The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Eaglelord17]

So, the non-reversible part is from C-21. The 5 round limit was a reccomendation of the Nova Scotia Mass Casualty Commission which will come via OIC.

Can they OIC prohibit magazines?

I know they can firearms but that doesn’t necessarily mean magazines have that capability in the law. I was trying to find the exact section which would detail it but I was coming up blank.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Mind you the Liberals said we were crazy when we said "Your planning on banning all guns" Seems we were right.

 

[Haggis]

Can they OIC prohibit magazines?

I know they can firearms but that doesn’t necessarily mean magazines have that capability in the law. I was trying to find the exact section which would detail it but I was coming up blank.

Yes, they can. An OIC can prohibit almost anything.

As of today, centrefire semi-automatic handguns are limited to 10 rounds. Centrefire semi-automatic rifles are limited to 5 rounds.

The Nova Scotia Mass Casualty Commission report recommended a blanket 5 round limit for all handgun, rifle, shotgun magazines regardless of the type of action (semi-auto, pump or lever). That's what Poly wants. That's what Poly will get.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Yes, they can. An OIC can prohibit almost anything.

As of today, centrefire semi-automatic handguns are limited to 10 rounds. Centrefire semi-automatic rifles are limited to 5 rounds.

The Nova Scotia Mass Casualty Commission report recommended a blanket 5 round limit for all handgun, rifle, shotgun magazines regardless of the type of action (semi-auto, pump or lever). That's what Poly wants. That's what Poly will get.

That one is going to have a much harder time going through in any capacity. Hard to argue your not going after hunters (as for whatever reason that is the group they feel they need to protect) when literally that will be the main group effected as it would mainly be manual actions getting pinned.

Lee Enfields, grandads 30-30, paps 12 gauge pump, etc.

Most their changes as dumb as I think they are generally don’t hit the majority of firearms owners. Trying a magazine restriction like that would basically hit every firearms owners in the country.

 

[Haggis]

Most their changes as dumb as I think they are generally don’t hit the majority of firearms owners. Trying a magazine restriction like that would basically hit every firearms owners in the country.

So what? Most firearms owners these days aren't inclined to vote Liberal anyways, and not just because of the bans. Net loss = zero.

 

[IKnowNothing]

The Nova Scotia Mass Casualty Commission report recommended a blanket 5 round limit for all handgun, rifle, shotgun magazines regardless of the type of action (semi-auto, pump or lever). That's what Poly wants. That's what Poly will get.

It will be interesting (to say the least) to see the exact mechanics of how such a policy would roll out.

1. Any action targeting pumps/levers/ bolts is going to face an immense amount of pushback. Including the SKS and a few niche Weatherby's in Bill-21 caused an absolute shitstorm and opposition from the Bloc + elements of the NDP (link). Given the relative scope of what we're talking about I think there would be very real risk of bringing down the government- not to mention the civil unrest.
2. The raw cost implications of a buyback would be staggering given the number of guns out there
3. There is a wide spectrum in how they enact such a ban:
   1. Grandfathered life-time full use amnesty but a prohibition on transfers until rendered compliant via non-reversible alteration
   2. Full-use amnesty with a deadline on which date they switch to prohibited unless/until rendered compliant
   3. Immediate switch to prohibited with an amnesty deadline allowing for storage and transport prior to being rendered compliant/surrendered

I think 3.3 brings down the government. Given the widespread belief that they're going to get smashed in October they might be able to thread the needle with a 3.1- 3.2 range "solution" that the gun owning populace grits their teeth and stomachs in the short term under the belief that the CPC will immediately reverse it.

I also think that given what happened with C-21 that if the intent is to try and create a wedge issue they are drastically miscalculating. Which circles back to the comment upthread- aside from short-term appeasement of Poly the real goal is gutting the commercial infrastructure.

 

[captloadie]

That one is going to have a much harder time going through in any capacity. Hard to argue your not going after hunters (as for whatever reason that is the group they feel they need to protect) when literally that will be the main group effected as it would mainly be manual actions getting pinned.

