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The Great Gun Control Debate

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Loachman said:
No. Wrong.

The difference is fully explained in the names.

Firearms Acquisition Certificate - needed to acquire firearms legally.

Possession and Acquisition Licence - needed to continue to own your lawfully-owned property without going to jail.

Prior to 1995 Firearms Act: Own firearms, have no FAC, live in your house.

Since 1995 Firearms Act: Own firearms, have no PAL, live in the Big House.

Licensing is a far greater evil than registration.

Thank you for pointing that out. I need a further explanation I think (you could count my age on one hand prior to the 1995 Firearms Act, so I am not too familiar with the pre-Firearms Act world).

If I understand what you pointed out correctly, without an FAC you couldn't purchase a firearm, but you could own/possess one legally? So if someone can't get an FAC (because they are a violent criminal), but they get their friend to buy one for them, or obtain it through the black market, then they are now legally allowed to possess said firearm and the police can't do SFA about it?
 
ballz said:
If I understand what you pointed out correctly, without an FAC you couldn't purchase a firearm, but you could own/possess one legally?

Yes, provided that you owned it prior to the FAC regime coming into effect, or acquired it while holding a valid FAC, which subsequently expired (they were valid for five years).

ballz said:
So if someone can't get an FAC (because they are a violent criminal), but they get their friend to buy one for them, or obtain it through the black market, then they are now legally allowed to possess said firearm and the police can't do SFA about it?

No, because they would not have been a holder of a valid FAC at the time of acquisition from the friend. "Buying" is not the only method of acquiring something. "Receiving as a gift" is another. In your scenario, both parties would have committed an offence. Proving that an unlawful transaction had taken place may be a challenge, however.
 
So I can un-bury tomorrow?  Hey should we all go and shoot in the air to celebrate?



edited to remove a childish amount of emoticons, contrary to site policy
 
Straight from the horses mouth.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm

Changes to the Canadian Firearms Program
On April 5, 2012, Bill C-19, Ending the Long-Gun Registry Act, came into effect. The key changes are as follows:
• Removal of the requirement to register non-restricted firearms
• Destruction of the existing non-restricted firearms registration records
• Allowing the transferor of a non-restricted firearm to obtain confirmation of a transferee’s firearms acquisition licence prior to the transfer being finalized
Until further notice, due to a Court Order issued by the Quebec Superior Court, residents of Quebec are still required to register non-restricted firearms with the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program.
It is important to note that the new law does not change the requirement for all individuals to hold a licence in order to possess a firearm. The licensing, safety training and safe storage requirements for anyone who uses or owns a firearm continue to be in force.
The legislation also does not impact registration requirements for restricted or prohibited firearms.
 
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120405/long-gun-data-destroyed-today-unless-judge-steps-in-120405/20120405/?hub=MontrealHome

Que. judge halts destruction of gun registry data
 
Can we get the Bloc Québecois to run in other provinces, so that we can vote them into Parliament in a majority status, and then have Quebec booted the fuck out of Canada?  Please?
 
I didn't know there were proposed new regulations concerning ammunition -which are now, thankfully, on hold according to this CNEWS article:
(reproduced under the fair dealings provision of the Copyright Act)

Feds back off proposed ammo rules
By Jessica Murphy, Parliamentary Bureau

OTTAWA - The federal government is backing down from proposed strict new ammunition regulations after receiving complaints from gun owners.

"Those regulations were brought to my attention a day or two ago," said Public Safety Minister Vic Toews on Thursday. "That was a discussion I think was mainly inside the bureaucracy, and I just reiterate that is not regulations that will proceed as proposed."

The draft regulations, made public in March, included proposals that had ammunition being locked up and added severe new restrictions on the quantity of ammunition someone could own and store.

Solomon Friedman, an Ottawa-based firearms lawyer, said it smacked of "restrictions for restrictions' sake."

Natural Resources Canada, the federal department in charge explosives regulations, argued Canada's rules need updating. The previous laws were written in 1920.

But some gun owners balked at the proposals, saying they could interfere with law-abiding practices like hunting and target shooting.

The proposed regulations are currently under a review period while the government seeks public feedback.

Other proposed changes to the regulations include tighter controls on the packaging of consumer fireworks and a safety information campaign for consumers.


Article link:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/04/05/19599941.html
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120405/long-gun-data-destroyed-today-unless-judge-steps-in-120405/20120405/?hub=MontrealHome

Que. judge halts destruction of gun registry data

They only stopped the destruction as far as it concerns Quebec. The rest of Canada, without Quebec addresses, is ok and the destruction of those records is to commence forthwith.
 
