The Closing of CFB Chilliwack & No Regular Force Army Battalions in BC?!

[medaid]

Umm... ya... I think our presence is okay... I mean we hold an exercise every year up in Kamloops/Kelowna... I mean 39 CBG's Cougar Salvo is well a good size right?

Why?  So that equipment, and personnel, can be victims of the disaster, instead of responding to it?  So they can be isolated in Chilliwack, with no means of resupply?  With no means to get anybody to anywhere to do any good?

+1  Most of the units in the lower mainland would be in VERY big trouble. As those of us who actually reside in BC know that 12 Svc Bn would literally have to self-recover, with what ever they can muster, with what ever man power they can sort out. They are our main base for logistical support, yet they are located on an island which will instantly liquify if an earthquake hits. So... any other bright ideas?

[quote autho=ParaMedTech link=topic=57936/post-532923#msg532923 date=1172394354]
Those who think that having 800-odd soldiers in the middle of the disaster zone is going to make any difference beyond helping those people in the immediate vicinity of the base are deluding themselves.
[/quote]

+1 Again... funny how we think alike. There is no point in having a Bn of soldier here (We're already got one and a few worth spread out the lower mainland) who are not trained for support in disaster areas. The usage of Light Urban Search and Rescue [LUSAR] is extremely important in the aftermath of an earthquake disaster, and 39 CBG has realized that and have been training their pers in the techniques of LUSAR. This is not saying that those extra 800 something odd soldier can not fulfill vital roles in the rescue/cleanup/aid process but like ParaMedTech said, it'll be pretty useless if they cant get across the rivers needed to bring the help here to the people.

 

[career_radio-checker]

Even when 1 CER was located in Chilliwack, along with CFSME, there wasn't enough MGB, Bailey, Acrow, or MR to get across the Vedder, the Chilliwack River, the Fraser River.... etc.  In short, they aren't able to get themselves the 100 km from CWac to Vancouver.

Those who think that having 800-odd soldiers in the middle of the disaster zone is going to make any difference beyond helping those people in the immediate vicinity of the base are deluding themselves.

I never said it should be in Chilliwack, just closer to Vancouver than Edmonton. Abotsford is a good choice.

 

[rosco]

True a huge coastline to defend but...
the Coastal Ranges make almost all avenues inland imposible.
Still I would love to live "wet" again!

 

[tabernac]

?  This is silly.  Are you suggesting that BC's requirement for an infantry battalion is to defend against an amphibious invasion?  And you believe that the nonexistent marine commando unit will be interchangeable with a battalion?

RAdm Girourd seems to think that this MCR would guard against threats against ferries, cruise ships, etc. that frequent the BC coastline. It would be redundant (this WOULD be going out of my lane) to station a Reg F battalion in BC, if they (this theroretical battalion and the non-existant MCR) were to overlap duties. And no, they are not interchangeable, as they have different roles.
Sea borne threat=marine unit
land borne threat=Reg F unit

 

[Michael OLeary]

Sea borne threat=marine unit
land borne threat=Reg F unit

No-one in this thread has yet actually defined theses "threats" to support their claims that a Reg F unit (Bn or 'MCR') should be stationed in the province.

Why?  So that equipment, and personnel, can be victims of the disaster, instead of responding to it?  So they can be isolated in Chilliwack, with no means of resupply?  With no means to get anybody to anywhere to do any good?

Even when 1 CER was located in Chilliwack, along with CFSME, there wasn't enough MGB, Bailey, Acrow, or MR to get across the Vedder, the Chilliwack River, the Fraser River.... etc.  In short, they aren't able to get themselves the 100 km from CWac to Vancouver.

Those who think that having 800-odd soldiers in the middle of the disaster zone is going to make any difference beyond helping those people in the immediate vicinity of the base are deluding themselves.

Let's also not forget this when debating the value of a unit for disaster response: positioning such a unit in the 'zone' would include positioning all of their families there too, with the attendant stresses and distractions that would cause in an emergency.

