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The Great Gun Control Debate

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I might add that "jury rigging" even an AR-15 to fire in full automatic mode isn't a simple operation, and the would be gang banger turned gun plumber runs a risk of rendering the firearm totally inoperable instead (which might explain why there have been no examples of the use of automatic firearms in the commission of a crime in the period under discussion).

As usual, a stupid headline for "theatre" rather than a serious examination of a problem.
 
If criminals want automatic weapons, they buy them from their sources - they don't screw around with mods.
 
Why would any responsible person want to bugger the operation up on a serviceable firearm and modify it to full automatic? If you have the money to buy the ammunition you would waste and the firearm you render useless and a legal liability you could afford to go to legal range and fire something full auto in a proper manner.

A nut case that intends to use a modified full auto on people would have to go to an incredible amount of easily detectable effort to do this. Besides, full auto is useless anyway unless you are using it for battlefield suppression or trench clearing. Well aimed shots are more useful.

Modifying something like the numerous semi autos on the street now would mostly produce hard to control, inaccurate weapons. Criminals would much prefer the full auto sub machinegun for their purposes. I am sure they are more readily available on the down low than obtaining inferior modified semi autos at much greater effort and expense.

I am sure this is the reason why this issue has never been a crime that has caused any societal problems of any significance.

So, back to the whole gun control issue; this is just another red herring that greatly interferes with law abiding firearms owners and does nothing to aid the root cause of gun related crime violence.
 
>If you have the money to buy the ammunition you would waste and the firearm you render useless and a legal liability you could afford to go to legal range and fire something full auto in a proper manner.

Exactly.  Surely anyone who wants to rock-and-roll can do it legally and cheaply by taking a US vacation and finding a range that caters to it.
 
As I recall the scumbag at polytechnique tried to make his mini-14 full auto and it failed and his gun was jamming because of that.

Frankly at any range over 25m you like stand a better chance against someone with a full auto who never trained on one vs a semi-auto rifle.

any gun can be made full auto

GD3zOdr.jpg
 
Whoah! Is that a frankenstein previously bolt action .303 enfield?
 
yep the Charlton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlton_Automatic_Rifle



Meanwhile a sponsored 15 page spread of positive firearm articles and ads in a popular free paper here in Vancouver https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxu7MPSjtCBTejk0clQybXBfbWc/view


 
How about moving back to the 1800's....

An automatic Lever Action conversion, using the muzzle gasses to actuate a lever:

US471782-0.png


Led to the design of the "Potato Digger" machine-gun.

How about this variant of the Ross Rifle....tested alongside the Lewis:

huot1.jpg


latest


http://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-huot-machine-rifle-a-ross-conversion/

When compared to the Lewis, the Huot was found to be very competitive. It was better at snap-shooting from a trench, and faster to bring into action. Except for overly-thick cartridge rims, the Huot was faster to clear all types of malfunction than the Lewis, and it was simpler to disassemble. Testing at Enfield in April and May went for 10,000 rounds (which thoroughly trashed the Huot’s barrel; it was found to be keyholing after 6,000 rounds). The Huot was found to be less accurate than the Lewis, although this is probably at least partly due to the sights being attached to the barrel shroud, which was found to have rattled its rivets loose over the course of testing. Lastly, the testers at Enfield complained about the shape of the butt making it difficult to get a good grip on the weapon (not surprising, given the bulk and location of the action cover).

Overall, the Huot had 33 parts directly interchangeable with the Ross M1910 rifle, plus 11 parts that had to be modified from the rifle and an additional 56 parts that had to be made from scratch.

So why was the weapon rejected despite such promising test results? Simple – it wasn’t sufficiently better than the Lewis to justify the expense of retooling production and retraining soldiers. And, of course, once the war ended the existing supply of Lewis guns was suddenly far more than would be needed by a peacetime Army, and there was no need to look for additional such arms.
 
The article is a bit too long to quote but some interesting points about what happened including a never before mentioned point that there was a 3rd man.

It's hard not to feel bad for the woman who lost her brother but reading the article you still get the impression she's looking for other people to blame for her brother coming up behind someone and assaulting them unprovoked.

