The Great Gun Control Debate

[Journeyman]

Hell, we could even make them all pink to people even happier

www.glamguns.com    ;D

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

This is why I was only being half-sarcastic when I said we should destroy all exisiting guns and replace them with only 1 or 2 designs for rifles and shotguns made by a single manufacturer.  Sure, it'd be no fun, but you wouldn't get cought up with all these stupid little nuances. Hell, we could even make them all pink to people even happier

Let's also do the same with automobiles.  The government should ban all cars and trucks and allow the production of only one variant of each.  Every automobile will have a governor installed on it that maxes out at 105km/h.  The government can take over production of all vehicles as well.

That way we can all drive Lada's for the rest of our lives.

 

[Lumber]

Let's also do the same with automobiles.  The government should ban all cars and trucks and allow the production of only one variant of each.  Every automobile will have a governor installed on it that maxes out at 105km/h.  The government can take over production of all vehicles as well.

That way we can all drive Lada's for the rest of our lives.

In light of your compelling juxtaposition, I would like to change my proportion to being three-quarters sarcastic.

 

[Bass ackwards]

Never said I actually have any guns, just hypothesizing  ;D

Laws like this aren't worth the paper they are printed on.  Most people that I know that own guns are folks from rural backgrounds who grew up with them(that includes me) or folks that still live in the country.  Want to know how many of them actually registered their firearms when the LGR came in to being?  Not that many. 

I'm all for licensing and training for people that want firearms.  I'm also for an extensive background check system, additional training to own a handgun and requirement to register it, etc... But this madness about banning guns simply because the stocks are made of polymer as opposed to wood is where I draw the line.

 

Let's apply some common sense to this discussion.  What separates a Robinson Arms XCR chambered in 5.56mm from an AR-15 variant?  They both fire the exact same round and they both are semi-auto.  The only difference is the Robinson Arms XCR uses a Kalashnikov style long-stroke gas piston while the AR-15 uses a direct-impingement gas piston.  Yet one is Non-restricted while the other is a Restricted Weapon because when the law was written it looked scary.

Note the Kalashnikov family are all banned in Canada, even the civilian variants, because they look scary, yet the Robinson Arms XCR uses the exact same sort of gas system but it's non-restricted.  This is the type of stupidity we deal with as gun owners.

You're preaching to the choir, partner.

Look at the firearm that started all this nonsense; Marc Lepine/Gamil Gharbi's Ruger Mini-14. It's a semi auto, comes in two military calibres and can be tarted up with all manner of folding, black/camo, military style stocks. And it never did make the hit parade of restricted weapons -presumably because when you look at it in most catalogues, it has a wooden stock similar to the one on my Winchester Model 70 bolt action.

I used to have my doubts about the NRA. I wondered if maybe they weren't being a bit irresponsible, but nowadays I think they have the right idea. Don't give an inch. At least not until the other side gets their collective act together, becomes knowledgable on the subject they're talking about and stops targeting the law abiding while ignoring the people who are causing the problems.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

You're preaching to the choir, partner.

Look at the firearm that started all this nonsense; Marc Lepine/Gamil Gharbi's Ruger Mini-14. It's a semi auto, comes in two military calibres and can be tarted up with all manner of folding, black/camo, military style stocks. And it never did make the hit parade of restricted weapons -presumably because when you look at it in most catalogues, it has a wooden stock similar to the one on my Winchester Model 70 bolt action.

I used to have my doubts about the NRA. I wondered if maybe they weren't being a bit irresponsible, but nowadays I think they have the right idea. Don't give an inch. At least not until the other side gets their collective act together, becomes knowledgable on the subject they're talking about and stops targeting the law abiding while ignoring the people who are causing the problems.

This is why I refuse to get in to a debate with anyone the minute they show they have no knowledge of how firearms work mechanically.  If you don't understand the science/technical aspects of something than your opinion is worthless IMO.

 

[George Wallace]

......  Every automobile will have a governor installed on it that maxes out at 105km/h. 

That there is one of the most absurd and probably most dangerous suggestions I have read.  I would, in my opinion, state that the "governors placed on trucks" is one of the most dangerous factor contributing to many accidents and traffic snarls on Hwy 401 between Windsor and Montreal.  Too many tractor trailers do not have the capability to pass other trucks on the highway and land up blocking faster moving other vehicles when they make those attempts to pass. 

In Germany, it is illegal for transport trucks to drive in the LEFT Lane.  That provides some relief to traffic congestion, but still not a 100% solution.  I would like to see the same rules applied here. 