 

[3rd Herd]

Okay,
first off the 3rd Bn. moved out of Work Point for several reasons most of which have been discused at length here on the site. In capsolation it was lack of training area, costs of on and off island, and the need for the Pacific fleet to expand. They ran out of room at Nellis. In writing a paper, partly for the civil authorities in Victoria it was discovered that for the most part Esquimalt would be isolated. This isolation due to the forseen collapse of all three bridges which feed into that municipality. The Parliament buildings as with other major areas of Victoria are built on reclaimed land. In the event of a major seismic event it is going to be allot of "the walls came tumbling down". Victoria and surrounding area have long been formatting a multi stakeholder disaster plan( at the provincial level there has been quite an amount of expertise provided by retired military how have had practical experience while on duty in various countries). All schools have 72 hour kits as do a majority of both public and private companies. Many households through education programs in local schools have the same. In some schools students have training in how to set up disaster reception centers etc.

As for the Maritime threat, yes the coast is for the most part pretty well looked after. Between the Coast Guard, the fly boys out of Comox, and the Reg/Res patrol vessels out of Esquimalt not too much gets by them. Examples of what does, Chinese fishing boats on their last legs afloat bringing economic refugees. A seasonal thing, currents, fog banks, wave action. The outside of Vancouver island is not the same as the nice land protected inside passage. There is the reason there is not much travel, in the age of sailling ships and the dawn of steam mariners found this area to be one of the most difficult to navigate. The wrecks from by gone years have contributed to divers paradise and new ones are often being found both under the water and ashore as wave action strips covering beach sand. Not much in the way of road development to the west coast either as those of us who have lived there can attest too.

Lastly as for a reg bn. where are you going to put them, their support units, as mentioned families. All of the old training areas have been shut down, closed, down sized and there is not the room or I suspect the funding to reestablish on the island. As for the reserves and the cadet organization who are still there. They seem to be doing quite well.

my two cents.

 

[STING]

        Perhaps station one of the future companies of CSOR at the Chilliwack base . They wouldn't require the logistics and support of a full batallion . Plus a great training area for light infantry with all the coastal mountain terrain in BC . Just a idea .....

 

[Donut]

On this subject, The Province today ran a 6-page special on the threat the massive snowpack will pose this spring.  I know the Dom Ops people already have this in their sights, and are tracking it carefully.

Estimates include the blocking of the trans-Canada, the cutting of both CN and CP rail lines, the loss of good chunks of the hydro grid, and all the usual crap and corruption that follows the loss of the modern conveniences we're all so attached to.

Here's an on-topic joke, too, that follows along with Mr. O'Leary's comment:

Where do rescue crews go first after a disaster? 

My house, I'm the one driving!

 

[McG]

 Perhaps station one of the future companies of CSOR at the Chilliwack base .

1.  Why?  What purpose will it serve?  How will it train?

2.  There is no longer enough of what was CFB Chilliwack to start throwing units into it for our amusement.

3.  A company still requires support & administration (especially when it is not part of a battalion).

 

[McG]

And no, they are not interchangeable, as they have different roles.
Sea borne threat=marine unit
land borne threat=Reg F unit

Well, I think you've demonstrated you lack of understanding on the topic here.  But anyway, what capability to secure our coast will we get with a regular force marine commando that we are not getting from the airforce, navy, and coast guard? 

 

[warspite]

Some food for thought:
What's the threat to B.C. ???
Well in all fairness, whats the threat to Edmonton  ???

Note: Not going out on some wild idea here, just pointing out a flaw in asking that question.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

I find it a little disconcerting to think that during any decent winter storm two airports are the only lifeline (to Regular Army) for an entire province (which includes one of the country's most important ports & 3rd-largest city), regardless of the reason they might be needed ...

 

[medaid]

Where do rescue crews go first after a disaster? 

My house, I'm the one driving!

