The Great Gun Control Debate

[ballz]

See attached graph o' your numbers (with linear trend line in red)

Sure, slightly downward (far from "dramatic")......... just like it has been since 1979, according to the graph on page 3 http://www.statcan.gc.ca/studies-etudes/82-003/feature-caracteristique/5018873-eng.pdf

*I realize that my numbers were "totals" and the graph shown by Stats Canada is per 100,000.... Unfortunately there's a lack of numbers, but the point is the slight declining trend has been there since 1979

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My guns have killed less people than Michael Bryant's car. Good thing it was registered

 

[RangerRay]

Licensing keeps firearms out of the hands of depressed people, not registration.

If you have a PAL and want to off yourself, having to register your shotgun is not going to stop you.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Licensing helps to keep firearms out of the hands of depressed people, not registration.

If you have a PAL and want to off yourself, having to register your shotgun is not going to stop you.

There, fixed that for you. :bowing:

 

[RangerRay]

There, fixed that for you. :bowing:

Danke shoen!

 

[Bass ackwards]

"The Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians says the gun registry issue is not one of crime prevention, but of suicide prevention."

Then are they not, in effect, saying that they realize registration will eventually lead to confiscation -of all firearms ?

I'm no doctor -I've never even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express- but I'm pretty sure that eating a registered 12 gauge won't make you any less dead than eating an unregistered  one.

 

[Sig_Des]

Licensing  helps to keep firearms out of the hands of depressed people, not registration.

If anything, the 45 day wait time (if lucky) would only depress them more!

 

[RangerRay]

If anything, the 45 day wait time (if lucky) would only depress them more!

If you already have a PAL, buying and registering a shotgun takes place the same day, most likely within an hour.  No one assesses your mental state at the time of purchase/registration.

If you don't have a history of mental illness (or don't indicate one) on your PAL application, and if the background check doesn't pick it up, you will have no problem buying and registering a rifle or shotgun to off yourself.

In short, having a mental illness may prevent you from getting a PAL, but if you already have a PAL, mental illness will not prevent you from registering a rifle of shotgun.

That, to me, is why the "suicide argument" in favour of the registration, is specious at best.

 

[ballz]

umpkin: Halloween was fun ;D

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm no doctor -I've never even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express-

I have!!  ;D

Seriously - anyone intent on committing suicide will find a way.

Take the guns away? A rope may be the alternate means - or a single vehicle accident - knife - pills - take you pick.

 

[Robert0288]

Take the guns away? A rope may be the alternate means - or a single vehicle accident - knife - pills - take you pick.

Exactly, I don't have the stats in front of me at the moment but in toronto there was a bridge that was frequently used for suicides.  So to take away that option a multi million dollar fence was put up to keep people from jumping.  It was heralded as a great suicide prevention measure.  Until you looked at the increase in suicides on other bridges in the area and the increase of suicides at home.  Did it stop suicides on the bridge? Yes.  Did it have an over all impact on suicides? No.  If you want to stop suicides invest in mental health not by trying, and failing to take away one of the many options for committing suicide.

 

[mariomike]

Exactly, I don't have the stats in front of me at the moment but in toronto there was a bridge that was frequently used for suicides. 

You are likely thinking of the Bloor Viaduct:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/748687--the-fatal-attraction-of-suicide-magnets

 

[Brad Sallows]

The only anti-suicide argument that makes any sense with respect to guns is that guns are altogether too swift and final for people who are only making a gesture for attention.  But liberty is sloppy and messy; we are not going to be able to protect all people from all things; life is not priceless; so - plea ignored.

 

[NavyShooter]

If you want to ban guns to reduce suicides, we'd better ban bridges to keep people from jumping, and razors to keep 'em from cutting.

 

[Loachman]

Rope "kills" more people than those methods.

There is a much higher rate of suicide in homes where rope is present than in homes where no rope is present.

