The air cadet thread

[yoman]

What are you issued?

What do they tell you to wear?

Seems simple to me.

And when you go down with screwed feet because you didn't wear woolies you'll be setting an excellent example for your charges. Ever think the day may come when you must remove a boot in their presence? Hardly fitting to expect them to wear the kit but you won't. I wore what I was issued both in the CF and Cadets and I never once had an issue. If you are one of those special cases then get a chit. Otherwise you wear what is given to you.

We are issued no combat nothing for FTX's. If we buy combat clothing its on our own dime. The only time cadets may be issued combat clothing would be at camp.

 

[Scott]

OK, I am not going to get into yet another debate about Cadets needing field clothing. But if you ain't issued it then you don't need it.

However, after many bunfights here I have conceded that it's OK for a kid, who is interested, to go buy something to wear while they are on their FTX's. That is the reason we now have CADETPAT, correct? Are we clear so far? ;D

What I have a huge issue with is when someone arbitrarily decides to go against the system. Someone in leadership role. You all want to be taken so seriously and then you have people who obey the rules they like and ignore the ones they don't - the real world doesn't work that way.

 

[yoman]

OK, I am not going to get into yet another debate about Cadets needing field clothing. But if you ain't issued it then you don't need it.

However, after many bunfights here I have conceded that it's OK for a kid, who is interested, to go buy something to wear while they are on their FTX's. That is the reason we now have CADETPAT, correct? Are we clear so far? ;D

What I have a huge issue with is when someone arbitrarily decides to go against the system. Someone in leadership role. You all want to be taken so seriously and then you have people who obey the rules they like and ignore the ones they don't - the real world doesn't work that way.

If they want to buy something to wear on FTX then that's their decision, what ever it may be. This topic is not about combat clothing, we already had plenty of those and you've seen the results of them.

I'm sorry if I missed something but what where did that last statement come from?

 

[Scott]

It comes, quite simply, from those who are in leadership roles and do not follow the rules. How can they expect their charges to follow the rules and how can they enforce them when they themselves break them? Further, the statement comes from some of the goings on I have seen in the Cadet Forums overall in the last few days. CIC disobeying rules in public. All a Cadet member of this site has to do is click on someone's profile to see that they are CIC. They then click on their most recent posts and see that the guy acts like a clown and thumbs his nose at the rules in every case that he can. Do you think this really sets a good example?

Just my rant of the frustrating day.

The conversation came to this here:

What you can do is slip you insoles inside the boot and cut the top portion off your wool socks, giving the illusion of wearing them to anyone who might check.

To which I responded:

What are you issued?

What do they tell you to wear?

Seems simple to me.

And when you go down with screwed feet because you didn't wear woolies you'll be setting an excellent example for your charges. Ever think the day may come when you must remove a boot in their presence? Hardly fitting to expect them to wear the kit but you won't. I wore what I was issued both in the CF and Cadets and I never once had an issue. If you are one of those special cases then get a chit. Otherwise you wear what is given to you.

Better now?

Edited for spelling mistake.

 

[GINge!]

  Hmmmm...*scratches chin*....GINge, methinks we might have run into each other...I was 666 Civitan (North York) from 81 to 85... Sandra S. and I were on Gliders together in 84...

Cheers,
Duey

I'm sure we know some of the same people. I got a PM from Capt Sloan a few weeks back and some of the names he mentioned brought on a severe bout of nostalgia. I never went the glider/power route - at 16, I discovered I needed glasses, so I went to Trenton for JLC (I think that's what it was called?) for a few weeks. But, even at 16, I knew the Air Force was run by pilots, so my jump over to A Coy, Lorne Scots was only a matter of time until I turned 17.  ;D

 

[big_castor]

It comes, quite simply, fro those who are in leadership roles and do not follow the rules. How can they expect their charges to follow the rules and how can they enforce them when they themselves break them? Further, the statement comes from some of the goings on I have seen in the Cadet Forums overall in the last few days. CIC disobeying rules in public.

I wear black CIVILIAN socks with my CF Oxfords. Are you going to report me to the sock police ?

 

[Scott]

Well you certainly made a great effort to get my point. Wind your neck in, I wasn't attacking you or anyone who decides to wear pink, purple or green socks. I was making a statement, you choose to do otherwise then it's obvious that we disagree, you don't have to act like an ass because you disagree with me.

Here, read it again:

It comes, quite simply, from those who are in leadership roles and do not follow the rules. How can they expect their charges to follow the rules and how can they enforce them when they themselves break them? Further, the statement comes from some of the goings on I have seen in the Cadet Forums overall in the last few days. CIC disobeying rules in public. All a Cadet member of this site has to do is click on someone's profile to see that they are CIC. They then click on their most recent posts and see that the guy acts like a clown and thumbs his nose at the rules in every case that he can. Do you think this really sets a good example?

Get it this time? It wasn't about the fact that someone is breaking rules, it's about them being in a leadership role and expecting different behavior from their charges. You would have picked up on that had you taken the time to read the post a little more carefully instead of slamming the reply button to say something snotty.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Hopefully you are relaxed with your dress and deportment with your cadets as well. Can't have a double standard now can we?

