TCAT-PCAT info and questions ( merged )

[aesop081]

I've seen that rule shuffled around more than once.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Haggis]

Yes and No.  LFCA has an on again, off again, policy that Class A should have completed a valid Fitness test.  At the same time, any Class A member who desires to go on any course, is required to have a up to date Fitness Test completed. 

So, in the end, if you want to progress and be employed in the Reserves, you should have completed a valid Fitness Test.

Army policy (not LFCA) is that any Class A soldier who is proceeding on a Class B over 180 days, is to be promoted or is to assume a CO/RSM position must have a valid fitness test.  The Army standard is the LFCPFS.  If said soldier is proceeding on a Class B over 180 days outside the Army, the soldier must have, at least, a valid EXPRES test.

There is no other requirement for a Class A soldier to maintain a valid fitness test result EXCEPT that there are numerous short notice and higher level taskings/opportunities which have a valid fitness test as a prerequisite.  So, as George Wallace wisely said, it's in your best interest to ensure that your fitness test result is ALWAYS up-to-date, regardless of the regulatory requirement to do so while on Class A service.

 

[ModlrMike]

Army policy (not LFCA) is that any Class A soldier who is proceeding on a Class B over 180 days, is to be promoted or is to assume a CO/RSM position must have a valid fitness test.  The Army standard is the LFCPFS.  If said soldier is proceeding on a Class B over 180 days outside the Army, the soldier must have, at least, a valid EXPRES test.

There is no other requirement for a Class A soldier to maintain a valid fitness test result EXCEPT that there are numerous short notice and higher level taskings/opportunities which have a valid fitness test as a prerequisite.  So, as George Wallace wisely said, it's in your best interest to ensure that your fitness test result is ALWAYS up-to-date, regardless of the regulatory requirement to do so while on Class A service.

By contrast as a Class A sailor, I have to maintain a valid EXPRES result at all times.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Go on a SCAN seminar in the fall -

We offer Second Career Assistance to personnel on Class B?

This is going to sound harsh, but in my not at all humble opinion Class B is not a career, it is a job.  A Class A soldier (or real reservist as I like to call them) has a career - and occasionally two.  A Class B soldier on the other hand goes from short term contract to short term contract in order to earn money.  I call that a job.

Of course I might be wrong  :dunno:

 

[dapaterson]

Should the CF have class B as a career option?  No.

Have we (the royal, CF we) permitted and encouraged that over the past generation?  Yes.

We need to be careful in separating any distaste for the way the system evolved from people who were in that system.  In a very candid moment (over beers in Kingston) a former DGLCD stated point-blank that the Army would have collapsed without the Reservists who stepped up during the conflict in Afghanistan - not only those who deployed, but also those who backfilled and permitted others to deploy.


So, if the CF permitted the evolution of the "class B career" the CF now must find a way to square the circle, and find ways to assist in the transition back to class A service or, in some cases, to civilian life.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

So, if the CF permitted the evolution of the "class B career" the CF now must find a way to square the circle, and find ways to assist in the transition back to class A service or, in some cases, to civilian life.

I will grant you that, and as you know, I know all too well just how badly the Army abused both Cl B and civpers hiring in the last 6-8 years.  The reason that I think it important to ask the question (and I guess to make or even belabour the point) is that we need to ensure that we collectively challenge the structures that were built up to reflect our own lack of discipline.  I have no beefs with non Reserve related Cl B or even double-dippers as individuals.  I do however lament the fact that we encouraged people to make choices that are actually NOT in the best interests of the institution over the long term, and arguably over the short term.  It is the system that I am challenging, and the intellectual and policy underpinnings of same.

Fortunately, we have been slapped upside the head, and over the next few years we need to fix the problems.  We need to live within our means.  We need to avoid encouraging people to assume that the short term solutions have long term prospects.  We need to invest heavily (in politiical and moral if not physical or fiscal capital) in the Cl A Reserves.  In short, we have to live within our means, even if that entails cutting the legs out from under some good people.