Lee Enfields, grandads 30-30, paps 12 gauge pump, etc.

Most their changes as dumb as I think they are generally don’t hit the majority of firearms owners. Trying a magazine restriction like that would basically hit every firearms owners in the country.

Ref the highlighted part. I would argue that true hunters would say that if you need more than five rounds, you are a shooter, and not a hunter.

I'm not advocating for the reductions, the restrictions, the bans etc., but I think we also need to be honest about who is most opposed to these restrictions. Its sports shooters, not farmers or not hunters. Which is okay that is the real affected group. They have their rights as well.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Ref the highlighted part. I would argue that true hunters would say that if you need more than five rounds, you are a shooter, and not a hunter.

I'm not advocating for the reductions, the restrictions, the bans etc., but I think we also need to be honest about who is most opposed to these restrictions. Its sports shooters, not farmers or not hunters. Which is okay that is the real affected group. They have their rights as well.

Functionally, in abstract, you might be right. But the reality doesn't line up. You're severely underestimating the number of existing plugged shotguns, lever guns, enfields etc. that can exceed 5 but probably never see more than two or three shells loaded at a time that suddenly become illegal.

I have a pretty damn fuddy gun cabinet and such a change would catch two out of three, plus another of my next two planned purchases.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ref the highlighted part. I would argue that true hunters would say that if you need more than five rounds, you are a shooter, and not a hunter.

I'm not advocating for the reductions, the restrictions, the bans etc., but I think we also need to be honest about who is most opposed to these restrictions. Its sports shooters, not farmers or not hunters. Which is okay that is the real affected group. They have their rights as well.

I don't think you understand how many of those categories of people actually the same people.

I am an avid hunter, I also like to target shoot. And I find my target shooting complements my hunting. And I am far from alone.

I also have an experience where I was surrounded by coyotes and I was very happy to have the Lee Enfield's 10 round magazine.

Are you a firearms owner ?

 

[Eaglelord17]

Ref the highlighted part. I would argue that true hunters would say that if you need more than five rounds, you are a shooter, and not a hunter.

I'm not advocating for the reductions, the restrictions, the bans etc., but I think we also need to be honest about who is most opposed to these restrictions. Its sports shooters, not farmers or not hunters. Which is okay that is the real affected group. They have their rights as well.

If you want to get technical true hunters only need a single shot/ and or/ double barrel muzzle loader as that was what was available for centuries.

Who needs the capacity to chamber a cartridge, thats too much firepower for your citizen and why would they need to shoot with any level of speed? /sarcasm

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Ref the highlighted part. I would argue that true hunters would say that if you need more than five rounds, you are a shooter, and not a hunter.

I'm not advocating for the reductions, the restrictions, the bans etc., but I think we also need to be honest about who is most opposed to these restrictions. Its sports shooters, not farmers or not hunters. Which is okay that is the real affected group. They have their rights as well.

Depends what you're hunting....

I don't think you understand how many of those categories of people actually the same people.

I am an avid hunter, I also like to target shoot. And I find my target shooting complements my hunting. And I am far from alone.

I also have an experience where I was surrounded by coyotes and I was very happy to have the Lee Enfield's 10 round magazine.

Are you a firearms owner ?

Ditto....

I was actually looking at picking up one of the modern target rifles in semi-auto right before this so I could do some target shooting.... why?

Because I miss it and don't get to enjoy the thrill of tactical shooting any longer now that I'm out.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Whether a one shot hunter or a thousand round target shooter is not the point.

The over reach of a corrupt government to arbitrarily confiscate your legally purchased, legally held, legally used private property, on a whim, is the point.

 

[Ostrozac]

Ref the highlighted part. I would argue that true hunters would say that if you need more than five rounds, you are a shooter, and not a hunter.

