a Wing Chun kwoon and spar with them. Go into a Judo dojo, a boxing ring, etc. Find a school that excells in weaponry, and try to defend yourself against knives and sticks.

Teaching a little martial arts is a bad thing.
I'm not a fan of the odd hand to hand combat training that the army sometimes throws in as a space filler because it's dangerous.

not to mention useless, since it takes hours and thousands of repititions for an act to be committed to muscle memory. When sensory exclusion hits, and fine motor skills go out the window, the body falls back on instinct. Training must become instinctive for it to become effective. That means thousands of kicks thrown, and thousands of throws received, and thousands of choke holds applied.
Properly.

Soldiers either
a. get a false sense of security (also very common with womens self defense classes)
b. learn enough to seriously hurt someone but not enough control.

very true. As witnessed every year in Meaford and Wainwright where young recruits get their heads torn off by street-fighting farm boys. 

I really like the idea of intrigrating martial arts into weekly PT. It's a good work out and will teach our soldiers how to defend themselves properly.

I think it should be mandatory. Not just to teach our soldiers how to survive, but to instill so many of the "manly graces". Failing to teach our troops how to survive Hand-to-Gland is negligent and criminal. Espcially in today's world of asymmetric warfare, when he may have to restrain a woman, shoot a man in the face, punch out an attacker, and try to keep the dog from biting his arse. All in the same friggin' room!

 

[FITSUMO]

paracowboy is right,
Try all the arts you can, learn how to effectively fight in every range, I trained in a very street wise JKD school, where we would invite teachers from other schools and learn what might be effective for us.  Never leave home without a little Kali, jkd,  BJJ, boxing, and muay thai. As was said earlier, most "streetfights" will end up on the ground, but you never want to stay there, ( think guys friends playing soccer with your head).  I love BJJ, but if you are worried about street fights/street defense you should find a school that teaches vale tudo.  A buddy of mine, who is a great BJJ guy, got a concussion from moi when we allowed punching, so it is very important to understand the ground and pound concept

Being a 22 year vet of martail arts and 14 years of bouncing, ( going to state the obvious, but it needs to be said) leave your ego at the door( hard for alpha types) and always try and spar with people that are way better than you, you will take your lumps but you will grow very fast.

train hard.

 

[Zarathustra]

I would add that martial arts should deal with weapons and multi-attackers otherwise it's just sport. It should also allow you to kill/incapacitate an opponent quickly. The referee cannot decide who won.

But why isn't some of this taught in the CF ? Lack of instructors? Too long to learn ? Preference for bullets and high-tech solutions ?

 

[Island Ryhno]

Here is something that we are adding into our Combat System that we are developing at our martial arts school. It's called San Shou and is an excellent fighting technique which mixes take downs with strikes. We've added our Judo and Ju Jitsu to it, so after a takedown you would try for a submission armbar or choke. I'll let you guys know how it goes. http://www.chanskungfu.com/videos/danda.wmv

 

[Mojo Magnum]

nice stuff
interesting that they don't go to submission.
More fun to watch.

 

[Jaxson]

A little off topic...

But Like fitsumo i did some bouncing (6 months for me opposed to his 14 years) and you would be surprised how nuts it can get in some bars and how when your back to back with people and you got 2 guys with pool cues or a beer bottle coming at you, you realize just how damn quick you need to react. I saw this one guy who had just started bouncing at this club i worked at, when i was in my last month ( what happened to him was the reason i quit cause it was too crazy for 100$ a night)   anyways this fresh bouncer with his "Ive done 6 years of boxing don't worry about me attitude" had a pool cue snapped over his head and had the now very sharp and jagged end jammed into his leg, at which point he fell and took a steel toed boot to the head 4 times, i saw the guy about 2-3 months after that, and his tough guy attitude had to say the least disappeared. Oh ya and the whole incident happened because the bouncer asked him to step away from the patio door cause he (the drunk) was in the way.