Hard times means hard decisions.  We are returning to a time when the cost that must most be considered is the opportunity cost - the thing we can't do because we are chosing to do something else *cough*F35*cough*. 

It will not be easy, and nor will it be painless.  It is, however, essential.

 

[dapaterson]

Getting back on track is essential.  Doing it in a way that ensures our people know that we appreciate what they did when we needed them is also essential - pissing off large numbers of people is not a Human Resources best practice...

 

[Blackadder1916]

We offer Second Career Assistance to personnel on Class B?

Yes.

DAOD 5031-4, Second Career Assistance Network Programme

Overview

Transition to Civilian Life

In the transition of CF members from military to civilian life, the CF recognizes the importance of offering assistance to Regular Force members, full-time Reservists and, in certain cases, their spouses or common-law partners. The transition may involve counselling, education and accreditation for a career change. It is also in the interest of the CF to train, educate and upgrade CF members for second careers.

Recognizing the commitment of CF members and the extraordinary demands and challenges of the military lifestyle, the CF makes services available in the Second Career Assistance Network Program (SCAN) to assist in the transition to civilian life. SCAN is an activity under DAOD 5031-0, Learning and Professional Development.

Access to SCAN Services
CF members should access SCAN early and periodically during their careers. They are strongly encouraged not to wait until their last year of service to take advantage of SCAN services.

 

[bridges]

Should the CF have class B as a career option?  No.

Have we (the royal, CF we) permitted and encouraged that over the past generation?  Yes.

We need to be careful in separating any distaste for the way the system evolved from people who were in that system.  In a very candid moment (over beers in Kingston) a former DGLCD stated point-blank that the Army would have collapsed without the Reservists who stepped up during the conflict in Afghanistan - not only those who deployed, but also those who backfilled and permitted others to deploy.

So, if the CF permitted the evolution of the "class B career" the CF now must find a way to square the circle, and find ways to assist in the transition back to class A service or, in some cases, to civilian life.

To dapaterson, thank you for that post.

My CAREER was spent entirely on Class A, B and C service - yes it was a career, with more job security than most civilian careers, and plenty of hard work & sacrifice as with anyone in uniform.  I find the comments that reservists on Class B had "a job"/not a career, expressing shock at "20 years Class B", questioning whether they need SCAN seminars, etc. etc., distasteful to say the least - not to mention woefully uninformed.  And not helpful to the OP's question.

As to that - it appears, Future Pensioner, that you are caught in some very unfortunate timing in this case.  Are you sure that the original position has been cancelled eff 31 Aug - or was it just the Class B employment that was terminated?  Have you already requested your ROE?  Placed a call to the SISIP LTD folks?  Registered for a SCAN seminar?

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

Hey everyone,

Just thought I'd ask here for advice as I've always gotten the straight-up from the people here. This is my situation...

Started BMQ in November 2010 as a NESOP, graduated without injury, etc, won two awards, was fine. I then got sent to Esquimalt for my 3's, where I waited for a few months on PAT doing nothing really, went on some sails with the Algonquin, at this time I submitted an OT request due to me wanting to try to get into MP (I have my diploma for Police Foundations) and because I got terribly sea-sick (Like, 4-8 times a day at sea, with gravol bad).

It took a bit for the OT process to be completed, medical, interviews, etc and MP was full so I picked Combat Engineer or Armored Crewman as my two choices. I got word over my christmas leave from my chief that my OT was successful and i was accepted for Combat Engineer. Was really a great day, and I was excited.

I got to CFB Gagetown being told that I was on the first course starting, which was great, I did my mod 1, completed SQ, then was supposed to finish the rest of my mods (2-9) right after SQ, except that higher ranking ex-reservists showed up the weekend of our SQ grad and took 5 of our spots on course, so I was taken off. I then did PAT stuff for awhile, trying to stay sane... In November, I was injured in the field during the phase 4 training for the officers (I was an MSVS driver attached to them) and severely damaged my ankle. I was in Physio from November up until June the next year, and they've given me injections as well...which had no effect and might have made it worse.