Rope over ninety-pound test should not be sold to people under eighteen, people under the care of a psychiatrist, or people taking anti-depressants, in lengths over two feet. Rope should not be sold in any colour other than its natural one, as coloured rope is more attractive and may encourage the sale of rope.

Of course, those people would simply double or triple this rope, and tie it into longer lengths as necessary, but such restrictions would be hugely symbolic and serve as a memorial to the thousands who have committed suicide by any method.

It is not important if these restrictions are practical or enforceable, or if they do not reduce the overall suicide rate, so long as they reduce the rate of rope deaths.

 

[The Bread Guy]

As for the "sharability" of all that information.....

Canada's privacy watchdog shot a big hole Tuesday in one of the Harper government's main arguments for destroying the records compiled by the long-gun registry.

Jennifer Stoddart said there's nothing in the Privacy Act that prevents the federal government from sharing the data with provincial governments.

The privacy commissioner said the act actually permits disclosure of personal information, provided it's done through a federal-provincial agreement for the purpose of administering or enforcing any law or carrying out a lawful investigation.

Quebec wants to use the data to create its own gun registry.

But the Conservative government, which has introduced legislation to scrap the controversial national registry, has flatly refused to share the records.

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews last week maintained that transferring the data to Quebec would violate the Privacy Act.

When the registry was created, Toews said gun owners were compelled to provide personal information "for a specific purpose with respect to a specific piece of legislation."

"The government cannot say now that it will ignore the Privacy Act or the commitments it has made in Parliament and transfer that information with the intent to use it in a non-authorized manner," he told the Commons.

However, in a response to a query from New Democrat MP Dennis Bevington, Stoddart said the Privacy Act "permits the disclosure of personal information" through federal-provincial agreements.

"Therefore, in appropriate circumstances, an information sharing agreement or arrangement put in place for the purpose of administering or enforcing any law (including provincial law) could assist to ensure any transfer of personal information was in conformity with the Privacy Act."

Toews' office did not immediately respond.

In the House of Commons, interim NDP leader Nycole Turmel pressed the government on its refusal to share the registry data.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper repeated the government's position that it will "not do anything to support the creation of registry by other levels of government."....

The Canadian Press, 2 Nov 11
.... the next question becomes:  is (political) Ottawa willing to make such agreements?  Methinks not.  Will Quebec go the court route to get the info?  Stay tuned....

 

[PuckChaser]

The information wouldn't be used for enforcing or administering a law, since the law won't exist. The only thing that would get them the information, is if they created their registries ahead of time, which they won't do without the information. Catch-22 finally in favour of lawful long-gun owners.

 

[NavyShooter]

Rope "kills" more people than those methods.

There is a much higher rate of suicide in homes where rope is present than in homes where no rope is present.

Rope over ninety-pound test should not be sold to people under eighteen, people under the care of a psychiatrist, or people taking anti-depressants, in lengths over two feet. Rope should not be sold in any colour other than its natural one, as coloured rope is more attractive and may encourage the sale of rope.

Of course, those people would simply double or triple this rope, and tie it into longer lengths as necessary, but such restrictions would be hugely symbolic and serve as a memorial to the thousands who have committed suicide by any method.

It is not important if these restrictions are practical or enforceable, or if they do not reduce the overall suicide rate, so long as they reduce the rate of rope deaths.

Allow me to correct the last paragraph for you:

It is not important if these restrictions are practical or enforceable, or if they do not reduce the overall suicide rate, so long as they give the public a nice warm fuzzy feeling and politicians something to talk about in the media.

 

[Robert0288]

You are likely thinking of the Bloor Viaduct:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/748687--the-fatal-attraction-of-suicide-magnets

Thats the one, thank you.

 

[OldSolduer]

Allow me to correct the last paragraph for you:

It is not important if these restrictions are practical or enforceable, or if they do not reduce the overall suicide rate, so long as they give the public a nice warm fuzzy feeling and politicians something to talk about in the media.

You, sir, are absolutely correct. You could say that about airport security as well.


Cheers!