The Winchester 30-30 lever action is one of the most popular deer hunting rifles in history — and it is usually found with a 7 round tubular magazine. Cracking down on 30-30’s, pump shotguns and sporterized Lee-Enfields (the “Fudd guns”) just might be a ban too far, politically.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Not really all

Ref the highlighted part. I would argue that true hunters would say that if you need more than five rounds, you are a shooter, and not a hunter.

but I think we also need to be honest about who is most opposed to these restrictions. Its sports shooters, not farmers or not hunters.

It's short sighted for hunters and farmers to believe the government won't come after "hunting" firearms. Especially once someone makes the argument about how dangerous these long-ranged weapons designed to kill grizzly bears and 1000 pound moose can be.

Sawed off double barrel shotgun with OO-buck? That's 16-24 projectiles every couple seconds, with a magazine limited to the size of someone's pocket.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I want to know what a hunting rifle is ?

I need a definition here.

 

[OldSolduer]

Because I miss it and don't get to enjoy the thrill of tactical shooting any longer now that I'm out.

I was looking at a Ruger 10/22 HB with a scope and bipod. Mini sniper rifle. I hear its been banned too.

 

[OldSolduer]

I want to know what a hunting rifle is ?

I need a definition here.

as long as it doesn't look scary to Wendy Cookier and JT. Which is EVERY weapon.

 

[captloadie]

Hey, I'm not saying they should be banning anything, or reducing magazine capacities. Nor am I saying that there is no cross over between the many reasons individuals are gun owners/lovers. I love shooting when I get the opportunity. I prefer that over hunting in all honesty. I don't currently own firearms for personal reasons related to a home business, but when the time is right, and if I can still procure them, I'd love to have a small selection to tinker with.

What I'm saying is that we need to stop using hunters and farmers and protection from wildlife as excuses to own firearms. Because that's how we get silly rules like are being invoked now. We need more vocal, logical arguments coming from gun collectors, sport shooters, and industry. Sell the positive aspects of gun ownership that don't revolve around self protection, because all the anti-gun lobbyists hear is "they" want their guns so they can shoot people.

 

[Haggis]

I was looking at a Ruger 10/22 HB with a scope and bipod. Mini sniper rifle. I hear its been banned too.

Not yet. Rumour is the 10/22 will be on the next list.

Given how things are going for Team Red, they may have come to the end of the line, though.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Hey, I'm not saying they should be banning anything, or reducing magazine capacities. Nor am I saying that there is no cross over between the many reasons individuals are gun owners/lovers. I love shooting when I get the opportunity. I prefer that over hunting in all honesty. I don't currently own firearms for personal reasons related to a home business, but when the time is right, and if I can still procure them, I'd love to have a small selection to tinker with.

What I'm saying is that we need to stop using hunters and farmers and protection from wildlife as excuses to own firearms. Because that's how we get silly rules like are being invoked now. We need more vocal, logical arguments coming from gun collectors, sport shooters, and industry. Sell the positive aspects of gun ownership that don't revolve around self protection, because all the anti-gun lobbyists hear is "they" want their guns so they can shoot people.

Honestly I think at this point it needs to be emphasized that self defence is a legitimate reason to own a firearm. Crime is up and the police aren’t able to do everything.

Every person has the inherent right to self defence. Why is it we believe that we cannot plan and prepare for it? We believe fire alarms are necessary despite likely never needing it. We require the use of seatbelts even though you may never be in a accident.

This argument that you have the right to something but being unable to prepare and actually do something about it until the moment it happens is nonsense.

At the end of the day, self defence is the only reason that cannot be countered with a alternative.

Hunting? Bows and arrows exist. Target shooting? Thats a hobby not a necessity. Collecting? Why does the firearm need to be live?

I am not against any of those things, I partake in all those aspects. Just from a anti-firearms perspective those can all be countered with a alternative. Self defence cannot be.

Firearms owners in Canada have spent decades trying to appease these types. And the result is the slow erosion of our rights and freedoms over time. Maybe it’s time we give up on appeasing and tell them to go pound sand as no matter how much we give they just keep pushing.