Bass ackwards said:
I didn't know there were proposed new regulations concerning ammunition -which are now, thankfully, on hold according to this CNEWS article:
(reproduced under the fair dealings provision of the Copyright Act)

Feds back off proposed ammo rules
By Jessica Murphy, Parliamentary Bureau

OTTAWA - The federal government is backing down from proposed strict new ammunition regulations after receiving complaints from gun owners.

"Those regulations were brought to my attention a day or two ago," said Public Safety Minister Vic Toews on Thursday. "That was a discussion I think was mainly inside the bureaucracy, and I just reiterate that is not regulations that will proceed as proposed."

The draft regulations, made public in March, included proposals that had ammunition being locked up and added severe new restrictions on the quantity of ammunition someone could own and store.

Solomon Friedman, an Ottawa-based firearms lawyer, said it smacked of "restrictions for restrictions' sake."

Natural Resources Canada, the federal department in charge explosives regulations, argued Canada's rules need updating. The previous laws were written in 1920.

But some gun owners balked at the proposals, saying they could interfere with law-abiding practices like hunting and target shooting.

The proposed regulations are currently under a review period while the government seeks public feedback.

Other proposed changes to the regulations include tighter controls on the packaging of consumer fireworks and a safety information campaign for consumers.


Article link:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/04/05/19599941.html

The Feds aren't backing off it. What they are doing is stopping a liberal bastion of public servants from creating a gun control agenda outside of the pervue of the Safety Minister. The esconded liberals within Natural Resources Canada tried to create a roadblock to legitamate gun owners after the darling program of Alan Rock hit the brick wall. They wanted to ensure that if the Tories were going to let you keep your guns, they would ensure that you wouldn't be able to keep ammo for them.They got caught, shut down and with luck, will be replaced in short order for trying to decieve Canadians and trying to perpetuate the liberal (communist) utopian vision of a firearms free society.
 
fraserdw said:
So I can un-bury tomorrow?  Hey should we all go and shoot in the air to celebrate?

Sure. Now that we've convinced people we're responsible enough to be trusted with our firearms, without the libs draconian measures, you want to go out and spray rounds about like a gangbanging crack addict.

Responsible firearms owners take this stuff very seriously and we don't need some journalist misquoting what you may consider a joke, as fact. Please keep such sentiments to yourself.
 
The cancellation of the gun registry of non-restricted firearms has even made news in the States. From The Volokh Conspiracy:

Canada abolishes long gun registry

David Kopel • April 5, 2012 6:17 pm

Yesterday the Canadian Senate voted 50-27 to abolish the long gun registry. Bill C-19 received unanimous support from Conservative Senators, and some support from Liberals. The bill had previously passed the House of Commons. It became the law of the land today, with the Royal Assent of Canada’s Governor-General.

The bill does not change Canada’s registration system for handguns, which has been in effect since the 1930s. Nor does it change the registration system for certain long guns which have been classified as “prohibited” or “restricted” weapons. Likewise unchanged is Canada’s complicated and burdensome system for licensing gun owners, which was created by a Liberal government in the 1990s.

The registration changes, however, are monumental. Registration records for seven million ordinary long guns are to be destroyed. The government of Quebec has announced that it while file suit to attempt to obtain custody of the 1.5 million registration records pertaining to citizens of Quebec.

Ever since the regime of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau in the 1970s, gun control in Canada has been primarily a culture war campaign against the “masculine” values of rural Canada, and as a means of demonstrating the dominance of Canada’s urban New Class.

To this day, the foremost public justification for all forms of gun control is Gamil Rodrigue Gharbi (who changed his name Marc Lépine). Gharbi/Lépine was the son of an alcoholic, wife-beating, child abuser who had immigrated to Canada from Algeria. In 1989, he murdered 14 women (13 by gunshot, one by stabbing), and wounded 8 women and 4 men in the engineering building of a school affiliated with the University of Montreal. An incompetent response by police dispatchers to the 911 calls gave Gharbi/Lépine the opportunity to murder at leisure.

In The Montreal Massacre (gynergy books, 1991), Quebec feminists describe their outrage, and demanded the rehabilitation of masculinity, whose (allegedly) misogynist pro-death culture is based on aggressive sports, violent entertainment, and the penetration of women during sexual intercourse.

Canada’s leading public proponent of gun control, Prof. Wendy Cukier, had previously proclaimed that in Canada, gun control is a one-way street; once restrictions are imposed, they are never lifted. This was never entirely accurate; popular demand forced the removal of some long gun restrictions that had been imposed during the World Wars. But the removal of a major peacetime anti-gun law truly does signal a new era in Canadian right to arms politics.

Efforts to repeal the long gun registry lasted 17 years, and they finally succeeded in part because the majority of Canadians have concluded that the registry was a colossal waste of money,  of no value in crime control, and a pointless invasion of privacy.