NOT FAIR! Well... my house next? I'll be in the vehicle right along side of you  :

 

[geo]

So the 3rd battalion (3PPCLI) was "moved" to Edmonton.......The former Chilliwack BC base was bulldozed and is currently being transformed into a sub division.
But let me get this straight, 1 Battalion in New-Brundswick, 3 in Quebec, 2 in Ontario, 1 in Manitoba (for some reason), 2 in Edmonton, and a wopping 0 in BC.
BC is one of the largest coastlines in the world, completely isolated geographically from the rest of Canada, has the 2nd fastest growing Population base in Canada and has, by far, the mildest climate in Canada. I'm no strategist but I would think that having a battalion in BC might make some sense.

Basing a unit in a province is one thing.... keeping them in fighting trim is another.
PPCLI from work point spent more time and money moving their equipment to the maniland & the US for field training than in the actual training... not a good idea.

There was a suggestion to base a CER unit in the Vancouver area. Argument about having someone there in case of the city getting hit by "the big one".... but, no one appears to have taken into consideration the concept of having troops staged on top of ground zero.... not a good idea.

Chilliwack..... great training area..... also ground zero on some aboriginal land claims.  Now that appears to hae been settled.  A reserve CER is supposed to grow within BC.  A sqn in Vancouver, a sqn or more destined for the Chilliwack area....

 

[medaid]

A reserve CER is supposed to grow within BC.  A sqn in Vancouver, a sqn or more destined for the Chilliwack area....

6 Fd is growing quite nicely and their sister unit in Chilliwack is also expanding at a good rate.

 

[geo]

6 Fd is growing quite nicely and their sister unit in Chilliwack is also expanding at a good rate.

............54 Field Sqn,.

 

[Trimmen]

That's What I'm talking about!
What about the possible threats a posed by a natural disaster an its implications to the population.
And what about the threats that the population could pose to itself.
And a side note.....Aside from BC, where in Canada (in not anywhere) can one ski and swim on the same day. The Lower Main Land and Fraser Valley offer the best all around training geography in Canada don't they?

 

[safeboy43]

He does have a point as there are some things that you can do in Chilliwack and not at another location. When the BOTC was located at Chilliwack, the temperature was normally mild and they could do multiple training scenarios in a single day (winter training and swimming). In St. Jean, you would have some difficulty doing those two things in the same season, never mind the same day.

However, Reserve units are in abundance so some good is coming out of that. The Westies are using part of the Chilliwack base for their BMQ and 54 Field Engineers are using part of it as well. Unfortunately, as I see it, they are simply doing the best they can because most Reg Force land is no longer theirs....courtesy of the Liberal Party Of Canada.

Just my 2 cents....

 

[Michael OLeary]

That's What I'm talking about!

Please review the points made above.

What about the possible threats a posed by a natural disaster an its implications to the population.

Note where the points were made about the problems of having such a unit positioned in the hypothetical danger zone.  If they are part of the affected area, we lose the capability, and cannot take advantage of it.

And what about the threats that the population could pose to itself.

Would you care to explain this point in detail.

And a side note.....Aside from BC, where in Canada (in not anywhere) can one ski and swim on the same day. The Lower Main Land and Fraser Valley offer the best all around training geography in Canada don't they?

Sporting preferences do not make a good foundation for deciding where to put a unit of the CF.

Training geography for what roles?

 

[Michael OLeary]

He does have a point as there are some things that you can do in Chilliwack and not at another location. When the BOTC was located at Chilliwack, the temperature was normally mild and they could do multiple training scenarios in a single day (winter training and swimming). In St. Jean, you would have some difficulty doing those two things in the same season, never mind the same day.

Having taken BOTC in Chilliwack in the fall, followed by Infantry officer Training in Gagetown starting in January, the only factor that dictated how many tasks were performed in either location was what time the sun rose and set.  So, unless you are suggesting that Chilliwack has more hours of daylight, you've just offered this thread a red hering.  Thank you.