Damn Scott beat me again lol

 

[big_castor]

Get it this time? It wasn't about the fact that someone is breaking rules, it's about them being in a leadership role and expecting different behavior from their charges. You would have picked up on that had you taken the time to read the post a little more carefully instead of slamming the reply button to say something snotty.

I read your post.  I responded in that way because I think making broad assessments of someone’s leadership trough is choice of footwear is ridiculous.

 

[Scott]

I read your post.  I responded in that way because I think making broad assessments of someone’s leadership trough is choice of footwear is ridiculous.

Hmm, then why didn't you say that? Nevermind :

Leading by example means nothing to you? I didn't once say that if you wear pink socks that you are not an effective leader. When you set double standards and incorporate a "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude then I believe you to be an ineffective leader or at the very least on your way down that path.

Hopefully you are relaxed with your dress and deportment with your cadets as well. Can't have a double standard now can we?

Squadron CO, you stumbled into a rant by me about the behavior of one CIC on this site. That person has been dealt with and that part of things needs no discussion. The Cadets who post in here really try to make an effort to post intelligently and follow the rules, they also do alot of self policing and it works quite well. What really angers me is when someone who is supposed to supervise them comes in here and breaks the very rules that they try so hard to follow and then thumbs his nose about it! What kind of example is that setting? So, from disobeying the guidelines to talk of socks - here we lie.

 

[PJOsborne]

It comes, quite simply, from those who are in leadership roles and do not follow the rules. How can they expect their charges to follow the rules and how can they enforce them when they themselves break them? Further, the statement comes from some of the goings on I have seen in the Cadet Forums overall in the last few days. CIC disobeying rules in public. All a Cadet member of this site has to do is click on someone's profile to see that they are CIC. They then click on their most recent posts and see that the guy acts like a clown and thumbs his nose at the rules in every case that he can. Do you think this really sets a good example?

Just my rant of the frustrating day.

The conversation came to this here:

To which I responded:
Better now?

Edited for spelling mistake.

I do understand where you're coming from, Scott. In my time in cadets, i always wore what i was originally issued - cotton socks underneath a pair of grey wool socks, no insoles, no resoling of the old parade boot. However, it was deemed an accepted practise at my old squadron for cadets with fit issues / wool allergies etc to use a "cheater" sock to maintain the desired appearance of uniformity. In my experience, no real harm was done, since those cadets using the cheater socks had a decent reason for doing so, and all the staff approved of the practise. I'm sure different standards exist, but in my entire time in the cadet program, the cheater sock, although rare, was the approved way to go.

 

[Scott]

Please, do not get me wrong. I was not trying to be a sock God.

The points I made were carried over from another thread and both deal with leadership issues within the CIC. At a very base level I pointed out that if you, the CIC, want to be taken seriously then you had better tow the line. I was also pointing out that, at a base level, if you are not following the same rules as your charges then you have failed one part of leadership - Leading by Example.

Not to paint all the CIC with the same brush, I have stated that I do not and stand by that. But there are some, a few who frequent this site, who will quote the rules but refuse to live by them. I am very passionate about showing these sorts the err of their ways before they get eaten in the real world.

I was misread in this thread, the debate came from another, I'd quote it all but it seems to be a dead issue now (hopefully) so I see no further use discussing it here. We could open a thread on leadership issues within the CIC but that would go the same place it always does:
-You good, dedicated members would get real feedback from members of your units as well as Reg and Res Pers.
-The thuds in your ranks would flame or avoid the thread.
-If they got ballsy and posted they'd get torn apart and leave the thread.

So sorry, I am not going to subject myself to that.

 

[sgt_mandal]

If a cadet is allergic to wool, what difference does it make if he's wearing a whole sock or half a sock? He would still be allergic. If anything, this "cheater sock" would pose more of a risk, as it is closer to the bare skin of ones ankle (asuming that he is wearing a non regulation sock with this "cheater sock").

 

[PJOsborne]

the idea is to wear a non-regulation sock tall enough to protect the skin from the cheater sock as well.

 

[sgt_mandal]

And how would that be any different from wearing the whole sock?

 

[Scott]

If a cadet is allergic to wool

The he/she gets a chit explaining that so they don't get jacked for not wearing wool. When I was in the Mo we had a guy who had some sort of skin condition that was really hard on him if he had hair, so he shaved it right to the wood. Problem was that regs stated you have some hair on your melon (I can't recall how much right now but something makes me think #1 on the sides, #2 on top) He got a chit and was happy. The system does work if you use it.

 

[condor888000]

And how would that be any different from wearing the whole sock?

Boot would fit looser. Only thing I can think of.

 

[PJOsborne]

it would also allow for more space inside of the boot to wear insoles.

 

[yoman]

As promised earlier (and proof for some), I have the pictures from the Police tour I was talking about.

http://p5.piczo.com/img/i11425196_83391_5.jpg

This is a picture of me getting tazered.

http://p5.piczo.com/img/i11395938_92073_5.jpg

Canine picture.

 

[sgt_mandal]

it would also allow for more space inside of the boot to wear insoles.

what do insoles and space have to do with an allergic reaction to wool?