That being said, your analogy is quite faulty.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

That there is one of the most absurd and probably most dangerous suggestions I have read.  I would, in my opinion, state that the "governors placed on trucks" is one of the most dangerous factor contributing to many accidents and traffic snarls on Hwy 401 between Windsor and Montreal.  Too many tractor trailers do not have the capability to pass other trucks on the highway and land up blocking faster moving other vehicles when they make those attempts to pass. 

In Germany, it is illegal for transport trucks to drive in the LEFT Lane.  That provides some relief to traffic congestion, but still not a 100% solution.  I would like to see the same rules applied here. 

That being said, your analogy is quite faulty.

It was meant to be  ;D

My proposition is as ridiculous as some of the ridiculous firearms laws we have.  I'm not anti-regulation like some on here but until the government can convince me that they won't go "full retard" in their attempt to appease all the folks who are afraid of everything up to and including, their own shadow, I am on side with the die hards who believe that if we give an inch they will take a mile. 

All for one and one for all!

 

[Kat Stevens]

I can see a run on PVC sewer pipe and cleanout caps at Home Depot in the near future.  Get yours now before it becomes illegal too.

 

[Lumber]

I can see a run on PVC sewer pipe and cleanout caps at Home Depot in the near future.  Get yours now before it becomes illegal too.

You can't compare guns to pipe bombs.

Kids don't reach into their mother's purpses and accidently blow their mother's up with a pipe bomb their mother's just happened to be carrying around.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mom-killed-in-wal-mart-accidental-shooting-kept-gun-in-special-pocket/

 

[Kat Stevens]

Really?  Pipe bombs?  You think that's where I was going?  Holy fuck, thanks for that, you must be very fit from leaping to conclusions like that.

 

[Lumber]

Really?  Pipe bombs? You think that's where I was going?   Holy frig, thanks for that, you must be very fit from leaping to conclusions like that.

Well... yes. Considering you can make pipe bombs out of PVC piping and this post from Geroge Wallace the other day:

Yuup!  The madness will only spread:

Sorry if that's not what you meant. Were you referring to a Potato Gun?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

op:

 

[McG]

It looks like the US debate has made its way to this side of the boarder.

What Canada’s lax gun laws are costing us … in blood
By Jeff Sallot
iPolitics
08 Dec 2015

The monstrous scale of the gun problem in the United States blinds us to the fact that we’ve got a gun problem too.

We get all holier-than-thou every time we hear about the latest gun massacre in the U.S. — at an office Christmas luncheon in San Bernardino, at a Marine Corps recruiting office in Chattanooga, at a community college campus in Oregon. We shouldn’t be smug.

Their gun problem is ours as well. When Canadians start shooting, they often use a gun made in the U.S. and smuggled across the border.

Yes, gun ownership rates are lower here. It’s also true that gun-related homicide rates in Canada are about seven times lower than they are in the United States. (Our rate is 0.5 per 100,000 people versus 3.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.) But are comparative rates supposed to comfort the family of Cpl. Nathan Cirillo, the young soldier who was murdered last year while performing ceremonial guard duty at the national war monument?

He was shot in the back three times by a fellow Canadian who hated Canadian military involvement in the Middle East. The shooter used a low-tech, lever-action Winchester rifle, like the gun TV cowboy Lorne Green toted around the Ponderosa.

The Mounties still can’t seem to figure out where Cirillo’s killer got his gun. They haven’t dropped the investigation because they still want to put an illegal gun dealer out of business and behind bars. The police also think tracing the provenance of the Winchester might lead to other would-be terrorists.

The San Bernardino massacre last week was awful. But we can’t forget that we’ve had our own mass shootings in Canada. Mayerthorpe, Alberta ten years ago — four Mounties killed. Moncton, New Brunswick last year — three Mounties killed. Last Sunday was the heartbreaking 26th anniversary of the murder of 14 women at École Polytechnique de Montréal. Friends and families still gather to mourn. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau attended the memorial service. Once again, flags at federal buildings and other locations across the country were flown at half-staff.

In one hour, one misogynous man — with one gun — snuffed out 14 lives.

Mass murders aren’t easily forgotten. Nor should they be. But even a single gun death is a needless tragedy for someone’s friends and family. They never forget.

With this in mind, let’s take a closer look at international comparisons, compiled by Statistics Canada in its most recent report on gun violence. There are questions we need to ask.