What happened in McDonald’s when a Toronto security guard shot and killed two men

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/what-happened-the-night-an-off-duty-security-shot-and-killed-two-men-in-a-toronto-mcdonalds
Brenda has reached out to Julian Falconer — the lawyer representing Sammy Yatim’s family after the Toronto teen was infamously shot and killed by police on a streetcar — looking for help. She wants to know why the guard was alone, why he was armed on his break, and if any extra training could have prevented the shooting.
“Ryan’s life had to mean something,” Brenda said. “Just letting it go — no accountability for anybody, no changes so this won’t happen to someone else — then he died for nothing.”



 
Jarnhamar said:
It's hard not to feel bad for the woman who lost her brother but reading the article you still get the impression she's looking for other people to blame for her brother coming up behind someone and assaulting them unprovoked.

What happened in McDonald’s when a Toronto security guard shot and killed two men

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/what-happened-the-night-an-off-duty-security-shot-and-killed-two-men-in-a-toronto-mcdonalds


“There has to be changes so this won’t happen again. Nobody else should have to go through this,” she said...”

Are you kidding me? Three (2?) men just walk up and assault someone for absolutely no reason and it's a tragedy? Who knows how far these men were planning on taking it, but at a minimum they were going to cause some very serious and possibly permanent damage. That guard was absolutely justified in his actions!

She wants to know... if any extra training could have prevented the shooting

Yes, from now on all security personnel, whether Police or GardaWorld employees, must spend years training in multiple disciplines of martial arts, and must achieve a very high level before employment, so that they can single handedly take on multiple assailants who also enjoy the element of surprise...

People...
 
Old Sweat said:
NS

I thought the "Potato Digger" was made by Colt.

Yes, it was a Colt product, but, in fact, it was based off JMB's design:

"The Colt–Browning M1895, nicknamed "potato digger" because of its unusual operating mechanism, is an air-cooled, belt-fed, gas-operated machine gun that fires from a closed bolt with a cyclic rate of 450 rounds per minute. Based on a John Browning design dating to 1889, it was the first successful gas-operated machine gun to enter service."  (Sourced from the 'all knowing' wikipedia...)
 
https://nncfb.ca/rcmp-reclassify-akdal-mka-1919-from-restricted-to-non-restricted/

Is this legit? AR-10s are non-restricted?

Can someone with more knowledge than myself explain to me if there is a difference between the AR-15 and AR-10 than I am not aware of? All I am tracking is the larger calibre of an AR-10 and of course, the larger parts in general to accommodate it.
 
there is a lot going on behind the scenes which I admit has me puzzled but hopefully. If all goes well there should be more interesting news by next month.
 
ballz said:
https://nncfb.ca/rcmp-reclassify-akdal-mka-1919-from-restricted-to-non-restricted/

Is this legit? AR-10s are non-restricted?

Can someone with more knowledge than myself explain to me if there is a difference between the AR-15 and AR-10 than I am not aware of? All I am tracking is the larger calibre of an AR-10 and of course, the larger parts in general to accommodate it.

That one is a 12 gauge shotgun
 
Jarnhamar said:
That one is a 12 gauge shotgun

Yes but apparently the reason it is non-restricted is because it more closely resembles the AR-10 than the AR-15. That, to me, implies that AR-10s are non-restricted.
 
ballz said:
Yes but apparently the reason it is non-restricted is because it more closely resembles the AR-10 than the AR-15. That, to me, implies that AR-10s are non-restricted.

Oh I see what you mean.
Yea it's weird the AR15 is just a smaller version of the AR10 for all intents and purposes.  AR10s are still restricted however the ATRS Modern Hunter is near identical on the outside to an AR10 yet it's non-restricted.

 
I believe the original AR-10 (those that aren't fully automatic or converted autos, so about 10 of them) are actually non-restricted. The AR-15 is based off those original AR-10s however it is a different design. Modern AR-10s are based off the AR-15.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
I believe the original AR-10 (those that aren't fully automatic or converted autos, so about 10 of them) are actually non-restricted. The AR-15 is based off those original AR-10s however it is a different design. Modern AR-10s are based off the AR-15.

It's utterly ridiculous to say that.  Now that is what the RCMP lab says, but if you look at the original Stoner AR-10, the AR-15, then the Reed Knight/Gene Stoner SR-25 and the way they where created, the AR-15 had much less to do with the SR-25 (which was the first modern AR-10) than the original AR-10.
  Some parts where used initially, but many found not to work.
The second AR-10's (Armalite/Eagle Arms) where even less like the AR-15, using M-14 magazines that where modified.

The whole system is broken for the Prohibited/Restricted/ and NR classes anyway.


 
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