Globally speaking, the repeal of the registry is the most important gun policy event of the last year. As the United Nations works towards a final draft of an Arms Trade Treaty this year, the Canadian public’s rejection of registry adds to the challenges of the global gun control organizations which want the Treaty to include gun registration requirements.

An article in Forbes profiles Saskatchewan MP Garry Breitkreuz, whose tireless work was essential to the repeal.  Breitkreuz, incidentally, had started out as a supporter of registration, and changed his mind after studying the evidence about whether it would help reduce crime. Kudos also to the Canadian Sport Shooting Association, to Canada’s National Firearms Association, and especially to the late David Tomlinson, who passed away in 2007, and who for over three decades was the Founding Father and leader of Canada’s right to arms movement.

Canadian gun owners know that much more needs to be done to undo the damage caused the kulturkampf which Trudeau began, and which has burdened Canadians with laws that do nothing to enhance public safety, but whose purpose and effect is to harass and persecute law-abiding gun owners. Bill C-19 is a good first step, and a monumental one.
 
fraserdw said:
So I can un-bury tomorrow?  Hey should we all go and shoot in the air to celebrate?

Aside from the other responses to this post, there is no reason to go overboard. This is only a minor step. You are still a criminal unless you purchase a small piece of plastic, you still have fewer rights than a sex murderer, and, no matter how much you paid for them, your firearms are still more the government's property than your own.

To quote Sir Winston Churchill, following the British victory at El Alamein, "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

The struggle from El Alamein to VJ Day was a long and difficult one.
 
recceguy said:
Sure. Now that we've convinced people we're responsible enough to be trusted with our firearms, without the libs draconian measures, you want to go out and spray rounds about like a gangbanging crack addict.

Responsible firearms owners take this stuff very seriously and we don't need some journalist misquoting what you may consider a joke, as fact. Please keep such sentiments to yourself.

Thank you for help making me more politically correct!
 
Meanwhile the new leader of the NDP says "They will bring in a new LGR once they form a government and NDPers must comply! Hell even the Liberals are glad to get this albatross off their necks and had no desire to discuss the issue. In a year or so from now the issue will be completely dead.
 
Colin P said:
Meanwhile the new leader of the NDP says "They will bring in a new LGR once they form a government and NDPers must comply! Hell even the Liberals are glad to get this albatross off their necks and had no desire to discuss the issue. In a year or so from now the issue will be completely dead.

A number of Liberal and Independant Senators even voted for it.
 
A remarkable "story" of how a small 22 hand gun helped one guy walk away from a bear attack...

Firepower: A 22 short should do it . . . . . Think not? Read on . . . . . . . . .

On Bud's Gun Shop Forums the question came up: What is the smallest caliber
you trust to protect yourself? The best answer: My personal favorite defense
gun has always been a Beretta Jetfire in 22short . Over all the years I've been
hiking I never leave without it in my pocket. Of course, we all know too the
first rule when hiking in the wilderness is to use the "Buddy System." For those
of you who may be unfamiliar with this it means you NEVER hike alone. You
bring a friend or companion, even an in-law. That way, if something happens,
there is someone to go get help .

I remember one time hiking with my brother-in-law in northern Alberta . Out
of nowhere came this huge brown bear and man, was she mad. We must have
been near one of her cubs. Anyway, if I had not had my little Jetfire I'd
sure not be here today. Just one shot to my brother-in-law's knee cap and I
was able to escape by just walking at a brisk pace.
 
Rifleman62 said:
A remarkable "story" of how a small 22 hand gun helped one guy walk away from a bear attack...

Firepower: A 22 short should do it . . . . . Think not? Read on . . . . . . . . .

On Bud's Gun Shop Forums the question came up: What is the smallest caliber
you trust to protect yourself? The best answer: My personal favorite defense
gun has always been a Beretta Jetfire in 22short . Over all the years I've been
hiking I never leave without it in my pocket. Of course, we all know too the
first rule when hiking in the wilderness is to use the "Buddy System." For those
of you who may be unfamiliar with this it means you NEVER hike alone. You
bring a friend or companion, even an in-law. That way, if something happens,
there is someone to go get help .

I remember one time hiking with my brother-in-law in northern Alberta . Out
of nowhere came this huge brown bear and man, was she mad. We must have
been near one of her cubs. Anyway, if I had not had my little Jetfire I'd
sure not be here today. Just one shot to my brother-in-law's knee cap and I
was able to escape by just walking at a brisk pace.

:bullshit: Puh Leeze - I'm pretty sure that I'd be scared enough and pissed off enough, bum knee and all, to out run my brother-in-law. :rofl:
 
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