Why are our gun death rates fifty times higher than those in Japan? Why are they almost ten times higher than British and German rates?

Why are Canadian rates at least twice as high as those in Austria, Sweden, Denmark and Australia?

Are we inherently more violent? No. These other countries have lower rates because they have tougher gun laws. It’s really that simple.

In Australia, it took a massacre of 35 people in a Tasmanian café in 1996 to rally the political will to bring in strict gun control laws. The reforms included a mandatory gun buy-back program that cost the government hundreds of millions of dollars. The Australian gun death rate is now about half of what it was before the reforms.

Handguns are of particular concern to law enforcement agencies in Canada, and elsewhere, because these weapons are easily concealed and smuggled. They are the preferred murder weapon of criminal gangs.

About half of the gun deaths in Canada are gang-related, StatsCan says. And almost two-thirds of the victims of gun violence are people who were strangers to the shooter. This means a lot of innocent bystanders are being wounded and killed by gangs.

In Ottawa, police say most of the city’s 42 shooting incidents so far this year are gang-related. The police chief beefed up his guns-and-gangs squad last month. The mayor also is asking city council for approval to hire more cops.

Armed street gangs are a scourge in big cities across the country. After a period of decline, the street gang problem began trending up two years ago. But the Conservative government’s gun policy remained fixated on dismantling the federal long-gun registry system — a good idea that was badly implemented and managed by the previous Liberal government.

Stephen Harper’s government could have done so much more on gun control. Bowing to pressure from the gun lobby, the Harper government never implemented regulations to force manufacturers to stamp guns with markings that would make it easier for police to trace a weapon’s origin. For ten years, the Tories kept delaying the regs. The gun lobby argued the marking plan would be too costly to implement, costing maybe as much as $200 per gun.

The Liberals now say they will implement the gun marking regulations quickly. The new government promises to implement enhanced background checks for those buying handguns. They will require gun shops to keep better records of gun inventories and sales. The Liberals also will require gun owners to get a permit if they intend to transport guns from one location to another.

They also promise to provide $100 million a year to the provinces to help pay for more guns-and-gangs police squads. The Liberals say they want to invest in new technologies that can better detect guns during border checks.

Will these reforms be enough? We’ll see.

I’m a city guy; personally I don’t see much need for anyone to own a gun. I don’t hunt to put meat on my table and I don’t see what’s so sporting about shooting unarmed wildlife at a distance with a high-powered rifle and telescopic scope. But my grandfather had a farm and he kept a shotgun to kill gophers. (Maybe that’s still the only way to eradicate these pests.)

So, I’m open to a discussion. I can be persuaded by a rational argument to allow private gun ownership, under effective controls, for people who really need guns. But we’re never going to have that debate if we stick our heads in a gopher hole and pretend we don’t have a problem.

We have to start by acknowledging that our proximity to the U.S. means their gun problems eventually — inevitably — sweep north. 

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/12/08/what-canadas-lax-gun-laws-are-costing-us-in-blood/

 

[McG]

... and here is the StatsCan site referenced in the article above:  http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2014001/article/11925-eng.htm

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Lumber] 


Sorry if that's not what you meant. Were you referring to a Potato Gun?
[/quote]

Yea he really dug himself into a hole with that one.

Are you a firearm owner lumber,  out of curiosity?

 

[Lumber]

Yea he really dug himself into a hole with that one.

Are you a firearm owner lumber,  out of curiosity?

Negative. Took the PAL courses but never got around to buying one. I like window shopping for them, but I just don't think I'd get enough use out of one to warrant spending the money.

 

[mariomike]

"The shooter used a low-tech, lever-action Winchester rifle, like the gun TV cowboy Lorne Green toted around the Ponderosa."

Kids in my neighbourhood were Chuck Connors fans, not Pa Cartwright. Because Chuck was an artist with a Winchester,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrOPVo5GFY4

 

[Zoomie]

I can see a run on PVC sewer pipe and cleanout caps at Home Depot in the near future.  Get yours now before it becomes illegal too.

Just so we can each compare our thought processes - I envision the above items being used to store rifles, presumably underground.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Negative. Took the PAL courses but never got around to buying one. I like window shopping for them, but I just don't think I'd get enough use out of one to warrant spending the money.

.22cal is a gateway drug. Get a 10/22 to start.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

.22cal is a gateway drug. Get a 10/22 to start.

Followed by an SKS and a few crates of Warsaw Pact surplus, guaranteed crack addict afterwards!