I was placed on a second TCAT after my injections and am now in the process of going in for bloodwork before my part 1 of my PCAT in November. I was told by the Nurse Practitioner that because I'm an untrained Private that a) I'd get no benefits at all or compensation for my injury if they decided to medical release me, and b) they wouldn't OT me to a different trade because I can't ruck or run longer than 5K.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand if i wasn't able to run at all or just was in horrible shape that they wouldn't put me in another trade, but I bench 200lbs, deadlift 350lbs, go to the gym 5 days a week and I'm in good shape, i just can't ruck or run long distances.

My question is, is what the NP said true? I was hoping someone with experience in this matter or someone who's dealt with this kind of stuff before can shed some light, I've been trying to hold it together for over 2 years rotting away on PAT and it's starting to wear on me, it doesn't help that we get treated like pieces of garbage either.

Thanks 

 

[shootemup604]

Umm, if you got motion sickness, armoured crewman might not be the job for you...

 

[OldSolduer]

You need to engage your chain of command.

 

[GR66]

I'd suggest dropping by your local IPSC.  They can help put you in touch with many resources that may be available to you as well as give information on the Release process should you end up going that route.

 

[Greenman]

Has anyone recently submitted their response back to DMCA asking for a retention? If so, what kind of turn around time did you have before getting an answer?

I know there are many many variables to each individual case, I am just curious what people are experiencing out there currently.

 

[MJP]

Has anyone recently submitted their response back to DMCA asking for a retention? If so, what kind of turn around time did you have before getting an answer?

I know there are many many variables to each individual case, I am just curious what people are experiencing out there currently.

I have helped staffed a few over the last 6-8 months.  All had varying return times but generally the more complex the file the longer it took.  Fastest was around the 2 month mark.  In every case I have seen in the past year if your trade is healthy and you don't have critical skills there is no retention being offered. 

 

[Greenman]

Perfect, thanks. I am almost up to the 2 month mark now. Should be soon

 

[OldSolduer]

Perfect, thanks. I am almost up to the 2 month mark now. Should be soon

You should be discussing this with your CoC. Just a polite suggestion.

 

[MJP]

You should be discussing this with your CoC. Just a polite suggestion.

What would he discuss?  Sounds like they he has been given disclosure and made his representation.  It takes time for DMCA to get responses back as they have to talk to other agencies, get their responses and formulate a decision.  They are swamped with files.  If it was time sensitive his unit Adjt could ask for where the file is right now/hasten it.  But in my experience his timelines are not out of whack.

 

[Greenman]

Yup, nothing to discuss at the time. Just as an FYI, I am a WO with 24 years served. I think I know when to engage my COC, at least I hope so.....

Thanks though.

 

[Goose]

So I've been off this site for literally, years, but I remember what a great reference and support network it was, so I figured I would give it a try. I have searched everywhere, and this seems like the most appropriate thread to link these questions of mine too- any help would be really appreciated! Here it goes;
I was a regular force member from 09-11, and was hurt in '10 during phase training. I went to the MIR probably a dozen times for this same injury, but it was unfortunately misdiagnosed. In '11 I component transferred to the PRES from the regs with an operation pending (same injury). I have been told since that I should have been retained until the surgery was over/injury resolved; but that just didnt happen. Anyways, had the surgery, which was unfortunately unsuccessful. Insert second surgery (all the while serving as PRES class A; re-educating on my own dime, and never being put on catergory or assessed by a MO since my CT. Second surgery was only a few months ago, but was never put on restrictions so off on EX, re-injured (sigh). Here I am now, with what will likely be a life-long injury (prognosis worsens with every operation...), and I feel like although the military HAS paid for the operations themselves, I'm kind of at a loss of what I should/can do. I have re-educated, and want to CT back to the regs in my new profession, but this bloody injury is still hanging over me. Was I even supposed to be released in the first place? Been trying to just suck it up for years now, but here I am 5 years later with the same problem, and no resources (not to mention that I can still hardly run/work out, or even do a full shift on my feet in my new career!). Any recommendations?????
Thanks for the time/consideration- again, I've got the BP and tactics down, but the rest of the army world is still largely mystery!